Red Cross Changes

[Wild Dog]

Da Werecat said:

Recent official ports are fucked up in a number of ways, but people cling to the pills. Makes total sense.

What do you mean? I played most of the recent official ports of the Classic Doom Games and they are almost bug free. If you talking about some custom wads not working or some special detail not being present, is not that important to be honest. Since those ports were made just to play the original Wads as close as possible to the original release.

[Da Werecat]

BFG Edition for PC: sounds don't fade with distance, they're either at full volume, or can't be heard. This is an actual broken thing, not some aesthetic change to a small bunch of pickup sprites.

Then there are SSG sounds that play at the wrong frequency, horrendous random pitching that can't be turned off, static intermission maps, No Rest For The Living using the wrong music tracks, et cetera, but I guess the relative importance of these things may vary depending on your attachment to the red-crossed medikits.

[Wild Dog]

Da Werecat said:

BFG Edition for PC: sounds don't fade with distance, they're either at full volume, or can't be heard. This is an actual broken thing, not some aesthetic change to a small bunch of pickup sprites.

Then there are SSG sounds that play at the wrong frequency, horrendous random pitching that can't be turned off, static intermission maps, No Rest For The Living using the wrong music tracks, et cetera, but I guess the relative importance of these things may vary depending on your attachment to the red-crossed medikits.

The SSG sound that is not even an issue (Yes it Sounds odd), the same can be said for the Nerve music tracks. They are at the same level as the red cross. They are far far from being an issue even more if we take in consideration that BFG is sort of a "Value Pack"

About the Sound not fading with Distance, i didn't pay attention to that but still not that big a deal for someone that is going to play Doom for the first time.

[40oz]

I don't use BFG edition so I can't comment on the other stuff, but I still really don't like the pills. A green or blue cross our no logo at all would have been much better.

[RUSH]

The pills are such an eyesore. I actually die a little inside each time I see them.

Then again the whole BFG edition is complete shit anyway so whatever.

[Linguica]

Kind of weirdly, in Doom 2016 they removed the red crosses on the medikits in the classic maps, but instead of replacing them with a pill icon like in the BFG Edition, they instead replaced them with a... single red pixel?

[40oz]

Linguica said:

Kind of weirdly, in Doom 2016 they removed the red crosses on the medikits in the classic maps, but instead of replacing them with a pill icon like in the BFG Edition, they instead replaced them with a... single red pixel?

Yeah wtf is that?

[RUSH]

Pure laziness, probably.

[VGamingJunkie]

Seems as though that's largely the motto of the new id team considering the BFG Edition censors. Then you look back to Doom II GBA and the censoring is actually well made, the Wolfenstein levels are more or less intact, the SS Guards weren't even touched and it still managed to get a German release so why couldn't the BFG Edition do that? Knowing id now, they'd probably just make monsters disappear (Immediately, not the way the GBA game actually does it) after dying instead of bothering to recolor the blood.

[kb1]

fraggle said:

A lot of games do not actually use the symbol correctly. The red cross is a symbol of humanitarian protection, not of healing and medicine; the purpose is supposed to be to allow non-combatants to be distinguished on the battlefield and not targeted for attacks. Medics providing aid to injured people are one example but another example is military chaplains.

The use of it on health kits is inaccurate as real life medikits don't even use the red cross, for the most part. It's also regularly grossly misused for medics in games too. The red cross is supposed to indicate that the person wearing it is a non-combatant (ie. unarmed). Team Fortress 2 is the only game I know of that comes vaguely close to having a medic in a mostly non-combatant role, but even then the syringe gun and bone saw mean that's not strictly the case. Real life combat medics who carry weapons do not wear the red cross symbol to respect the terms of the Geneva conventions.

I understand. But, still, it's use in games was *favorable*. In other words, things with the red cross on them were "nice" things.

To "fix" the Doom medikits, just put 4 red pixels: One at 2 o'clock, one at 4, one at 8, and one at 10 o'clock. That makes it almost diamond-shaped, yet very similar to the original. Should be enough.

[Da Werecat]

Wild Dog said:

The SSG sound that is not even an issue (Yes it Sounds odd), the same can be said for the Nerve music tracks. They are at the same level as the red cross.

Bugs are at the same level as a small aesthetic change?

Wild Dog said:

About the Sound not fading with Distance, i didn't pay attention to that but still not that big a deal for someone that is going to play Doom for the first time.

