Military coup in Turkey?

[Gez]

I swear, we don't get time to get bored nowadays.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36809083

[Swine & Roses]

I wonder how this will turn out.. They're probably better off without Erdogan.
He's supposedly fleeing to Germany and considering his recent actions, I really hope he's denied asylum.

[VGamingJunkie]

Considering I hear he was an ally of Radical Islamic groups like ISIS, I'm glad this happened. I'm normally against the Death Penalty but I think he should never have the opportunity to rule again.

[deadwolves]

Looks like this Turkey... got cooked.

[Reisal]

Kebab attempting to remove fellow kebab?

[dew]

Bremmer in overload, lots of interesting points to be had. He said the coup is probably mid-to-low tier, otherwise they'd get Erdogan as the primary target. Also worth noting that this has no good ending: a successful coup will create a torn country, surviving Erdogan will crack down on democracy, free press, Kurds, military, everything that looks funny at him.

That said, it's a really chaotic situation right now.

Glaice said:

Kebab attempting to remove fellow kebab?

Uhhh... okay, how about you fuck off, you piece of shit?

[everennui]

I'm in favor of the people who don't force censorship and shut down lines of communication.

Edit: Is Glacie trying to say, "cabal"? Wasn't Erdogan an elected official? Why is that such an offensive statement? At any rate it was a question, right? A secret political agenda outside of the establishment is called a Cabal. I don't know enough about President Erdogan to suggest that he won the election by any nefarious means, but his approval rating is a little below 50%.

Is it possible that Glacie just said that wrong word... and because Kebabs are a traditional Turkish food it was misinterpreted as a sleight against the people of this region? Kebab/Cabal are similar sounding.

IDK. Just playing the Devil's advocate here.

I don't understand why he was Hell'd for saying it. Can someone please explain it? Kebab?

[dew]

everennui said:

I don't understand why he was Hell'd for saying it. Can someone please explain it? Kebab?

There's a coup going on in a NATO country and his idea is to stereotypize Turks by their traditional food in a dismissive manner. That's Boris Johnson-tier rudeness.

[VGamingJunkie]

A certain someone doesn't like this coup:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/barack-obama-turkey-coup-225642

The sad thing is I'm not even surprised by his crap anymore.

[Gez]

everennui said:

I don't understand why he was Hell'd for saying it. Can someone please explain it? Kebab?

"remove kebab" is a racist meme.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/serbia-strong-remove-kebab

[everennui]

I don't know the story behind this. It kind of sucks that I'm so ignorant. I don't trust the media because there is always some agenda that they are trying to spin. It's so hard to understand what's, "REALLY" happening. I don't give a fuck about NATO. "In accordance with the Treaty, the fundamental role of NATO is to safeguard the freedom and security of its member countries by political and military means." (From NATO.int) That sounds like a dangerous thing and a huge liability. What if a country in this organization is corrupt? We just back them because they are in the group? Shit... as a US Citizen I find it hypocritical - on, "our" part - to invoke this notion whenever it's convenient for us. We didn't listen to NATO in the early 2000's. It's a bullshit organization that uses POWER as a trump card.

I want to hear these people speak. Is that horrible? Is this like 50 people? ...or is this a movement? Democracy is just a word. It's like, "sin" or "good". I don't know what they mean, but I know I don't wanna be a "bad sinner". Who uses this language? It's people with cameras and money to lose.

The world is so fucked up. I don't know what to believe. My prayers go out to the People of Turkey. I hope that they choose what is best for them. It's easy to say these people are this (these people are Christian, these people are Muslim...) ...we all share something in common. We all wake up every morning, we put on our clothes and we face the day. We all sweat. We all wash our dishes. We all get shit on our hands. We're all trying to make it day by day.

Religion has got to get out of this equation. Are these people who are revolting or committing, "treason" really radicalized people that are so mindfucked by dogma. I just don't see it. You have a religious fanatic or two here in the states, but I look around me and I see most people just do what they do. Even the most Christian people I know aren't completely preoccupied by Christ. My point is... when there are these incidences where some lunatic blows up an abortion clinic or there's some hate crime that happens... this isn't indicative of our society as a whole. No one says, "Those Christian radials are up to it again."

If Obama is against it I guess there'll be a "good" reason for it.

If this coup is representative of the people, than I think Erdogan should reassess his position of authority.

I think that the US has a bit of a reputation for being somewhat pushy with it's philosophies.

Where does Egypt Turkey (oops) put its money? What is it's current GDP? Is there any reason at all for something like this to happen? Why would someone who loves their country enough to die for it suddenly decide to become a traitor?

That's what I'm confused by. Of course I can't, and am afraid to search to deeply for the other perspective.

