VeryHard (New 7 level WAD)

[CrazyDoomguy]

Finaly I have finished my seven level WAD!!! That is my first serious WAD with dehacked parametrization. It was very mazy, I had a lot question...



Here is my description ans story:

I have made adrenaline hard WAD and it's called VeryHard. This WAD is probably harder than chillax, but don’t worry, is not impossible because I tested this WAD with level UV and it passable. Hard, but passable. Thinking job is necessary, because you need find tricks. If your skill not enough, then I have made difficult setting.

A story:

Marine is in a strange place, it seems he is near the gate to paradise.

Angel - “You can’t enter into paradise, because you have many sin”.
Marine - “I will better stay here behind the gate, than going to hell”
Angel - “You haven’t chance to stay here because you haven’t a magic power to stand in this place. You will soon fall down”
Marine - “You fucking bastard, I have a lot of sin because you haven’t destroyed hell! If you destroy hell, you don’t meet people with any sin! ”
Angel - “We need forthright people”
Marine - “Ah, what!? You are just cheap Pussy because you are weak for beating hell!!! Where is god!!?? I want to speak with him!!! I show you, that you are a pussy!!!”
Angel - “Calm down, I see you weren’t in the courtroom. You need visit courtroom before come to gate”
Marine - “Why you didn’t tell me in the very beginning?!”
Angel - “God await for you on courtroom”
Marine - “Lead me to courtroom!!”
Courtroom
God - “Welcome”, “I have analyzed your story and you know a answer, but you have a request. Can you tell for all your requests?”
Marine - “I’m sad… I supposed, that I come to hell… my request was a weapon that I can beat the demons, when I going to hell. I will fight to the death!!!”
God - “You will get a weapon and you will get a magic “Russian skill”. With Russian skill you might pass most hard part in the hell.”, “For you stand seven parts that you need a pass. If you pass all parts, you will get an entry to the paradise”
Marine - “What happen if I lost?”
God - “Trust a power Russian skill and trust me”

Final story you can read, if you pass level 7.

Level 1 "Metro" - Interesting map but need be hard for surviving.



Level 2 "Short Death" - On beginning you will get shock, but is passable. Need think strategy.



Level 3 "Underworld" - My favourite map. Here is my test video with save and load https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRL4D60iCy0



Level 4 - Like original IGTH "Im going to hell", but I have add smal antishortcut and texture. Here is information about IGTH https://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/87689-hard-wad-igth-1-map/



Level 5 "Annihilator" - On beginning you will shock, but it possible :) Smal map, but hard. You will see soon new trap, it not like teleport and trought wall. Small solving Video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N-VEEb25GA



Level 6 "Archvile Cathedral" - most hard level. Invulnerability cant save you... so you need find another support. You can find this support, if you study map carefully. Small solving Video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hOkrgpmLfM



Level 7 "White Marble" - Download Map and look self :)

(7MB) IDGAMES DOWNLOAD

Good luck.

If you see some problem, inform me.

[Ribbiks]

hi there. guessing this is zdoom only? it crashes prb+

[CrazyDoomguy]

Ribbiks said:

hi there. guessing this is zdoom only? it crashes prb+

Yes, I tested only on zdoom 2.8.1

I dont know how work on other format...

[Koros]

yaqxsw said:

This WAD is probably harder than chillax, but don’t worry, is not impossible because I tested this WAD with level UV and it passable.

**Looks at screenshot level 4 & level 7 of you in god mode**

http://www.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/doom0005rbd15hz39k.png


Beatable my ass. You were obviously cheating in every screenshot. You have full health, ammo, and godmode in the 3rd & last screenshot. I just tried out like 3 of your maps trying to get through it. Its not even possible. You cant say that its beatable and have screenshots of you using cheats like godmode and the "give all" cheat. It's disingenuous.

I do however, like the layout and map of the first level.... But trying to get through this without a weapons mod and without cheats.... I really don't see it being possible.

[CrazyDoomguy]

Jimp Argon said:

**Looks at screenshot level 4 & level 7 of you in god mode**

http://www.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/doom0005rbd15hz39k.png


Beatable my ass. You were obviously cheating in every screenshot. You have full health, ammo, and godmode in the 3rd & last screenshot. I just tried out like 3 of your maps trying to get through it. Its not even possible. You cant say that its beatable and have screenshots of you using cheats like godmode and the "give all" cheat. It's disingenuous.

I do however, like the layout and map of the first level.... But trying to get through this without a weapons mod and without cheats.... I really don't see it being possible.

These cheating is for screenshots, not for playing. While I tested, I forget about make screenshot.

