Shooting monsters on higher levels

[ViperGTS96]

Having trouble with this one map, I have monsters up on raised rows, but only rockets, and cells can hurt them. The Minigun, Shotguns and Pistol are all useless unless i get right up in their faces. Even up on the same level as them I have to go really close to get a hit without using Rockets or Cells. This includes Rails which you can see hit them yet do nothing. I checked all the line def settings. I tried checking off the allow projectiles to pass through middle texture even know there is none. This is my first UDMF map.

Possibly something to do with the classes(1-5) on things? I can't figure that out, tried a couple things. Currently have them set to all classes.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Note I have tested the weapons in other levels and there's no problem.

[scifista42]

ViperGTS96 said:

I checked all the line def settings.

If you checked the "Block hitscans" flag, there's the cause. Hitscan-based weapons would be unable to fire through, even if projectiles would be able to.

If that's not the case... Does it happen only in a specific place, or anywhere in the map? All I can say is that classes don't have anything to do with this. Could you post screenshots of the place where it happens, or link to the wad itself? Also try slightly changing the map's geometry and saving it, which will rebuild nodes, as this might be a nodebuilder error. If you're mapping in Doom Builder 2 or in GZDoom Builder, go to Map Analysis mode to check for map geometry related errors. (Other editors should have error-checking modes too.)

[ViperGTS96]

The problem area is up on the rows along the back there. Nothing is set to block hit scans ..

Thanks for the quick reply!
I'll try to rebuild the nodes.


(I rocket jumped for the picture.)

[scifista42]

Is there any particular linedef that appears to be blocking hitscans, with bullet puffs appearing on it? When the hitscans "don't work", do bullet puffs appear anywhere? (Use "freeze" + "fly" + "noclip" cheats immediately after firing a hitscan weapon and then go along the shooting direction to see if a bullet puff was spawned anywhere along it.)

[ViperGTS96]

The nodes don't line up with the linedefs, not sure if that matters. The map is aprox 50,000 units by 50,000unts. It's not small. There is a a missing node in a different area, and rebuilding them hasn't changed a thing. Using GZDoom Builder..

No puffs..

[scifista42]

ViperGTS96 said:

The map is aprox 50,000 units by 50,000unts.

OK. If you (temporarily) cut out parts of the map to make it (several times) smaller, and rebuild nodes, does the problem go away? Does it go away if you split some of your large sectors into multiple smaller ones? (Then use "Undo" to revert the changes.)

[ViperGTS96]

I deleted the biggest part, and 3/4s of the nodes are missing. Rebuilt the nodes, nothing changed. I'll try an external node builder.

[scifista42]

We don't even know yet if this is actually a node problem, which we should determine. If you delete everything from the map except for a single small area where the problem occurs, and the problem persists, then it's probably not a node problem. Does the Map Analysis mode report any sector / linedef / vertice related errors? Is any of the linedefs or sectors directly involved in the problematique area exceptionally long, large, wide or tall?

[Empyre]

If you map isn't within +/- 16K in both X and Y, you are likely to have problems. I learned that the hard way myself.

[kb1]

ViperGTS96 said:

The nodes don't line up with the linedefs, not sure if that matters. The map is aprox 50,000 units by 50,000 units.

I'm not sure, but I think it might be a blockmap issue. The above suggestions are good: Delete everything but the room in the screenshot. I think it's *area* that we're concerned with, not necessarily X by itself, or Y. In other words, X could be large with a small Y, or Y could be large with a small X, but not both, as that increases area. I wish I knew more about it. I do know that when a dimension exceeds 32767, you'd get a wraparound effect in vanilla Doom, and in many ports.

Personally, I'd be worried about performance issues with a map that big. And, I'd probably get lost playing it :) But, that's a nice screenshot - looks like a lot of fun!

Trim the map down to that single room, rebuild the nodes, and test. Good luck!

[ViperGTS96]

Thanks a lot for all the help! Still no luck tho, I pretty much remade that entire area, the nodes are fixed (none missing now) had to move some vertices around, a bunch were in between grid lines. Seems to have fixed the missing node problem. Still have to go stick the gun in their face to use bullets. It's not a problem in the main center area, just on those ledges. If anything I'll have to release it with the glitch and get help then.

[scifista42]

ViperGTS96 said:

If anything I'll have to release it with the glitch and get help then.

Or put the map into its own wad (without your other maps and resources, if you don't want to share them yet) and post it here. Maybe just a stripped down version of the map, in which the glitch is still present.

[kb1]

ViperGTS96 said:

Thanks a lot for all the help! Still no luck tho, I pretty much remade that entire area, the nodes are fixed (none missing now) had to move some vertices around, a bunch were in between grid lines. Seems to have fixed the missing node problem. Still have to go stick the gun in their face to use bullets. It's not a problem in the main center area, just on those ledges. If anything I'll have to release it with the glitch and get help then.

Are you aiming the weapon up and down with the mouse/keyboard, or are you relying on Doom's auto-aim feature for vertical aim? Cause auto-aim only works for a limited distance.

Yes, if you could share a stripped down version that exhibits the problem, without being too much of a "spoiler", please do - that's the best way to determine what causes the problem, and maybe what changes might fix it.

[ViperGTS96]

I may just have to make a stripped down version for you guys, I have noticed it is not just along the side but in random areas throughout the main arena.

**I failed to mention that this map was originally created in Doom format (made from scratch tho). I changed to UDMF in the map options (GZDoom Builder) as soon as I learned how. (The Arena was created before the conversion) Suspecting this is the issue. I may have to export as an .obj and import again to start over if so.

Has anyone had weird issues like this from a map conversion?

Could the UDMF Map act weird being in the same wad as original Doom Format Maps?
(seems to find it without problems tho)



Thank-you

[scifista42]

ViperGTS96 said:

**I failed to mention that this map was originally created in Doom format (made from scratch tho). I changed to UDMF in the map options (GZDoom Builder) as soon as I learned how. (The Arena was created before the conversion) Suspecting this is the issue.

Yes, it's very possible this is the issue, because properly converting Doom format maps to UDMF requires using dedicated converting tools, not just changing a map configuration in GZDB. See this post by Kappes Buur, describing a common proper method of doing so (GZDB can convert Hexen format maps to UDMF).

ViperGTS96 said:

Could the UDMF Map act weird being in the same wad as original Doom Format Maps?
(seems to find it without problems tho)

The engine loads each map separately, and assuming you're using either ZDoom or GZDoom or Zandronum, they support all 3 map formats (Doom, Hexen, UDMF), so a wad containing maps in different formats to each other (some Doom, some Hexen, some UDMF) will play perfectly fine in them.

[ViperGTS96]

I made a new map in UDMF and remade the basic areas just as big and it works! I tried everything to salvage it, even copying and pasting from one Instance of Doom builder to another but it carried the glitch with it. I'm rebuilding from scratch. Alpha is in the garbage, Beta will naturally be better plus I'm using a Grid Backdrop to trace new designs for sectors.

Thank-you all for your help.