The Great Tyson Thread of 2016

So, what should we tyson next?

Here are some statistics to remind us of the current extremes of tysoning. Feel free to improve any of these stats:

Highest number of monsters killed in a tyson: 592. AV13 by Aqfaq.
Longest tyson: 2:51:09. AV20 by j4rio.
Hardest tyson ever done: Plutonia map 12 by j4rio?
Most herding: Plutonia map 29 by j4rio.
Most door abuse: AV13 (Can somebody count how many times a door was opened?)
Most bullets farmed: Plutonia map 32 by j4rio. How many bullets?
Most telefrags: ???
Most chainsaw: Plutonia map 28 by j4rio?

Most cybers stuck: 2 (Scythe map 23 by 4shockblast)

Most homing missile abuse: Scythe map 23 by 4hockblast?
Most switch abuse: ???
Most optimized tyson: ty01-041 by Xit Vono?
The best tyson TAS ever made: ???

----------------------------

Next we have a list of notable non-tysoned maps with estimated "SKILL LEVELS":

"DOABLE" maps don't seem to require more skill than anything that has been tysoned before. It doesn't mean they are easy, though. Nothing is easy here!
"INSANE" maps seem harder than anything that has been tysoned before.
"INSANE+" maps seem much harder than INSANE maps.
"TAS ONLY" maps can't be realistically tysoned by a human. j4rio can do them, though, so don't give up, there's always more cheese to be found.
"IMPOSSIBLE" maps can't be tysoned even with perfectly built input.
"???" Unknown difficulty. Feel free to give an opinion!

TNT
30 TAS ONLY.

THE PLUTONIA EXPERIMENT
30 TAS ONLY. TAS exists by Light_Speed.

HELL REVEALED
07 TAS ONLY.
12 INSANE+. Spider in a very bad location. Otherwise relatively simple compared to most other maps. Spider can get stuck by a lost soul, so this is definitely within human reach.
14 DOABLE. One cyber can be telefragged. The other cybers can be infighted to death. Mancubi must kill most of the windowed revenants. Otherwise we run out of bullets.
15 INSANE. Good infighting possibilities. Bullet farming needs to be done, so that the cybers can be killed.
16 INSANE+. Not as hard as most HR maps. Good infighting possibilities.
17 INSANE+. Not as hard as most HR maps. Good infighting possibilities.
18 INSANE+. With incredible infight planning and patience, this might actually work. The cyber must stay alive so that it can kill the tower arch-viles.
19 INSANE. Arch-viles can kill the cyber and the spider.
20 INSANE+.
22 TAS ONLY.
23 TAS ONLY.
24 TAS ONLY.
26 TAS ONLY? Cyber can kill the ghosts?
27 TAS ONLY.
28 INSANE+. Arch-viles can kill the cybers?
29 TAS ONLY?
30 TAS ONLY.
31 TAS ONLY.
32 TAS ONLY. Maybe the hardest tyson map on the list, but should be doable by an experienced TASer.

SCYTHE
24 DOABLE? Again, berserk exists, and there's a lot of infighting opportunity and tons of room unlike map 23. The mancs in the cages towards the north of the map might be hard to take out as they don't infight with anything easily. Revs from the west of the map can be brought down the lift and infought with everything else.
25 INSANE/DOABLE? Lots of arach punching that's probably unavoidable since the monsters in the map won't provide enough support from infighting (cyber also needs to be punched, but there's enough space for that). No bullets on the map other than backpacks, but you do get berserk.
26 INSANE. I mean, infighting can go a long way here, but how would you deal with the three cyber triplets on the key ledges? Berserk would be insane, and there's not much ammo, and there's five more cybers in addition to those. Doesn't seem likely, but maybe I'm underestimating the amount of damage everything else can do to the cybers.
27 INSANE. Haven't looked at this map heavily, much of it seems doable but the cyber triplet is basically INSANE+ territory, and there's tons of archviles everywhere. Punching the three cybers is out of the question I think, it's possible to infight them with the archviles in the red key room opposite, but it wouldn't be easy isolating those archviles as a bunch of monsters spawn in that room. Would need some serious and clever routing to make this in any way reasonable.
28 DOABLE. Already done with 81% kills. 100% should be possible?
29 INSANE+ Maybe through a bunch of clever infights this could be done?
30 TAS ONLY

MEMENTO MORI
05 INSANE+. Arachnotron needs to kill some imps. Otherwise we run out of bullets.
08 DOABLE. It requires some clever infights and baron punching without berserk, but j4rio has already done harder maps than this one, so it should be doable.
18 DOABLE. Cyberdemon531 had 2 monsters left.
23 TAS ONLY?
25 DOABLE? What a strange map...
26 DOABLE? Berserk and invulnerability are available, which suggests this is doable?
28 DOABLE? TAS exists by Cyberdemon531. Learn from it.
29 DOABLE. Almost done, but Cyberdemon531 got unfairly rekt in the end.
30 TAS ONLY.
31 DOABLE.
32 DOABLE?

