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rdwpa

Eden

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https://www.dropbox.com/s/nqivet41ueo0pvj/Eden_B3f.wad?dl=1

Old versions for earlier FDAs:

Large slaughter hybrid map. If that's your cup of tea, start on UV. -complevel 9. Build time: many dozens of hrs.



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nice and stylish. I really enjoyed the surreal grassy scenery, the water/fountains/mysterious-hangy-things.

nice big slaughter fights. left with a bajillion enemies alive, so I bet I missed lotsa neat secret areas. The green area pretty punishing wrt ammo. particularly after grabbing the green skull and having to contend with AVs planted in the most inconveniently located stack of rev corpses (though I guess with foresight you could kill the revs elsewhere to make that a non-issue).

Here's an fda with saves: http://www.mediafire.com/download/pmynh2t2vn77m18/edenb1_fda_saves_rbk.lmp

I die a lot, but the map is muuuuch smoother once you know what's going to happen. But yeah, great map. feels stylistically like it's in line with those recent speedmaps you made (that were also blue, somber music, etc).

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well i am a noob when it comes to demos + saving so here have a DNF. do you just F10 out after each death and hit the .bat again each time?

got to the green area and was fucked with no ammo so i guess i messed the progression up?

i also noticed performance was quite jittery on my pc - checked the minimap and its the circles, the circles! something i noticed hits performance (oddly enough on mr ribbik's maps in Sunlust, the floating green circly one :p )

i like it! will try again and do a SDA (second demo attempt?)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bwztdn0d9r180mv/eden_b1-rehelek-fda1.lmp?dl=1

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Ribbiks said:

nice and stylish. I really enjoyed the surreal grassy scenery, the water/fountains/mysterious-hangy-things.

nice big slaughter fights. left with a bajillion enemies alive, so I bet I missed lotsa neat secret areas. The green area pretty punishing wrt ammo. particularly after grabbing the green skull and having to contend with AVs planted in the most inconveniently located stack of rev corpses (though I guess with foresight you could kill the revs elsewhere to make that a non-issue).

Here's an fda with saves: http://www.mediafire.com/download/pmynh2t2vn77m18/edenb1_fda_saves_rbk.lmp

I die a lot, but the map is muuuuch smoother once you know what's going to happen. But yeah, great map. feels stylistically like it's in line with those recent speedmaps you made (that were also blue, somber music, etc).


lol, that tiny invisible column was a teleport sector joiner accidentally modified. tyty was fun to watch. A lot of the ammo is in the secret areas, which everyone should try to find. :)

rehelekretep said:

well i am a noob when it comes to demos + saving so here have a DNF. do you just F10 out after each death and hit the .bat again each time?

got to the green area and was fucked with no ammo so i guess i messed the progression up?

i also noticed performance was quite jittery on my pc - checked the minimap and its the circles, the circles! something i noticed hits performance (oddly enough on mr ribbik's maps in Sunlust, the floating green circly one :p )

i like it! will try again and do a SDA (second demo attempt?)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bwztdn0d9r180mv/eden_b1-rehelek-fda1.lmp?dl=1


With FDAs it's customary to keep recording. Yeah I was in a circly mood. :) Watching now.

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rdwpa said:

With FDAs it's customary to keep recording. Yeah I was in a circly mood. :) Watching now.


yeah sorry i didnt make myself clear; i got into a weird loop with the demo and stopped using the file so i didnt ruin it somehow!

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Here's a fda

http://www.mediafire.com/download/ay57t3sblf753ta/eden_mouldy.lmp

Looks nice. I had fun the first few times but I was surviving on luck mostly, and when it came to actually formulating a proper way to approach it I couldn't find one that didn't annoy me, mainly due to never having enough ammo or cover to deal with the archviles.

I did get a little holiday outside the central zone though.

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Very cool! I like the eerie atmosphere of this map. Playing with Gzdoom it doesn't let me press the key switches dunno why.

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Using "Doom" or "Doom (Strict)" compatibility seems like a possibility.

gaspe said:

Where's the sky from?


It's the episode 2 sky from cc4-tex.