Look video level 3, here show how I play. You need learn make save/load at right moment, save time and health. Did tried on easy mod?

[Koros]

yaqxsw said:

Look video level 3, here show how I play.

What video are you referring to? I only see screenshot in this thread.
*Edit* nvm. See it on 3rd screen shot. Going to watch now.

yaqxsw said:

You need learn make save/load at right moment, save time and health.

Fair enough... But even so I really don't see it being beatable.

yaqxsw said:

Did tried on easy mod?

No, I was playing on "Hurt me plenty". I cant even imagine what it would be like on UV.

[General Rainbow Bacon]

In level 1 if you don't run all the way into the 'subway station' you can get locked out if you're not fast enough.

[CrazyDoomguy]

Jimp Argon said:

What video are you referring to? I only see screenshot in this thread.
*Edit* nvm. See it on 3rd screen shot. Going to watch now.



Fair enough... But even so I really don't see it being beatable.

No, I was playing on "Hurt me plenty". I cant even imagine what it would be like on UV.

I posted a video link near screenshot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRL4D60iCy0

If you think dont beatable, then try "Im young to die". This level is like chillax but bit easier.

[CrazyDoomguy]

General Rainbow Bacon said:

In level 1 if you don't run all the way into the 'subway station' you can get locked out if you're not fast enough.

Yes, that is for antishortcut. Need be fast :)

[General Rainbow Bacon]

Also, that inescapable water pit in map 04 is bullshit, fix that so you can get out if you fall in.

[CrazyDoomguy]

General Rainbow Bacon said:

Also, that inescapable water pit in map 04 is bullshit, fix that so you can get out if you fall in.

This can be used like shortcut - you fall every turn so long, that all zombieman will die (They kill each other). So it spend, you dont need make aktion. I think, that is not fair...

[General Rainbow Bacon]

Okay, but how do you get out?

[CrazyDoomguy]

General Rainbow Bacon said:

Okay, but how do you get out?

With load. I pass this level witch save and load (insure is important). Need play careful und try dont fall on water.

[Z0k]

yaqxsw said:

This can be used like shortcut - you fall every turn so long, that all zombieman will die (They kill each other). So it spend, you dont need make aktion. I think, that is not fair...

About whats fair whats not, i used to think like that long time ago. but you see theres ways to make things fair, if you add a unescapable pit its annoying, most of the iwads have some inescapable pits like E1M3 but some maps later have a way to get around it.

if player falls there because they want to save ammo while monsters kill each other,they could save ammo, and if players are smart to tackle a map with strategy i think they should get some sort of reward in this case: save ammo by doing monster infight,however if you feel its "unfair" (and of course its not. more like unfair for the player) you can make the pit escapable but instead water you can add an acid pit with 2-5 damage per sec and a teleport to get out of there. that way players cant abuse it but can be use as strategy with risk and reward.

[Spectre01]

Seems like the huge monster numbers would work better in pr/glboom+. Some sections are unplayable for me in G/ZDoom due to low FPS.

[CrazyDoomguy]

Z0k said:

About whats fair whats not, i used to think like that long time ago. but you see theres ways to make things fair, if you add a unescapable pit its annoying, most of the iwads have some inescapable pits like E1M3 but some maps later have a way to get around it.

if player falls there because they want to save ammo while monsters kill each other,they could save ammo, and if players are smart to tackle a map with strategy i think they should get some sort of reward in this case: save ammo by doing monster infight,however if you feel its "unfair" (and of course its not. more like unfair for the player) you can make the pit escapable but instead water you can add an acid pit with 2-5 damage per sec and a teleport to get out of there. that way players cant abuse it but can be use as strategy with risk and reward.

Ok I try add teleporter, but it will not effective for passing this part.

Seems like the huge monster numbers would work better in pr/glboom+. Some sections are unplayable for me in G/ZDoom due to low FPS.

I try make this WAD prb+ playable.

[Nine Inch Heels]

Again you manage to create some extremely fierce slaughter which is going to keep some folks busy for quite some time.

Given that you have created about 10-15 maps so far, the results aren't too shabby either.

There's just something that I think might be interesting to discuss in this context, and that is difficulty. Now, don't get me wrong, difficulty has little to do with the amount of monsters, so if you want to place 10.000 monsters in a map that is fine by me. However, when the design creates the need to save/load every minute or something along those lines, the map is on the verge of being "TAS-able" only.