MEMENTO MORI II
16 HAAAARD. TAS exists by vdgg. Learn from it and prosper!
19 DOABLE.
20 DOABLE. Best attempt: 104/112 kills by Aqfaq.
21 TAS ONLY, because of the two cybers on a pedestal & the caco-filled exit room.
22 DOABLE. TAS exists.
25 DOABLE. There are plenty of bullets! Cyber and mancubi can be shot!
26 ??? Maybe doable, because there is a berserk kit and two invulnerabilities.
27 ??? Berserk and invulnerability suggest this is doable.
28 DOABLE. Berserking + tons of bullets. Don't take the invulnerability! Leave it for the arch-vile in the last room!
30 TAS only.

ALIEN VENDETTA
11 INSANE. If the arch-vile can kill the cyberdog, then this should be possible. There are plenty of bullets, at least 500-600.
14 DOABLE. The timed door trap at the blue key can be avoided. The pit cybers can be trapped with the lift. Fast doors are available as riot shields. You MUST NOT shoot at the red key area until you get the key.
16 TAS ONLY. There are six cyberdemons in a single room?
17 INSANE. High level of patience required for safely punching gigatons of revenants through pillars. A successful run might take about 2-3 hours. If you practice killing the last arch-viles safely, then this should be doable.
18 ??? 639 monsters.
19 INSANE. 268 monsters. Berserk available. A TAS exists by Azuruish. Maybe the arch-vile can kill most of the arachnotrons safely?
23 INSANE. 158 monsters. Berserk available. Are there enough bullets to kill the big spider? If there are, then this might be doable.
24 DOABLE. Best attempt: 134/143 kills by Aqfaq.
25 TAS ONLY. 1325 monsters.
26 TAS ONLY. 964 monsters.
27 TAS ONLY. 838 monsters.
28 TAS ONLY. 304 monsters.
29 TAS ONLY. 346 monsters.
30 TAS ONLY?
31 TAS ONLY.
32 INSANE+. The first half of the map is doable. Can we find a safe strategy for the second half? Maybe arch-viles can kill the cybers? TAS exists by Clumsydoomer.

REQUIEM
07 DOABLE. Get good arachnotron/hellknight infights.
09 DOABLE. Git gud.
12 DOABLE.
15 DOABLE. Berserk tells me this is doable.
18 DOABLE? Berserk is available.
19 DOABLE? We have chainsaw for the spiders. We can also farm bullets.
21 INSANE+. No berserk? The cyber is a big problem.
22 DOABLE. Hard arachnotrons, though.
23 INSANE+. Ghost SS soldiers and cybers. Do some other maps first, then we'll talk.
27 DOABLE. You need to punch some barons in the middle of the level. The rest is easy infighting. The final spider is easily shot from the pit.
29 INSANE.

SCYTHE II
14 DOABLE. The arch-vile can damage the cyber nicely. Together with other infights and bullets, no punches are required for the cyber.
15 INSANE. The final room is cruel. Otherwise the map is relatively simple.
17 INSANE. Nothing special, you just need to be about as good as j4rio.
18 DOABLE. A short cyber/mancubi punch-out. Arch-vile helps.
20 TAS ONLY. Unless you find a safe strategy for killing the last two cybers.
22 DOABLE. Cyber is no problem as the ledge revenants can safely hit its tall head. If you can punch mancubi, then go for it!
23 TAS ONLY. The blue key trap can be escaped, but the final area just can't be done by any human.
24 TAS ONLY.
25 TAS ONLY.
26 DOABLE.
27 TAS ONLY.
28 TAS ONLY.
29 TAS ONLY.
30 TAS ONLY.
31 DOABLE? Only 8 monsters. Berserk is available. TAS exists by Azuruish.
32 INSANE? Good infights and bullet farming are available.

