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Toph Bei Fong

I may be in the minority but I like Doom 1993 more than Doom 2016

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It's not exactly the minority opinion on this forum, though, considering it's more or less dedicated to the classics. I think I saw more people complaining that the teens in that react video needed time adjusting to Doom than they were people claiming Doom 2016 is superior to Doom 1993.

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It's not fair to compare them, neither for 2016 nor 1993.
It's like comparing a 1977 Ford Mustang with a 2015 Mustang. One is a classic because it works and it got history behind. The other is a modern sport car that still has to make history.
Two differnt things.

Doom is a classic game, that aged quite well thanks to the Source Ports. It works it's fun play and most likely will be fun to play in 10 years. Doom 2016 is a new game that's just few months old.

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Believe it or not, I think more than a few people are going to agree wih your opinion.

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Wild Dog said:

It's not fair to compare them, neither for 2016 nor 1993.
It's like comparing a 1977 Ford Mustang with a 2015 Mustang. One is a classic because it works and it got history behind. The other is a modern sport car that still has to make history.
Two differnt things.

Doom is a classic game, that aged quite well thanks to the Source Ports. It works it's fun play and most likely will be fun to play in 10 years. Doom 2016 is a new game that's just few months old.

No way, your comparison isn't complete, you forgot to say that you can easily modify the car and enhance it in endless ways, while the newer car can't have that done to it, so it automatically makes the new car less worthy.

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joe-ilya said:

you forgot to say that you can easily modify the car and enhance it in endless ways, while the newer car can't have that done to it, so it automatically makes the new car less worthy.


Why couldn't you? I mean, car DRM doesn't exist.

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DMGUYDZ64 said:

Already happened, You can hold more than 2 weapons now, Under loadout options Set Max weapons to 15 and change first weapon to anyone you want .


thanks. I'll check that out

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Saturn said:

Why couldn't you? I mean, car DRM doesn't exist.



Are you sure? Who knows what's inside the computers that control modern cars? :D

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Vintage Doom is special, that's why we're all here! Some things cannot be explained, they must be experienced.

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I liked DOOM '16 quite a lot, but I haven't played it once after I got all the achievements. I just gone back to replaying Ultimate DOOM over and over again.

There's just so many things to do: no saves run, pistol starts, 100% secrets... And I also never managed to get past E1M3 on Nightmare, nor have I given a shot to beating all the par times, so there's that too.

The new DOOM, good as it is, doesn't really have the same replay value of the classics. And there are all the community WADs, of course.

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I liked Doom 2016 a lot. It sure has its flaws but it was a really good reimagination of Doom.

That said, it will never replace Doom 1 and 2 because Snapmap is garbage. So unless we get something similar to the Creation Kit it will not grab the community like the originals did. I would definitely take the time to learn the tools and make something.

I still heartily recommend it to everyone. It's one of the few modern FPS games out there that does old school exploration right...at least the first half of the game. I mean it's not like it becomes like COD after the first half and there are definitely still secrets to be found but it was almost as if all the levels after Argent Facility (Destroyed) were made by a different team.

It also LOOKS and FEELS incredibly authentic. I mean, what's not Doom about these environments?















P.S I really hope there will be a Doom Radio episode about the new Doom. I know there is already one but it only discussed the game's announcement.

On the flipside, some places don't feel that authentic. Places like Advanced Research Facility, Lazarus Labs and Polar Core feel a bit to...sci fi? Now Doom has always been sci-fi but in the past it was more grungy and retro-ish. The first levels have that feel but the ones I mentioned feel like more like something out of Mass Effect.

Lazarus Labs does have a few places I really liked though. Something keeps telling me STARGR was the main inspiration for the level.

I mean if I wanted to reinterpret a random STARGR hallway from the original Doom it would probably look like this,

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^ People don't really hate doom 2016 for the environment.

They hate it for the lack of colour schemes, it's either brown or red or brown and red.
The gameplay mechanics, there are fatalities and all monsters drop supplies for you instead of you having too look them up yourself.
Some monsters have ugly designs and sometimes you'll have a hard time indetitifying them because of how familiar they look with each other. (Imps, all types of zombies look the same)
Too many infuences from sellout video games like Battlefield and COD.
The soundtrack is dubstep instead of ambient and rock.