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FDA (for Eden_B1hf) and it's a long one. First attempt I died in the big slaughter arena secret; truly a genius decision to rush the AVs there... Second attempt is 40 minutes of pure cowardice and cheese but I get through the whole thing. Left with about 150 monsters still around because I was going to die for sure had I not exited.

Anyways, pretty neat map. I found 4/5 of the secrets but still would likely have ran out of ammo had I stuck around and tried to kill everything. I was pretty wasteful though so ehh... Not sure what to think of the green skull key placement. I was totally expecting a inescapable pit of death so I was very hesitant to cross the edge of the ledge. There is that teleporter pad on the Imp ledge too which doesn't do anything in the end I guess, but which I thought would have some significance. Really liked the BSK fight. not too tough of a fight but it can be punishing if you fuck it up. Ditto for the secret arena fight and a case in point for fucking it up can be seen in the demo. Cool "puzzles" in the outside islands although I have to admit that in my case the puzzle solving consisted more humping everything that looked suspicious and less actually knowing that what's happening. One of the tall grass islands didn't look quite right in glboom+ but I can't see any issue in DB so I dunno.

Edit: Just watched Ribbiks FDA... Okay so there's more ammo in the final area, I just couldn't see the stash as I was busy fleeing in terror.

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Some more FDAs recorded with Eden_B1hf.wad : here

My best attempt ended at the beginning of the second main area ( seems so at least ), the green crowded part with tons of Imps, Cacos, and groups of PEs and Viles.

Great map so far. I love this surreal, Ribbiks-like style.
Secrets are very well concealed, I thought I'd have found many when I got to the outskirts of the map but there's much more work to do it seems.

Noticed some HOMs, one in the Berserk cabin and the other near some remote green island, you'll see which one if you watch my first demo.
( I'm playing with PrBoom 2.5.0 with -complevel 9 )

Sadly I don't have enough free time to carry on today ( hence the careless playing style ), but I'll certainly retry. :)
These early Viles in the green part got me real good, but with this acquired foreknowledge I'm sure I'll be able to prevail.

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Ty guys.

Veinen said:

There is that teleporter pad on the Imp ledge too which doesn't do anything in the end I guess, but which I thought would have some significance. ... One of the tall grass islands didn't look quite right in glboom+ but I can't see any issue in DB so I dunno.


The teleporter should have gone to that island but it got broken somehow. Seems like it is a random nodebuilder error.

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Been wanting to test one of your maps for awhile, and waited for this one instead of going for the speedmaps.

I fought my way to the yellow key on UV, with a few deaths at the hands of Archies, then decided to start over on HNTR for a more casual experience. Got the yellow key this time without dying, and soon discovered that the yellow switch that lowers the teleporter doesn't work in GZDoom 2.1.1, at least on my machine.

I then did quick God-mode tests on PRBoom and GLBoom 2.5.1.3 and ZDoom 2.7.1, and then quickly upgraded to 2.8.1, and it worked on all of those.

Based on what I saw before I encountered the switch problem, this is a sweet map, lovely to look at, very Ribbiksian in many ways but not slavishly so. The encounters were challenging and, while setpiecey, still flowy thanks to the pathing and the roaming enemies. The MIDI was well-chosen because its calm pace is perfect for a map where you have over 900 monsters on UV. It takes time to kill all that meat, so best go with something that's not in your face and wearying over the long haul.

I look forward to getting back to this soon, either in PRBoom or ZDoom. I may go up to HMP since HNTR seemed too easy.