IDK. Does anyone know more about this yet? Links? If citizens are actually stopping soldiers and detaining them, maybe the coup is a bad thing.

I guess I'm neutral/leaning toward democracy.

Gez said:

"remove kebab" is a racist meme.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/serbia-strong-remove-kebab

Ohhh... "excused" racism... "because it's a joke." That's way to common. Same with homophobia. "Don't you know what satire is?" That's what they'll say next. It's their, "safe place" when they get called out.

"It's just a prank, bro."

It's kinda lame how you need to cross reference a site called, "know your meme" just to understand what half of the people are talking about on the internet. I guess it's more pathetic to not have an original idea and find peer approval from something as superficial as, "I saw that, too."

If someone mentions someone from another country. I try to envision a small child chasing an ice cream cart while her mom holds baby brother and struggles to keep up. I guess it makes sense that I would shed a few tears that someone can so flippantly and openly be racist.

You or I could have just as easily been born anywhere.

Thanks for clearing that up for me, Gez.

[VGamingJunkie]

There's a theory that the military is staging the coup because Turkey was a secular nation until this specific ruler lead it down the path of Radicalized Islam.


Unfortunately, everennui, people who are of this Radicalized sect of Islam literally can't separate religion from their daily lives because it's just as much a political movement as it is a religious one and they tend to treat other viewpoints with a deadly response, even other interpretations of Islam.

[dew]

MetroidJunkie said:

There's a theory that the military is staging the coup because Turkey was a secular nation until this specific ruler lead it down the path of Radicalized Islam.

Eh, Erdogan is still far from "Radicalized Islam" as we know it (why the capitalization?), but he's still poisonous enough. Turkey used to be the one truly secular Muslim country, but he removed that quality throughout the last decade and a half. He is making a fairly developed country worse in the ways that matter once your family is fed and prospering.

However! Despite the army being the traditional defender of the secularism, I'd be wary of such a ideologistic description of the coup. You need to realize that the Turkish army HATES Erdogan, because he was gradually removing them from the power they had for decades - they were effectively running the country, which means having their fingers in the economical decisions. They were as corrupt as Erdogan is nowadays and they miss those days.

MetroidJunkie said:

Unfortunately, everennui, people who are of this Radicalized sect of Islam literally can't separate religion from their daily lives because it's just as much a political movement as it is a religious one and they tend to treat other viewpoints with a deadly response, even other interpretations of Islam.

I'll just call bullshit, you probably have no idea what you're talking about and you're just winging it. What's Erdogan's "radicalized sect", eh? He's much more of an egotistical dictator who happens to be a conservative Muslim, but far from the extreme fringes, rather than an extremist with radical views. He's been America's faithful ally for 15 years, have you forgotten that?

[Gez]

Welp, the one thing I hoped wouldn't happen happened, and now there are probably dozens of dead. Crowd getting gunned down on live TV, bodies mangled by heavy weapons... This article mentions at least 42 dead, and unfortunately I'm sure the body count will only increase as time passes.

[VGamingJunkie]

There are claims that he was funding ISIS

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2014/07/30/isis-fighter-claims-turkey-funds-the-jihadist-group/

He also threatened to dump refugees onto European countries in an attempt to force the EU to recognize Turkey

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/02/11/erdogan-slams-eu-threatens-to-send-refugees-outside-turkey/


"you probably have no idea what you're talking about and you're just winging it" I don't think having suspected ties with ISIS and presumably using ISIS in an effort to suppress the Kurds is just winging it.

[Tarnsman]

I see we've reached the point of unironically posting Breitbart. Can we get some Salon articles about how pedophile terrorists are oppressed up in here to balance that out.

[dew]

Ah. You must understand, the Syrian conflict was seen as a great opportunity for a power grab by Turkey, their goal becoming the local hegemon. They fueled the conflict by ignoring the ISIS (and shutting their eyes on ISIS smuggling oil to local petro-barons), but that's not really "funding ISIS". They were always at war with them and bombed them in retaliation of every attack by the terrorists.

However Turkey's main enemy in the Syrian conflict always were the Kurds first, Assad second and ISIS only third. This is why they didn't prioritize and "tolerated" ISIS - they only wanted to steamroll them last after Assad's regime would fall. It was a cynical realpolitik game and it eventually burned Erdogan badly, because he lost pretty much all his stakes in the conflict. Kurds became the first real military presence that could oppose ISIS' gains and neither Americans nor Russians could ignore that. Then Russians joined the fray and backed Assad's crumbling regime. That effectively destroyed all of Erdogan's plans, especially after the plane shotdown fiasco.