I know this is highly subjective, and a lot of what I point out might not apply to others, but I think it could be worth talking about. If by "hard but passable" you mean what has been shown in your demo-video, you maybe should tone down the difficulty in general. For me, a level is "hard but passable" if it is possible to make it through without saving even once, and without it being due to an odd fluke of some description.

I've thought about this last time I played IGTH, too. Some of your arenas there could very well have been a level of their own, more or less. I guess what I'm trying to say is, that either it could be interesting to shorten your levels, so the players have smaller segments to go through, providing a more realistic chance of passing without constant saving/loading, or make some scenarios less "volatile".

Simply put: If you create scenarios which are nearly unbeatable, and place like 5-6 of those in a single level, chances are that it will be dismissed as being unbeatable by way of odds.

That's just how I feel about it. At the end of the day you should create what you think is fun and enjoyable. I am speaking only for myself here, and it's just some more or less random thoughts on your levels.

[CrazyDoomguy]

Sure Bowb said:

Again you manage to create some extremely fierce slaughter which is going to keep some folks busy for quite some time.

Given that you have created about 10-15 maps so far, the results aren't too shabby either.

There's just something that I think might be interesting to discuss in this context, and that is difficulty. Now, don't get me wrong, difficulty has little to do with the amount of monsters, so if you want to place 10.000 monsters in a map that is fine by me. However, when the design creates the need to save/load every minute or something along those lines, the map is on the verge of being "TAS-able" only.

I know this is highly subjective, and a lot of what I point out might not apply to others, but I think it could be worth talking about. If by "hard but passable" you mean what has been shown in your demo-video, you maybe should tone down the difficulty in general. For me, a level is "hard but passable" if it is possible to make it through without saving even once, and without it being due to an odd fluke of some description.

I've thought about this last time I played IGTH, too. Some of your arenas there could very well have been a level of their own, more or less. I guess what I'm trying to say is, that either it could be interesting to shorten your levels, so the players have smaller segments to go through, providing a more realistic chance of passing without constant saving/loading, or make some scenarios less "volatile".

Simply put: If you create scenarios which are nearly unbeatable, and place like 5-6 of those in a single level, chances are that it will be dismissed as being unbeatable by way of odds.

That's just how I feel about it. At the end of the day you should create what you think is fun and enjoyable. I am speaking only for myself here, and it's just some more or less random thoughts on your levels.

I know about difficulty level and this is not with number of monsters to do. On my WAD is no map with over 10.000 monsters.

Here is list number of monsters on UV

1. 3179
2. 4293
3. 9343
4. 5800
5. 1850
6. 7183
7. 3

About saving and load, yes. I have designt battle arena so, that need better save and load. If some really pass without save and load, then he is player level god. I write it on IGTH.

I ask, why player play on UV and think, they can pass this level without save and load? UV is ultra violence and mean very hard. To pass very hard need save and load, or it will not passable.

Exist alternate way - I have create difficulty setting. Hard, Medium, Easy. Try difficulty level "Im young to kill", I think, here is passable without any save and load.

[CrazyDoomguy]

Bad news, I cant make this WAD on prboom+ playable, because PrBoom-plus doesn't support DECORATE, which I have included into my WAD... level 7 without DECO will not have exit (Cant finish).

On my PC with 4 GB RAM is playable with Zdoom + I had made a Video level 3. I think, this shouldnt make any problem.

[Voros]

yaqxsw said:

1. 3179
2. 4293
3. 9343
4. 5800
5. 1850
6. 7183
7. 3 .

You cant be serious.

So it is a bunch of slaughterfest maps? And for Zdoom only?
I sure hope you make it Boom compatible soon, that way i can play it my self.

yaqxsw said:

Bad news, I cant make this WAD on prboom+ playable, because PrBoom-plus doesn't support DECORATE, which I have included into my WAD... level 7 without DECO will not have exit (Cant finish).

Can you tell me what exactly happens on level 7, that it requires DECORATE? Like a specific type of demon being killed causes the finishing of the level (such as E1M8's Baron duo fight)

[CrazyDoomguy]

Voros said:

You cant be serious.

So it is a bunch of slaughterfest maps? And for Zdoom only?
I sure hope you make it Boom compatible soon, that way i can play it my self.

Can you play on Boom? I have created this map on Boom.

[Voros]

yaqxsw said:

Can you play on Boom? I have created this map on Boom.

From what i hear you made Boom maps with Zdoom features. Obvious no, i cant play it on Boom ports.

[CrazyDoomguy]

Voros said:

You cant be serious.