PERDITION'S GATE
25 DOABLE? It seems like it should be easy, but the barons, PE, and archvile complicate things significantly. Punching the barons in such tight spaces is really hard, and infighting them is also really hard because there isn't much space to maneuver so you just need to hope the cacos go up there and shoot quickly. PE starts spawning souls quickly, and with little cover and so many monsters around, it's hard to isolate it to get rid of it. If you get the archvile stuck on the bottom step, you can punch it from below, but that requires luck.
29 INSANE+. You can infight start monsters and I guess you get decent amount of ammo, but there's still a lot of bullshit to deal with and little health until the megasphere after the mastermind. With enough luck and routing, maybe this could be done.
30 TAS ONLY? Well, you can walk around the crusher trigger that kills the player at 2 minutes and punch the demons at the start, but then you have two cybers and an AV, no chainsaw or berserk. You can get both cybers stuck on lowering ledges, making it easy to punch them out, but monsters constantly spawn into that room. With TAS, it would be trivial to manipulate RNG such that all the monsters spawning there are either weak (demons, imps, etc.) or too big to be positioned in the spawn spots as they are very close to the wall, but without TAS, you'd need a lot of luck, and it would still be troublesome to deal with the AV. Alternatively, you could infight the AV with a cyber, but you'd then need to hide somewhere and the only spot available is the hallway towards the exit, but going in there triggers a crusher that kills the player (unless you get lucky and skip it).

HELL REVEALED II
03 DOABLE/INSANE. We must remain silent after pressing the first switch. This way we can infight the imps one by one using HK and arachnotron. Alternative strategy is to run to the big horde of zombiemen, kill them and let the two HKs kill the imps. There is little health, so the start area requires lucky grinding. After the imps, we should lure the zombiemen out from the warehouse room, so that we can harvest ~200 bullets from them. The rest is simple, because we can use monster blocking linedefs to punch barons and revenants easily.
08 INSANE+. Congestion clusterfuck.
09 TAS ONLY.
11 INSANE+. We need to make two linedef skips: in and out of the exit room trap. If not, surviving the exit room is TAS only stuff.
13 INSANE. Surprisingly, not as hard as it seems. There are many spots that allow good infights. The monsters are pretty well contained. Tower arch-vile can torch the baron houses. If you have the patience, you can run around and exhaust the revenant army one by one. Imps and spider mothers cancel each other out.
14 INSANE+. Arch-vile can harvest an extra ~500 bullets from chaingunners. The cyberdogs clear out most of the sheep. The cyberdogs themselves can be telefragged with incredible luck. The caged revenants require insane patience and skill.
15 TAS ONLY.
16 TAS ONLY.
17 TAS ONLY.
18 TAS ONLY.
19 TAS ONLY.
20 DOABLE. There are plenty of bullets. Cybers can be shot and infighted to death. Just plan the bullet usage and this will be relatively easy. The first cyber has two possible teleport destinations. I don't know which one is better.
21 INSANE. Berserk, a plenty of bullets, a fast door riot shield. What else do you need? Oh, you need to keep the cyberdoge alive! The cyberdoge needs to kill as much as possible, otherwise the run gets nearly impossible to finish. So, you need expert herding skills. Woah, this is a very unusual setting... You actually need to PROTECT a cyberdoge to succeed! Go for it! :D
22 DOABLE.
24 TAS ONLY.
25 DOABLE. Careful bullet harvesting and infights make this an easy two-hour map.
26 TAS ONLY.
27 TAS ONLY.
28 TAS ONLY.
29 TAS ONLY.
30 TAS ONLY.
31 TAS ONLY.
32 TAS ONLY.

KAMASUTRA
08 ???
10 ???
13 ???
14 DOABLE. Fredrik says: "If you camp around the central horseshoe structure, pretty much everything dies to infighting. Two cyberdemons and a spider mastermind need to be killed with berserk + 900 bullets. One cyberdemon and the spider can both be killed safely with the pistol. The last cyberdemon is in a decent location for punching (perhaps it makes sense to kill it first of all?). If you get very lucky with the infighting, bullets might last all the way (e.g. arachnotrons might kill the spider)."
17 ???
18 DOABLE. Fredrik says: "There are something like 700 bullets available to begin with, which is enough to take out the two annoyingly placed cyberdemons and the two tower revenants, provided that the cyberdemons have been softened up by infighting and some punches with the invulnerability. The third cyberdemon usually dies to infighting. On top of that, the archvile + zombieman inside the train can be farmed forever, if needed. The archvile near the blue skull switch also potentially allows farming, but I'm not sure if there's a consistent setup for it. The nukage arachnotrons can potentially walk into the teleporters which allows telefragging them. However, bullet farming seems faster than waiting for that to happen... Everything else looks reasonable, considering that there's a berserk, plenty of health, and corners to hide behind."
19 ???
20 ???
21 ???
22 ???
23 ???
24 ???
25 ???
26 ???
27 ???
28 ???
29 ???
30 ???
31 ???
32 ???