[Mechazawa]

Erdogan has been described as Ikhwan (the ones who were the so called "Muslim Brotherhood" of Egypt). He had strong ties with them when they ruled over Egypt before Sisi came and (thankfully) removed the Ikhwan from power in Egypt, a great move by the way.

I consider it good if Erdogan leaves. He supported Daesh against the Kurds. Might as well be supporting Israel against Palestinians. He has Netanyahu level of disgust for me. Though, I neither wish Turkey to be ruled by Ikhwan or Wahhabi (Daesh) movements, full democracy wouldn't be good for it either. Nor would strict military rule. Hmm.. that's a tuffy.

[VGamingJunkie]

How about Erdogan specifically? You admitted he was dragging the country in a more Islamic direction. Of course the rest of them, being of a more Secularist attitude, would oppose ISIS but Erdogan himself? If nothing else, it could be a factor in the coup since, like you said, he took a system that lasted for decades and twisted it.

[june gloom]

I like how you didn't respond to being called out for posting Breitbart. C'mon man, you might as well post the Daily Mail.

[snapshot]

Turns out turkish people really like him ... k I'll shut up .

[VGamingJunkie]

dethtoll, you're the only one denying the news stories because of the source.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/erdogan-threatens-send-refugees-outside-turkey-103343752.html?ref=gs

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-08/bilal-erdogan-denies-allegations-he-funding-isis-heres-problem

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2015/1202/Russia-Turkey-s-Erdogan-is-in-the-oil-business-with-ISIS

https://euobserver.com/migration/132233

Do you reject these sources too?

[dew]

There were accusations that Erdogan's son was involved in buying oil from Daesh. It's certainly despicable and Russians milked the "rumor" (it wasn't confirmed, but I tend to believe it) properly in their retaliation after the plane shootdown. Again, I'd see the more cynical aspect of it - it was just good business for them and propping the terrorists up to last longer against the despised Kurds and Assad was probably an acceptable moral choice for Erdogan.

As for threatening to let the immigrants loose on Europe... that was an attempt to blackmail EU into fastforwarding Turkey's acceptance into the Union and sadly Merkel was game. Luckily the backlash against her was quite fierce.

Basically, he was never funding Daesh per se, he just wanted to exploit them for his own goals for a while. The context is important and the line is quite fine, but the motivating factor was cynicism and opportunism, not radicalism and support of the war against the West.

And you should never Breitbart. Especially if you have legit sources.

[VGamingJunkie]

I wasn't aware that Breitbart was so universally despised, it just happened to be the first sources I came across. At the very least, you have to say he's probably a hell of a lot less opposed to ISIS than others from his country would be.

[Cacockcansukmycok]

Gez said:

"remove kebab" is a racist meme.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/serbia-strong-remove-kebab

KEBOB Removal was made by stallon. :kappa:

[AndrewB]

MetroidJunkie said:

I wasn't aware that Breitbart was so universally despised,

Universally among leftists. If you're on a gaming website then there's approximately a 100% chance that it will be strongly left-leaning. That shouldn't be surprising. Gamers living in their mom's basements, gamers living off welfare and disability, etc etc.

[VGamingJunkie]

So basically it's the European equivalent of Fox News, everyone craps on it because it doesn't swing to the same side.

[june gloom]

AndrewB said:

Universally among leftists. If you're on a gaming website then there's approximately a 100% chance that it will be strongly left-leaning. That shouldn't be surprising. Gamers living in their mom's basements, gamers living off welfare and disability, etc etc.

hahahaha holy shit no stop stop i only have so many creepy laughing gifs

[Tarnsman]

AndrewB said:

Universally among leftists. If you're on a gaming website then there's approximately a 100% chance that it will be strongly left-leaning. That shouldn't be surprising. Gamers living in their mom's basements, gamers living off welfare and disability, etc etc.

MetroidJunkie said:

So basically it's the European equivalent of Fox News, everyone craps on it because it doesn't swing to the same side.

No I'm pretty sure that it has more to do with the fact that the website is running articles about 'build the wall' memes, now has an author actually credited as 'pizza party ben', and is basically dominated by a man who has openly admitted that he is a provocateur who purposefully posts outrageous shit such as long tirades about how famous he is or routinely mocking a former contributor for being short, jewish, and of course being a "cuck".

Which if that's your thing, good, memetic shit flinging has its place, but recognize what it does to your credibility as a journalist. It's like trying to post Salon as a serious news source or a Guardian opinion piece (home of the wonderful 'my daughter's poop size is a sign of feminine power' article) given their recent descent into whatever the hell that is.

[VGamingJunkie]

Fair enough, I didn't realize these things when I used it as a source. As I've proven, it's hardly the only source out there.