So it is a bunch of slaughterfest maps? And for Zdoom only?
I sure hope you make it Boom compatible soon, that way i can play it my self.
Can you tell me what exactly happens on level 7, that it requires DECORATE? Like a specific type of demon being killed causes the finishing of the level (such as E1M8's Baron duo fight)

There are three bosses. Each boss have function/tag after death. Last boss have tag "teleport_endgame". Another there is bosseye hacked.

Why you cant play this WAD on Zdoom 2.8.1?

[wallabra]

Wait.. Does level 5 actually teleports the cyberdemon once it sees you?

Then it reminds me some certain Hell Revealed map, with a very similiar start. I should look it up later...

[Voros]

yaqxsw said:

Why you cant play this WAD on Zdoom 2.8.1?

I still havent played it yet. And i play Doom on my phone now, so i have GZdoom 1.8.6 and 2.1pre available for me play Zdoom mods. A bit outdated, yes, but enough. Also, im not a fan of slaughterfest maps.

IF YOU STILL WISH TO KEEP THE ZDOOM FEATURES
Then I recommend you break up the maps into smaller maps with packed enemies.

See Swift Death. Its playable, packed with demons, and the small space makes it seem like theres many of them here.

This basically your only option left that doesnt require you to remove any DECORATE. A compromise, you might say.

[Tristan]

Gave the maps a quick look in Russian Overkill with 9x monster health. I genuinely enjoy the likes of Chillax with that mod, so this should make for a nice alternative. A shame a couple of maps murder the framerate though x_x

[Nine Inch Heels]

yaqxsw said:

About saving and load, yes. I have designt battle arena so, that need better save and load. If some really pass without save and load, then he is player level god. I write it on IGTH.

So, here's the thing: Beating a level by saving and loading is basically something quite a few players won't regard as actually beating the whole thing, in fact some may even consider it as "save scamming". When people play maps which are considered "very difficult", they will usually use saves to get through the level once, while also segmenting it in order to practice smaller portions of it at a time. So if beating a level means getting through by any means necessary (not including cheating): OK, your maps are passable. If beating a level means doing it entirely from start to finish, your maps are impossible to beat on UV for 99.99998% percent of people, at which point I think it's too much for it's own good. Again, it's just my opinion, and you do what you think is right to do.

yaqxsw said:

I ask, why player play on UV and think, they can pass this level without save and load? UV is ultra violence and mean very hard. To pass very hard need save and load, or it will not passable.

Yeah, this is what I am talking about. If it is impassable without save/load shenanigans, you may have pushed the envelope too far. Of course there are players of different skill levels, and some super-human-doomers as well, but knowing how you personally attempt to beat the hardest of levels yourself, while you still need to save/load during your very own levels makes it look like totally over the top. If saving/loading is the most viable answer to a level's difficulty, it seems odd to even call it very hard, because with enough saving/loading, skill becomes a lot less meaningful than it would otherwise be, which in return makes beating your levels, the way you think it should be done, a test of patience rather than practice... When I think about a difficulty that I would call very hard, but doable, Sunlust is the prime example of how hard, and tight scenarios can still be fair enough to be beaten without saving once every 30 seconds.

Again: It's just how feel about your levels, and the difficulty that you employ. Regardless of my opinion you do what you want.

[Azuruish]

Voros said:

See Swift Death. Its playable, packed with demons, and the small space makes it seem like theres many of them here.

Certainly not his style... Not less than 1500 monsters!!!

[Koros]

Voros said:

i play Doom on my phone now, so i have GZdoom 1.8.6 and 2.1pre available for me play Zdoom mods. A bit outdated, yes, but enough.

You play Doom on your phone? That's stupid. Go get yourself a computer.

Voros said:

Also, im not a fan of slaughterfest maps.

You are in the wrong thread then, because that's pretty much what this map is.

Voros said:

IF YOU STILL WISH TO KEEP THE ZDOOM FEATURES
Then I recommend you break up the maps into smaller maps with packed enemies.

Why? So you can play this on your phone? Why should he change everything that is here already just so you can play this map? Because that is what it is sounding like to me.

Voros said:

This basically your only option left that doesnt require you to remove any DECORATE. A compromise, you might say.

Or you know..... He could just keep it the way it is and not change anything. Get GZ Doom and a proper computer if you are so eager to play this.

[Voros]

Easier said than done, Jimp. I used to have a computer. Now im stuck with this phone, oh well moving on.

Originally, yaqs wanted it to be Boom compatible, so that some portions of the maps wouldn't be unbearable. He couldn't do that. So i gave him another option that keep Zdoom features and doesnt go into an unbearable state. Apparently, not his style. I just gave him some tips, that's all.

Also, i never said it would be problem for me to play this.