First timers won't notice a lot of things, because they won't know that something's missing. But bugs will still hurt their experience, whether they realise it or not, unlike a small aesthetic change.

[Maes]

A nice alternative would be a Valentine red heart. Since time immemorial hearts signified "lives" in video games, so why not in Doom? After all, there's a "nurse imp" that heals you by throwing hearts on some ZDaemon servers ;-)

[fraggle]

Maes said:

A nice alternative would be a Valentine red heart.

Although...

[Da Werecat]

I know it's an old post, but still.

printz said:

Because it makes Doom look too much like a console arcade platformer.

I though Doom was supposed to be this arcadey videogamey arcade videogame. That change would be right at home in some of the recent wads.

[Zed]

I might be missing something, or maybe I'm just being stubborn or annoying and that's why nobody has answered my question, but I think that if we are not going to stop using "classic" medkits and stimpacks, this topic seems pointless to me.

[Linguica]

Zed said:

I might be missing something, or maybe I'm just being stubborn or annoying and that's why nobody has answered my question, but I think that if we are not going to stop using "classic" medkits and stimpacks, this topic seems pointless to me.

Thanks for your opinion about this thread's validity.

[Gez]

Real world examples:

-White on green:


-White on red:


-White on blue:


-White on black:


-Red on red with white outline:


-And even red on white:


The one constant is the + cross. The cross itself is always made of five squares (each arm is the same area as the middle section) and is usually, but not always, white. Red on white is kind of a special case: only from Johnson & Johnson, who had trademarked that symbol and even sued the Red Cross organization about it, but it does exist.

[Maes]

Just put smiling yellow faces on them. After all, they make Doomguy feel good and act suspiciously quickly...

[Wild Dog]

Da Werecat said:

Bugs are at the same level as a small aesthetic change?

First timers won't notice a lot of things, because they won't know that something's missing. But bugs will still hurt their experience, whether they realise it or not, unlike a small aesthetic change.

Those ones yes they are. Not even a big deal. Not all the bugs are in the same league or you think that a bug that sends you to a blue screen is the same as a bug that mess up a bit the sound of a weapon?

First timers? Been playing Doom since early 94, i'm new here, but trust me i'm far from being a first timer when it comes to Doom.

[Da Werecat]

Wild Dog said:

Not all the bugs are in the same league or you think that a bug that sends you to a blue screen is the same as a bug that mess up a bit the sound of a weapon?

No, I do not think that. I was comparing these particular bugs to a small aesthetic change that's also hardly a big deal, yet people are complaining about it all the time.

Wild Dog said:

First timers? Been playing Doom since early 94, i'm new here, but trust me i'm far from being a first timer when it comes to Doom.

You started talking about first timers. I was addressing your point.

[Wild Dog]

Da Werecat said:

No, I do not think that. I was comparing these particular bugs to a small aesthetic change that's also hardly a big deal, yet people are complaining about it all the time.

Agree on that, the pill is a small detail. They are complaing about it because well dunno....

Got Doom 3 BFG just to test it. And i don't know why some people dislike it that much.
It's a value Pack, that was intended to get new gamers to taste Doom franchise. The ports of Classic Doom was NICE, glad they didn't went to cheap route and just add Dosbox....
They even modified the Flashlight so people wouldn't complaing about having to switch to the weapons.

I guess Doom 3 and it's offsprings are misunderstood childs.

[Da Werecat]

Wild Dog said:

The ports of Classic Doom was NICE, glad they didn't went to cheap route and just add Dosbox....

Well, at least there's that.

I heard PS3 received a more polished port, but I never saw it.

[Benjogami]

[scalliano]

[Captain Red]

^^^ Scallianos' are pretty rad actually.

[Avoozl]

I like white on red.

[Technician]

They should have just sourced the project out to one of the forum members and received a much better job. I guess the BFG was a quick gimmick to raise interest in Doom 2016, though.

Avoozl said:

I like white on red.

[Zed]

Linguica said:

Thanks for your opinion about this thread's validity.

I was thinking about this, what I mean is, is it illegal for us to use stimpacks / medkits in maps? Is the Doom community breaking any laws by using those items in levels?

I apologize if I'm saying something stupid, I'm asking because I really don't understand how this applies to us.

[Swine & Roses]

Mappers only place actors which draw their sprites from your IWAD.
Those sprites aren't actually included with your map, so I don't see the problem.

[Tracer]

Could have just used an orange or white cross.