ICARUS
09 INSANE. Can you punch five cacodemons in a small room?
14 INSANE.
16 DOABLE. Bullets kill the cyberdog.
17 DOABLE?
18 DOABLE? It's a puzzle game. With the fast doors we can farm bullets safely?
20 ???
21 ???
23 ???
24 ???
25 ???
26 ???
27 ???
28 ???
30 ???
31 ???

2002ADO
E1M8 DOABLE?
E2M2 DOABLE.
E2M3 DOABLE.
E2M4 DOABLE.
E2M5 DOABLE.
E2M6 DOABLE.
E2M7 DOABLE.
E2M9 DOABLE? A rather tricky cyberdogemon location... or is it?
E3M2 DOABLE.
E3M3 INSANE? Can we survive the last room?
E3M4 DOABLE.
E3M5 DOABLE.
E3M6 DOABLE.
E3M7 DOABLE.
E3M8 DOABLE? We have bullets for one cyber. With some luck, the second cyber and the spider cancel each other out.
E4M2 DOABLE.
E4M3 DOABLE.
E4M4 DOABLE.
E4M5 DOABLE.
E4M6 DOABLE? The cyber seems a bit tricky.
E4M7 DOABLE.
E4M8 TAS ONLY? First we have a cyber in a tiny cellar and only about 200 bullets. Then we have two cybers in the final room and no bullets.
E5M1 DOABLE.


(I'll update the list and statistics when new tysons are made or new information is delivered by a tyson "scientist". Feel free to contribute. If you are a mod, feel free to edit this post as you wish!)

Edited by Aqfaq
update

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MM2 opinion.
MAP25 is easiest, I need bullets for 2 pain elementals which are out of reach and rather invisible, and the cyber is not too infightable, a caco fireball can be lured towards the door, you open the door, caco fireball hits the cyber and you can punch around 1000 HP off. So you need these ~450 bullets (margin for missed shots etc.). You have them.
MAP27 is actually very tricky in spite of easy berserk. One fight which gives me headache is the isolated mountain fight with tons of cacos. There's no blue armor (this can be obtained by shooting SSG which is not allowed), and there are many arachnotrons which need bullets no matter what (they seem too powerful compared to monsters that suround them).
You didn't cover MAP16... I think I got to the chainsaw once legitimately, so who knows? But it's haaaard (no health).

MM
MAP08 - doable?? Hehe, just try it and switch it to insane+. I had serious problems with TASing it.
MAP14 is indeed possible and MAP29 seems the easiest.
EDIT. MAP16 has the infamous caged baron room by the exit which makes me wonder

Requiem
I tried MAP15 and it has some very hairy situations (arachnotron in a tiny room, for example), it's much harder than rt06 or rt17 but possible.

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Aqfaq said:

Most bullets farmed: Maybe AV13? (Can somebody count?)


3 people like this

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khhh... Seems like someone really interested to watch 2-4 hours of tyson demos.

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Aqfaq said:

THE PLUTONIA EXPERIMENT
30 TAS ONLY.

That's a great idea actually, I should try it, lol, although I assume it's gonna be a huge pain in every part of body.
PS: The pictures are hilarious

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I had an MM 18 tyson demo that got to 2 monsters left before. Totally doable.

