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Aqfaq

The Great Tyson Thread of 2016

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Another certainly doable one is ksutra map14. If you camp around the central horseshoe structure, pretty much everything dies to infighting. Two cyberdemons and a spider mastermind need to be killed with berserk + 900 bullets. One cyberdemon and the spider can both be killed safely with the pistol. The last cyberdemon is in a decent location for punching (perhaps it makes sense to kill it first of all?). If you get very lucky with the infighting, bullets might last all the way (e.g. arachnotrons might kill the spider).

Gusta said:

I think that all ksutra maps have berserk (+ lot of power up) but I am afraid that it's too much of luxury and those maps are way too easy for these crazy guys :-)

Yeah, lots of turret monsters and blocking lines make life hard on the remaining maps though...

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So, who can find applications for the impse glide? My humble conjecture is that at least one impossible map becomes trivially easy to do with the impse glide.

4shockblast's stunning cyber ass-punching tactics are also something that should be taken into serious consideration everywhere. Maybe similar approach can help dealing with some tricky arachnotrons and mancubi somewhere? Keep in mind that with revenant missiles we can distract almost any monster anywhere, even if it requires opening doors or ascending stairs. Too bad the homing missile does not go through teleports.
 

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Some strat dumps and difficulty corrections for runs that I'm not likely to do at this point:

  • Regarding perdgate map 29, the cyber stuck strats make it quite doable; you can get the cyber infighting with a revenant from above and get it stuck in a corner very easily. Rest of the map is not bad as you get a lot of bullets and infight opportunities. 25 still looks to be annoying as fuck at best (though short), and 30 still seems TAS only.
  • I'd say Scythe map 27 is possible with the cyber strats. Most of the map is punchable, the one cyber in the library area is infightable with the revenant that's stuck on the key pillar near the exit room (although I couldn't get it stuck when I tried). The three cybers are also possible to get infighting with the secret soul sphere revenant, although that's a really long way to lure a rev rocket, and I can't do it consistently. It is possible to get them infighting with the rev across diagonally, though, and they have a hard time hitting it, so I suspect you could get all three of them distracted, then lure away the rev with a pistol shot without requiring too much luck. Also, I should note that the strafejump at the start is very useful here as it allows an easy archvile telefrag. Don't have anything new for the rest of the undone maps.

I also looked at Sunder Tyson about a year ago. I did 1 pretty easily, the other ones that look promising are 4 and 7. 4 is almost certainly possible, although you are likely to run out of bullets for snipers, so you might need some luck with infighting there. 7 is a rough one and doesn't have a ton of bullets, but you can infight a large portion of the map, you get a berserk, and one line skip allows you to avoid being locked in the second-to-last area, which gives you a lot more room for infighting. I'd still not label it as anything lower than INSANE+, but maybe it's not TAS only?

Edited by 4shockblast : note about strafejump on sc27

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Hey guys, Hell Revealed II map 25 is actually very easy to tyson, if you have the patience. In the first area, everything will kill themselves for free. After the infights, shoot some spiders so that you can reach the pentagram teleport safely. In the next area, lure some imps out one by one and punch them to make more room to maneuver around the arch-viles and revenants. Then just maneuver around the arch-viles and revenants. Grab the megasphere and run through the next area straight to the teleport, and pick up some bullets on the way. At the red key room, get rid of the three free-roaming revenants by punching them one by one or by luring them to the barons who can kill them for you. After the three revenants are dead, we are completely safe, because of monster-blocking lines. If you survived this far, you can probably complete the map now with a pretty high success rate. Just let the chaingunners kill as many revenants as possible. Shoot the remaining revenants, release the arch-viles and harvest a ton of bullets. Let the hell knights kill the arch-vile in the watch tower. Shoot the three hell knights to make the watch tower safe. Next you must do a quick red key rush. Get the red key, release all the hell knights from the red door and run to the safety of the bridge. Let arch-viles kill as many hell knights as possible. Harvest more bullets as you see fit, but avoid getting hit by chaingunners. Barons kill the arch-viles in the pit for free. Nothing hard has been done so far, mostly just infights and bullet harvesting. After all arch-viles die, shoot the remaining hell knights, and then do a few rounds around the teleporters to get the yellow key. Do a few fast teleports through the pentagrams to initiate infights so that the cyberdemon kills everything. Open the yellow door and quickly run to the switch. Then run back where you came from. Now you can harvest even more bullets by opening and closing the yellow door. We can probably harvest more than 5000 bullets on the map. This means we can shoot all the spiders. There are monster-blocking lines everywhere, so we are completely safe, and the arch-vile can easily kill the cyber that blocks the switch, if we don't want to use bullets on the cyber. The rest is just some easy infights and cleaning up the remaining spiders. This map is actually easy, even though it seems impossible at the first glance. It will require patience, though, because the run will take about two hours with all the infights and bullet harvesting.

Edited by Aqfaq

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AV

17 DOABLE. Get cyber stuck.

There is a better way - it's very easy to safely punch cyber through gap in it's cage.

But is there realistic strat for pinky pit? Pistol them?

 

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Agreed. AV 17 is easy. You can position yourself so that one of the chaingunners kills the cyber. The best method I found was to first let the cyber shoot some rockets at you, so that the chaingunners get aggroed. Do not attack, so that the barons remain asleep. No, wait. Actually, let the cyber kill the barons first. Then get the chainers aggroed to the cyber. It takes some easy grinding to succeed, but it is worth it so that you don't need to kill the barons yourself and it makes the start of the run much faster.

Yes, I think the slime pit pinkies need to be shot. The other pinkies can be punched with berserk after everything else have been killed.

