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turkeyjerky1991

Exclusive levels not in original releases list...

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These are exclusive levels not featured in the original official Doom games (Ultimate, II, Master, Final, NRFTL). Am I missing anything?

PS1:
MAP29: Twilight Descends
MAP30: Threshold of Pain
MAP57: The Marshes
MAP54: Redemption Denied
MAP58: The Mansion
MAP59: Club Doom

Atari Jaguar:
Map16: Tower of Babel
Map17: Hell Keep
*These two levels are completely different from the PC version ones with the same name.

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You missed the Xbox levels from the collector's edition of Doom 3. Namely, Sewers in Doom 1 and Betray in Doom 2.

Other than that, I don't really see anything missing.

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Not sure if they count, but The Focus and Dead Simple from the Doom 2 beta were very different from their final versions.

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I'm interested... are any of these exclusive levels good? I remember reading that the sewers level is really bad. :P

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^ Never played Sewers or Betray, but as for the rest: Twilight Descends and Threshold of Pain are two of my favourite maps from PSX Doom as a whole (so that's including the PC maps as well). They both take place after E4M8, hence the latter is the final map of E4, and therefore Ultimate Doom. It has no boss fight, but with a much more hellish setting and it's a longer map overall, so it feels much more appropriate as a finisher. Twilight Descends looks more like an early Doom 2 map but with the E4 sky, but it's still pretty great regardless.

The Marshes is cool, but it's got this bullshit teleporter that puts you inside this tiny little building that you can only get out of by being crushed to death. The Mansion is awesome, but Club Doom is very short and kinda silly, though overall, PSX Doom II's secret maps are better than the PC's imo.

Redemption Denied should be good, but it's easily cheesed by getting the two masterminds to infight. In this regard it can be thought of as the PSXs answer to Gotcha! which would be fine, if it wasn't the last sodding level :P

Tower of Babel (a.k.a Hell Gate) is a very short map, but kinda fast paced. Not a particularly amazing end to E2, but on the PSX, the real Tower of Babel was at the end of E3, so nothing of value was lost. Hell Keep is imo better than the PC versoin.

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Eris Falling said:

^ Never played Sewers or Betray, but as for the rest: Twilight Descends and Threshold of Pain are two of my favourite maps from PSX Doom as a whole (so that's including the PC maps as well). They both take place after E4M8, hence the latter is the final map of E4, and therefore Ultimate Doom. It has no boss fight, but with a much more hellish setting and it's a longer map overall, so it feels much more appropriate as a finisher. Twilight Descends looks more like an early Doom 2 map but with the E4 sky, but it's still pretty great regardless.

Definitely have to agree with this sentiment. I played PSX Doom through before the PC Doom's properly, and was disappointed to see that Twilight Descends and THreshold of Pain weren't in the originals.

On the other hand, I thought Club Doom was a great little secret map. Redemption Denied was definitely a lackluster final level though.

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For something that's supposed to be the first level in an episode, Hell Keep is pretty horribly unbalanced for a pistol start. Of course, I only played the GBA version of it but still.

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MetroidJunkie said:

For something that's supposed to be the first level in an episode, Hell Keep is pretty horribly unbalanced for a pistol start. Of course, I only played the GBA version of it but still.


Agreed. It's by far the hardest to pistol start in PS1 Doom for me. I haven't pistol-started the GBA version on this level but it's pretty much going to be the same.

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DeathevokatioN said:

I'm interested... are any of these exclusive levels good? I remember reading that the sewers level is really bad. :P

The Xbox exclusive levels are bad. They are also not really exclusive, since they had been shared by the authors on the Internet and BBS long before they were included in the Xbox ports. They are also not really levels, more like Easter eggs IMO. They're basically the equivalent of a mason tagging his signature on the inside of a cinder block before cementing it into the wall: you're not supposed to see it or even know it exists, it's just the mason who's supposed to be aware of it.


Other than these two, the console-exclusive levels are ranging from okay to good, by IWAD standards.

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Decay said:

On the other hand, I thought Club Doom was a great little secret map. Redemption Denied was definitely a lackluster final level though.


Oh I don't dislike Club Doom at all, I probably could've chosen my words a bit better. Seeing as it's the only super secret level, not to mention the fact that the both the secret exits in Suburbs and The Mansion are pretty obscure (iirc), it could maybe thought of as an easter egg map, and so the silliness of it, which is also a massive contrast to the rest of the game, is certainly justified.