Of course these are not all my opinions, I just spewed out reason why others disliked those.
I, for example disagree about the colour argument, the classic duo had brown and gray more than anything else, that's only one opinion I disagree with.

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I'm definitely with you, dude. Been playing classic Doom almost every day since I was six. While I really enjoyed Doom 2016 (am starting my third playthrough), classic Doom will always be number one to me.

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Aggs said:

I'm definitely with you, dude. Been playing classic Doom almost every day since I was six. While I really enjoyed Doom 2016 (am starting my third playthrough), classic Doom will always be number one to me.



it seems almost every day I find some new mod that makes the game that much more fun. I just installed the weapon wheel mod and this is cool because at work when I'm on my tablet I'm using a controller. works very well.

but I do love using the smooth doom mod on vanilla doom. so much animation!

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Rathori said:

I liked DOOM '16 quite a lot, but I haven't played it once after I got all the achievements. I just gone back to replaying Ultimate DOOM over and over again.

There's just so many things to do: no saves run, pistol starts, 100% secrets... And I also never managed to get past E1M3 on Nightmare, nor have I given a shot to beating all the par times, so there's that too.

The new DOOM, good as it is, doesn't really have the same replay value of the classics. And there are all the community WADs, of course.

you could argue there's different ways playing the new Doom game, too. ever tried doing a no upgrade run, for example? there's also Ultra-Nightmare, which is the game's Ironman mode, where you see how far you can get into the game without dying.

i definitely feel the single-player of Doom 4 is still worth playing. it's surprisingly skill-based and keeps you on your toes on the harder difficulties, whereas in classic Doom, the AI is kind of simple and dumb in comparison. although Classic Doom definitely have the most replayability thanks to the mods.

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joe-ilya said:

They hate it for the lack of colour schemes, it's either brown or red or brown and red.

Or green (those toxic rooms) or gray (ResOps and similar levels) or Blue (Inside) ... etc

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The general consensus is that the single-player is good, the multiplayer is lousy, and Snapmap is too limited in map making ability to really get much long-term use.

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Come into a forum dedicated for the good old doom (doom 2016 has only a small section, and it isn't very active) and call this a minority opinion, something here doesn't make sense.

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The original Dooms were, are and will be the #1 FPSes and I seriously doubt that will ever change.
Doom 4 is a good game, but all the flaws I expected from its coverage before release came true unfortunately...

Horrible save system. Is it so hard to allow regular saving along with autosaves/checkpoints or do the companies think people can't remember to save? Why not combine both? (consoles I suppose?)
So many questions!!!!! Then comes a situation you decide to explore the level, spend good 20 mins running around getting everything, secrets etc. and then you miss a jump before next checkpoint and die. 20 mins out of the window and you're left with the feeling "Is this even worth it?" Replaying same parts over and over gets boring FAST.

Health system. While there are still health pickups in the world, they're pretty much useless because of the amount of health you get from glory kills when you're low on HP. Only useful one is megasphere (or whatever it's called in the new doom). Also disappointed in the way armor works. Could have just called it health bar 2 and it would have the same effect.

Ammo economy. Now this is just sad. The first rune you get pretty much eliminates the need to conserve ammo EVER. Add the chainsaw in combination with this rune and one chainsaw kill = 100% full on ammo. No more tight and tense ammo situations.

The only truly spectacular part is the level and environment design. Just incredible.

Even with all this, it's still better than most FPSes today and is a solid 8/10.
The game that came closest to the old school way in recent years was Serious Sam 3. Can't wait for SS4.

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On the contrary, Doom had over 20 years of support. Doom 2016 only had a few months

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idbeholdME said:

...

Pretty much, what you said.

I went for 100% completion on my first playthrough, and man was I mad at lack of saves. I had to restart entire levels a few times when I missed a secret or one of those god-awful "perform N different finishers on monster X" challenges. At least I though I had to, because I didn't know you could just replay the level any time without losing any progress, and it would count for achievements; it's not like they mention it anywhere.

And yeah, I've been playing classic DOOM for 20 years, I doubt that DOOM '16 would last at least 10% that time, for me at least. Lack of proper editor only serves to prove the point.