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Wouldn't consider myself a Tyson expert by any means, but I'll give some input on the wads I'm familiar with:

Scythe
23 INSANE/DOABLE? You get berserk and can relatively comfortably infight/punch most monsters in the map, though there is little cover and health. The two cybers are the biggest problem; there's not very much that can infight them, and you don't have real hiding spots available as there's no doors or closets or monster blocking linedefs. You can isolate each cyber to punch them individually in the large area, but punching two cybers in a bumpy area is not something I want to try.
24 DOABLE? Again, berserk exists, and there's a lot of infighting opportunity and tons of room unlike map 23. The mancs in the cages towards the north of the map might be hard to take out as they don't infight with anything easily. Revs from the west of the map can be brought down the lift and infought with everything else.
25 INSANE/DOABLE? Lots of arach punching that's probably unavoidable since the monsters in the map won't provide enough support from infighting (cyber also needs to be punched, but there's enough space for that). No bullets on the map other than backpacks, but you do get berserk.
26 INSANE I mean, infighting can go a long way here, but how would you deal with the three cyber triplets on the key ledges? Berserk would be insane, and there's not much ammo, and there's five more cybers in addition to those. Doesn't seem likely, but maybe I'm underestimating the amount of damage everything else can do to the cybers.
27 INSANE Haven't looked at this map heavily, much of it seems doable but the cyber triplet is basically INSANE+ territory, and there's tons of archviles everywhere. Punching the three cybers is out of the question I think, it's possible to infight them with the archviles in the red key room opposite, but it wouldn't be easy isolating those archviles as a bunch of monsters spawn in that room. Would need some serious and clever routing to make this in any way reasonable.
28 Already done ;). Edit: of course, it follows the max convention with 81% kills being max, 100% kills requires too much precision and is too annoying, though would be possible as well.
29 INSANE+ Maybe through a bunch of clever infights this could be done? Dunno, I haven't even considered trying to route it given all the cybers and archviles in this map.
30 TAS ONLY

Perdition's Gate
12 DOABLE Either with slow enough cheese strats or efficient berserking, this shouldn't be too crazy. Just seemed like it would be annoying and unfun to me, so I didn't give it too many attempts.
25 DOABLE? It seems like it should be easy, but the barons, PE, and archvile complicate things significantly. Punching the barons in such tight spaces is really hard, and infighting them is also really hard because there isn't much space to maneuver so you just need to hope the cacos go up there and shoot quickly. PE starts spawning souls quickly, and with little cover and so many monsters around, it's hard to isolate it to get rid of it. If you get the archvile stuck on the bottom step, you can punch it from below, but that requires luck and there's still everything else to deal with.
26 DOABLE Probably the easiest out of the leftover ones for this wad, not hard to infight baron and manc at the start after which everything else can be dealt with bullets and infighting as there's a lot of ammo. Only hard part is archvile/baron towards the end, rushing would be quite luck-based, though it is possible to lure out the AV and pistol him somewhere else in the map. Afterwards, berserk makes what little is left of the map trivial.
27 INSANE/DOABLE? Tons of ammo but super cramped and has a lot of tough monsters (barons, cyber, archvile, mancs, PEs, revs, etc.). Infighting and pistoling can probably take everything out, but it would be quite tedious and some of the infights would be annoying to get. Not entirely sure about this one.
29 INSANE+ You can infight start monsters and I guess you get decent amount of ammo, but there's still a lot of bullshit to deal with and little health until the megasphere after the mastermind. With enough luck and routing, maybe this could be done.
30 TAS ONLY? Well, you can walk around the crusher trigger that kills the player at 2 minutes and punch the demons at the start, but then you have two cybers and an AV, no chainsaw or berserk. You can get both cybers stuck on lowering ledges, making it easy to punch them out, but monsters constantly spawn into that room. With TAS, it would be trivial to manipulate RNG such that all the monsters spawning there are either weak (demons, imps, etc.) or too big to be positioned in the spawn spots as they are very close to the wall, but without TAS, you'd need a lot of luck, and it would still be troublesome to deal with the AV. Alternatively, you could infight the AV with a cyber, but you'd then need to hide somewhere and the only spot available is the hallway towards the exit, but going in there triggers a crusher that kills the player (unless you get lucky and skip it).

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4shockblast said:

Scythe
23 INSANE/DOABLE?


Possible to get a cyber stuck on the step leading to the exit? Or is that too small?

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Cyberdemon531 said:

Possible to get a cyber stuck on the step leading to the exit? Or is that too small?


If you can get him to that location, yeah, it's possible, but he has to be pretty close to the exit platform. There's practically no time to run from there to the switch to raise the step, so you'd probably have to get him asleep in the correct spot or something, but it seems far-fetched to get that to work.

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Thanks for the info on Scythe and Perdition's gate, 4shockblast!

Interestingly, j4rio completed a map that I had marked "TAS ONLY", so anything is possible. It is sometimes very hard to say what map is difficult, because there may be hidden cheese. Just keep sniffing around.