Redemption Denied is another I don't dislike, despite that massive flaw, but it's better off played on lower difficulty because there's no second mastermind to cheese the whole thing. Thinking about it though, it's still a big arena with a load of barons in the middle followed by one or two masterminds, so the things I do like about it are probably just nostalgia.

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I think cheesing the final fight by causing infighting between the masterminds is 100% canon and the intended way to play. My proof is the end text.

        YOU DID IT!
   BY TURNING THE EVIL OF
   THE HORRORS OF HELL IN
    UPON ITSELF YOU HAVE
   DESTROYED THE POWER OF
        THE DEMONS.
  THEIR DREADFUL INVASION
   HAS BEEN STOPPED COLD!
   NOW YOU CAN RETIRE TO
  A LIFETIME OF FRIVOLITY.
      CONGRATULATIONS!
"Turning the horrors of hell in upon itself" seems quite clearly a reference to infighting. You've gotten the masterminds to destroy each other instead of cooperating to control the demon hordes.

If you won by killing the spiders without infighting, you did it wrong.

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Gez said:

If you won by killing the spiders without infighting, you did it wrong.


Pretty sure I had no problem BFG-spamming the two of them last time I played it.

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Or perhaps by killing the masterminds without infighting, the hellspawn (withoout their leadership) lost all direction and went crazy on anyhing that moved, effectively offing themselves.

Also...that Jaguar Tower of Babel looked cooler than the original Tower of Babel...except that there needs to be a cyberdemon arena at the end.

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valkiriforce said:

Pretty sure I had no problem BFG-spamming the two of them last time I played it.


Ironically if you play on medium skill instead of hard, there is only one spider and you have to kill it by yourself which is effectively harder.

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TraceOfSpades said:

Also...that Jaguar Tower of Babel looked cooler than the original Tower of Babel...except that there needs to be a cyberdemon arena at the end.


You won't have a cyberdemon in the jaguar version of the game. Not when you play it on the actual hardware, with the actual gamepad.

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valkiriforce said:

Pretty sure I had no problem BFG-spamming the two of them last time I played it.

It's not a question of having problems doing it through a heretical way, it's a question that the One True Canon story is that you did it by turning Hell against itself.

You heretic.

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They're worse than the worst 1994 DM maps you can find, but GBA Doom has some exclusive deathmatch maps. It was an official release so I suppose they belong on this list.

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It's like if you pull off some ridiculous trick you can kill the Romero head with a pistol in MAP30: Icon of Sin, but the canon story is that you pumped that exposed brain full of rockets, not that you exploited some arch-vile jump to land just at the right place and kill it with your pea-shooter.

And neither is it that you noclipped into the walldemon's skull, and used a chainsaw.

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Its going to be ok Gez, you can't carry the weight of those poor souls who didn't beat the game using the One True Canon method on your shoulders forever

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joe-ilya said:

Does Doom MAP14 Homage count?

It was almost in Final Doom for PSX, so nearly ;)

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buttspit said:

Agreed. It's by far the hardest to pistol start in PS1 Doom for me. I haven't pistol-started the GBA version on this level but it's pretty much going to be the same.


Now that I think about it, Ps1/GBA Hell Keep is redundant anyway. Why couldn't they use the PC version's Hell Keep, just maybe with simplified texture selection? Did they just really want to make it a unique map? It's not like Tower of Babel and Dis where the Jaguar version's lack of Mastermind and Cyberdemon forced them to get creative.

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PC Hell Keep is more of an introductory map (and Jag was one big episode), and it's also not that great of a map in general.

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The PSX exclusive maps are fantastic, especially Twilight Descends and Threshold of Pain. Two of my favorite maps in general.

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At least it would have been fairer from a pistol start perspective, the console Hell Keep pretty much demands that you went to it from a previous episode.

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Gez said:

It's like if you pull off some ridiculous trick you can kill the Romero head with a pistol in MAP30: Icon of Sin, but the canon story is that you pumped that exposed brain full of rockets, not that you exploited some arch-vile jump to land just at the right place and kill it with your pea-shooter.

And neither is it that you noclipped into the walldemon's skull, and used a chainsaw.


Is there any video of anyone archvile jumping and killing Romerohead with a pistol?

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Quasar said:

It was almost in Final Doom for PSX, so nearly ;)


Yeah that map 14 homage was (likely) one of 3 levels that replaced 3 of the Master levels at some point in the port's development.

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