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Well, I've fallen in love with Doom 2016 and have been playing it religiously, but it never had any hope of surpassing the original.
It has too many fatal bugs and flaws that are irritating enough to prevent it from being even close to Classic Doom and it doesn't enjoy the mod support the original has (not at present at least and it probably never will).

Maes said:

So, is there any reason at all to treat Doom 2016 as something more than a revamp of Doom 3?

Well, aside from them both looking like a CGI movie, and them sharing a few plot elements (such as a scientist who is corrupted and lets the Demons in) they're as different as night and day, so I'm not sure what you mean.

Namely, Doom 2016 enjoys a heavy focus on action-packed, fast-paced gameplay, whereas Doom 3 was more of a psychological horror shooter, the polar opposite.

Also, while Doom 2016 is a reboot, like Doom 3 was, it actually goes with a different story reason for the demonic invasion this time around.
Teleporters are barely mentioned in the story (largely unimportant to the plot) and the main story focus is on the subtly corrupting Hell energy that exploits Human greed and makes that the catalyst for all the events leading up to the game.

Not to mention the subtle hints that suggests that the game is also a sequel to the older games (and possibly many user-made custom megawads) as well as a reboot.

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In my opinion DOOM (1993) is FAR superior to medicore new Doom.

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While I haven't played Doom 4 myself yet, I have seen a lot of videos of it and from what I can see it has very little in common with the first Doom.

With Doom 1 (and to a lesser extend with Doom 2), it seemed like all the stars aligned when it comes to gameplay. The weapon and monster-balance is just so well crafted, that it's really hard to pull off for other titles. Every weapon in the first Doom games felt unique and served a purpose, aside from perhaps the pistol (the shotgun for medium distance, the super shotgun for up close, the plasma-gun for dealing with bigger crowds of enemies etc.).

For some reason, a lot of games cannot get this balance right, which is why you have tons of games with ineffective weapons, and bullet-sponge enemies that make fighting them feel more tedious than it should be. Doom 1 was great from the very start because the monster and weapon balance meant that the action always felt satisfying and it still does to this day.

Another thing that annoyed me about Doom 4 is that people always claim that it's a call-back to the original game, while it never felt that way to me. The designs are very off, and most of the monster-designs feel like they designed it to look "cool" instead of intimidating (just look at what they did to the Cyberdemon...). The player design also looks stupid, and yes he does look like bloody Master Chief with that full body armour. I guess they have to make it cool for the kiddies...

Story-wise it's also stupid, if you ask me. I bet some of you are now thinking "who cares about story in Doom?", but I do care about it because it sets the context of the game. A game's story doesn't have to be Shakespeare to work well, and the first Doom game told just enough of a story to give you a context of why you're there and why you're shooting things. You're a lone marine desperately fighting for a way out.

Now, here comes Doom 4: you're not a marine, you're some sort of overpowered bad-ass... alien (?) and prophecy has foretold that you're the one who all the demons fear (or something). Ugh, it's so bloody lame! I don't want to play as some alien, I want to play as the marine fighting against the odds! Right from the get-go, Doom 4 established that the player has supernatural powers. This set-up just completely ruins it for me, because what made Doom's set-up great is that you're just a marine. You're human. It's just you against everything else. In Doom 4 the plot is basically: "You're this infamous alien bad-ass, and prophecy has foretold you're going to kick all the demon's butts!". It feels like such a unnecessarily childish power-fantasy to me.

I am aware that I currently don't have that much of a basis for my criticism, since I haven't played Doom 4 yet. However, I do think that the issues I pointed out give me enough reason why I would never prefer it over regular Doom, even if I did play it. I think I can say that much with confidence.

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joe-ilya said:

No way, your comparison isn't complete, you forgot to say that you can easily modify the car and enhance it in endless ways, while the newer car can't have that done to it, so it automatically makes the new car less worthy.

You also forgot the comparison that the older mustang had modification tools that were 15 years in the making with multiple programmers involved. While the new car just came out and is more complex in engineering than the old car.

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jazzmaster9 said:

You also forgot the comparison that the older mustang had modification tools that were 15 years in the making with multiple programmers involved. While the new car just came out and is more complex in engineering than the old car.


And, to be fair, its limiting factor is only in the amount of visual parts you can put on the car, the actual performance (Scripting) has a surprising amount of fine tuning potential.

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