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Paul977 said:

HR 30 possible with TAS ? I'd like to see it :)

Actually it's not...
Also for me these maps which marked as 'TAS only' are actually impossible too. More of them hasn't berserk pack. Fighting with Cyberdemon without berserk pack... Yay.. WHat a fun show.. Pheh...

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Yes, some "TAS ONLY" maps might be impossible, but that needs to be proven with a highly accurate TAS that fails even with perfectly planned route, infights and bullet usage. I personally think there are very few impossible maps on the list. If there is an arch-vile that can reach a single zombieman/chaingunner, then any map should be doable in a TAS. With TAS precision you can farm infinite ammo.

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I don't see how demo not being fun (for the one building it) makes it impossible.

HR 30 TAS seems fairly easy with correct strategies and some dedication put into it. It's MAP30 and it's TAS - you can use the IoS spawns to your benefit and you can make them whatever you want to.

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I just got 116 kills on m219 without any preparation, I say it is easy, just very long, so I'm not THAT interested. Aqfaq, it's easier than rt27 and similar to rt27, would you try? For elevator strategy watch Eugene's demo or my UV Speed demo or check doomwiki. So m219<m225<m227 in terms of difficulty (my current opionion), all three doable and then m227<<<m216,m222 etc. No idea about m220, seems on the harder side, with "running out of bullets" being the most likely result.

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Keyboard_Doomer said:

I don't see how demo not being fun (for the one building it) makes it impossible.

HR 30 TAS seems fairly easy with correct strategies and some dedication put into it. It's MAP30 and it's TAS - you can use the IoS spawns to your benefit and you can make them whatever you want to.


Mmm fairly easy ? Romero head is reachable with AVs jump only I presume and you have to kill the 4 arch-viles at the elevator switch, so you have to use arch-viles spawned or if you use the arch-viles at the start you have to hope everything dies to infight while you stay on the Romero spot.
But I'm not TAS expert so maybe is possible who knows

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I'm not a TAS expert either (well, I actually can't really do TAS at all) but there is a cyberdemon you can get on the lift and make it infight with a cacodemon so it hits Romero as the lift goes up (At least it seems possible from my noob perspective. If not you could also do the AVJ you mentioned and dodge cyber's rocket so they go in.). Seems like it's not possible to end the map with only 2 rockets so you'd need some added RNG manipulation to get 3 rockets in. The whole demo seems like a RNG manipulation fest. As I said it would require some real dedication.

It would be a really crazy demo, I would like to see it :)

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vdgg said:

Aqfaq, it's easier than rt27 and similar to rt27, would you try?

Thanks for the tip. I'm currently not on my "Doom mode", but maybe I'll look at m219 someday, unless somebody else does it first (which I hope, because it is nice to watch you all play!). There are nearly 200 maps still untysoned in the DSDA Top 20 wads, so don't worry, I'll definitely try something someday, anyway.

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I think I would put av20 in the insane category. It's definitely possible, but should be harder than anything I've done.

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Is Scythe II map 31 really doable? I don't think so. yeah, there are only 8 monsters + berserk but you know that those 8 are super crazy and will fry anyone's ass, so is it really possible to tyson it without TAS? if it is, I'd love to see it :)

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Yousuf Anik said:

Is Scythe II map 31 really doable? I don't think so. yeah, there are only 8 monsters + berserk but you know that those 8 are super crazy and will fry anyone's ass, so is it really possible to tyson it without TAS? if it is, I'd love to see it :)

250-750 potential pistol damage vs. 800 monster health. Even I'd be able to punch the last plasmadick out with perfect RNG, haha.

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Plasmadicks have 250 HP not 100. Also, obviously, 750 damage with 50 bullets is unrealistic non-TAS but don't forget these guys drop clips.

Anyway, I just wanted to say I love how plasmadicks is a widely used name for them.

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Well... I just checked that map... I can say it quite hardcore even for me but i can try.

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I did some testing with Hell Revealed II map 03. It is doable, but requires some patience. Just remain silent after the first switch and let HK and arachnotron kill the imps one by one. The start area is the hardest part, the rest is easy by todays standards.

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Aqfaq said:

TNT
30 TAS ONLY.

I don't know how hard it is to chainsaw the cyb, but that's the only hard area of the map, in the exit room you can just teleport in-out until a vile spawns, of course after telefragging the barons and not shooting.

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