My test run took about 90 minutes. Much shorter than I expected. I can do it sometime next year, if nobody has done it by then.

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HRII Map11 is possible without any skips.

Just save invul and mega for last room.

Invul time is enough to punch all monsters except one of the two last avs.

But with mega (or even soul sphere) it's not a problem even if it resurrects something.

 

AV Map19 is quite j4rio-doable.

Arachnotron room is the only problematic part. Needs a lot of patience.

But second half of the map is easy. Cyber kills all the rest and get killed by the last av.

 

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HRII Map11

Lol, it turned out preventing last room door closing is trivially easy, 100% relaible. No need to save anything.

Just go forward after the teleport. SR40 is more than enough.

I'll try to do it this week.

 

Edited by GrumpyCat

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Great find, GrumpyCat. Interesting to see how you can manage with that map. It is not going to be easy even with that trick.

 

I filled in a rough estimate for most of the Kamasutra maps. Feel free to improve the accuracy of my estimations.

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I spent about 6 hours on m219 and about 30 minutes on m220.

 

m219 is NOT very interesting IMO. Just slowly Berserk your way to the exit, what the deal; and the amount of bullets is very comfortable. However, I encountered a big showstopper: a lone mancubus, thing 200, enclosed in a 256X144 room with a lift going up to this room and a closed door behind the mancubus. In Eugene's Max demo it's at 5:45. I got to that manc 6 times, sometimes with >100% health and some blue armor left, and survived zero times. After that manc there are many more ways to die, but at least they are varied :)

 

m220 is harder IMO, much more interesting, meta-gamey, as a non-berserk map with not enough ammo. Aqfaq's demo helped in a way that I got pretty far on my very first try. But it is hard, I'm not interested in saving every single bullets while you still need good luck, especially with the cyber-arachnotron pair, you want the arachnotron to survive as long as possible. So I may be trying this once in a while, waiting for luck, but rather not spending too much time: too frustrating.

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Update:

ALIEN VENDETTA
25 DOABLE. The map has 1325 monsters, but no worries. Just be careful who to release and when. All monsters pretty much cancel each other out. Monsters can't open fast doors, so we are completely safe. Cybers can be telefragged in the dark tunnel, if we need to. The last room is hard, but we can harvest bullets for that, if necessary. With invulnerability we can probably initiate infights, so that the arch-viles kill the three lava pit cybers. We can save the invulnerabilities for the hardest parts. My test run had all invulnerabilities still available to the very end. Estimated completion time will be less than three hours. Something like 2:30 would be a good time.

 

As for AV17, I'm not going to do it. I'll take a break.

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I know nothing about that, but here is a demonstration of how to kill the cyber in AV map 17 in 1:30. Both chaingunners shoot it for great damage per second.

av17t-cyber-kill.zip

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4 hours ago, Bloodite Krypto said:

What's a reliable method of chainsawing Arachnotrons? Their hitboxes are so awkward.. Any good demos to demonstrate? :)

Whenever I've tried to chainsaw an arachnotron, I rely on getting it stuck by getting "into" its hitbox. That allows you to chainsaw it continuously, so on average it should be faster than gradually whittling away at it, even though sometimes it takes a while to get it stuck. 

 

Here's a demonstration wad, demo, and video:

 

 

This one was really lucky/fast.

 

Whether you can get it stuck depends on where it is relative to the blockmap, and how you approach it. An expert (@RjY?) can describe the specific details. But it's possible to plan a setup for it and lure it to spots where it can be stuck, using floor textures or other landmarks to guide you.

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Keep aiming for outer parts of hitbox when further away, or directly into the center of its hitbox when you manage to get inside of it. Because chainsaw changes your angle after each successful hit, try constantly rotating to sides when sawing.

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18 hours ago, rdwpa said:

An expert (@RjY?) can describe the specific details.

Thank you, I'll do my best☺. As noted there are two things to consider: blockmap squares and intercepts.

 

1. For collision purposes the arachnotron only exists in one blockmap square, that is the one containing its centre point. So to move inside the monster's bounding box you want its centre near to the edge of a square. You can then move inside the parts of it that are not in the same square. As you know, blockmap squares can be made visible on the automap by pressing 'g'.

 

2. Line attack (hitscan) collisions with a mobj are tested by intersection with one of the two imaginary diagonal lines across the opposing corners of the mobj. Thus for your saw (modelled as a 64-unit line attack from the player's centre) to make contact with the arachnotron it must reach far enough into it to touch a diagonal. As @j4rio notes, this is easier if you aim for the corners of the square, but unfortunately a successful hit resets your angle to point at the monster's centre.

 

ATB4kXV.png

In this automap view there is a ⊠ over each ▹ to show bounding boxes and intercept diagonals. So a bit cluttered, but hopefully you can see the arachnotron (white)'s centre point (where the intercepts cross) is just to the right (~1 pixel, unfortunately) of the dark blue blockmap division lines as the player (green) is attacking it from the left, allowing the player bounding box to overlap the arachnotron almost completely. You can also see the four red blood splats going diagonally across the intercepts.

 

JT2iERV.gif

chainsaw_v_arachnotron_at_specific_blockmap_offsets.wad

A small level with three arachnotrons trapped in 128x128 squares, the leftmost is aligned with the blockmap, the centre is 32 off from it, and the third is 64 units away; note the ease with which the latter can be chainsawed compared with the first two. A demo is included (-playdemo demo1).

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6 minutes ago, RjY said:

(stuff)

I really like these demonstrations :D

 

While I was doing this run, I always think there's a spot for you to Chainsaw these hard-to-chainsaw monsters, so I always go around the SMM to search that spot, but I seems not. Do you mind doing a SMM version of this map?

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