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Got some time at last, Faggot Dope Abbot is here for your watching displeasure.
And I mean it actually, hardly much interesting to be found in the demo as I seem to have missed the whole attraction here, not a single secret found (well, carefully hidden they are indeed, and... not that I tried really hard, I have to confess). Only mandatory fights and the main progression line with the balance between shitty and careful play more or less preserved on my part. Now that's a rare occasion. Considering the fact that all this supplementary clandestine warfare is all the rage nowadays, especially given the ribbiks-ian surrealism-out-of-curved-lines style - I probably failed the test miserably. Well, there will be a day when I'll dive deeper, that's for sure.
As for the parts I've actually seen - surprisingly lenient set of activities offered here, the most threatening (and arguably the most entertaining) part is the beginning of the green zone, many thanks to the AV squad attacking from the get-go. The rest is actually quite forgiving, allowing the player to both retreat and regroup, and the amount of the blue balloons around makes one far more confident unless the grave mistake in maneuvering is made (just watch me). The final fight can be pretty intimidating at first, the lost souls swarm + cybs has always been a scenario that's not as easy to predict as it may seem on paper, only this time around the flying bastards act more like a roadblocks restricting the player's maneuverability until disposed of, that's an interesting twist. Then again, once they're gone (and reinforcements of the same species from the adjacent pre-exit area got totally stuck, what a sight) - the fight becomes trivial. Very stretched-out, with scarce opposition and easy infighting opportunities. Seriously, those AVs guarding the exfiltration zone were much more of a stress when I managed to stumble upon them while being guided by a decision to leave the mess for good.
Well anyway, nice map that'd probably be even more interesting should the player care to spend more time uncovering its mysteries and ignore the highlighted path he's tasked to tread, I'm pretty sure there's harsher stuff waiting out there... somewhere. Good work, thanks for sharing.

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SteveD said:

I may go up to HMP since HNTR seemed too easy.


I was under the impression from the OP that this didn't have difficulty settings?

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mouldy said:

I was under the impression from the OP that this didn't have difficulty settings?


It's got 'em. The UV/HMP/HNTR monster counts are 990/776/654 on GZDoom. I'm wondering if the Archie load was increased from the first version to the second, because watching a bit of the Ribbiks FDA, it seemed to have fewer Archies whereas when I did the UV attempt, the bloody things were everywhere. ;D It should be noted that I also ran the Ribbiks FDA on the wrong version of the map, and it went out of sync after the big Imp swarm in the green area.

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Right, thats a shame, I'd have played on lower setting if I'd known.

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FDA

Cool map. Didn't really find any secrets except the one my peripheral vision caught. Not sure what I did to exit the map, but I wasn't really planning on exiting so it surprised me a bit. Arch-viles are dickheads.

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Very nice looking map. Took me just over an hour and I ended up grabbing 4/5 secrets. I really enjoyed the outer area with the islands in the water and the exploration/secret hunting there. One thing I would suggest, is placing a Plasma Rifle in the yellow secret fight, with the two Cybers and opening waves of enemies. I managed to hop out of the starting area quite early, find the key and end up there with basically no ammo and no PR, making that section impossible until a later return. Also, I was sitting at a rather low 20-30FPS during several parts of the first area in Zandronum. I rarely drop that low aside from over-the-top maps with geometry spam. Probably has to do with all the rounded sectors in the map, like the slowdown in Ancient Aliens when there were multiple UFOs. The Archvile use is quite heavy, but manageable. I have to admit I didn't like the PE/Lost Soul spam after leaving the cave, but that's a personal preference and gave me flashbacks to the Map 30 finale in Sunlust. Also, it would be nice if there was one Megasphere or something in the final Revenant area because I ended up playing the last encounter on 3% HP with all the Lost Soul chip damage.

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I ended up looking through db to find some of these secrets, and even that was slightly challenging to untangle :p returning the book to the library was particularly cute.

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Oh man, what a map rdwpa! I've never made a Cacoward nomination, but I might for this. Oh course that would also require you to, you know, officially release something for once, but hey, it's the thought that counts, right? Hehe.

Here is my 100-minute FDA-with-saves. Had to hold my nose up while playing from all the cheese (saves), but I came through with that incredibly sloppy clinch playing (not really). Little under 20 deaths; 18 I think it was.

Actual Spoiler:

Spoiler

I didn't actually understand the YK secret when I did it, though I did know something was up with a book (from Ribbiks's comment), which I remembered about while playing after hitting use on the table with the book and seeing it disappear, (though I didn't exactly understand that they were books at first. Also, I think one book was way too big compared to where you put it) but afterward I began to piece it together. I knew to look for a library, or at least a bookcase, though at the time I was thinking about the ones near the start. The final piece was put in place when I watched the demo and saw a particular texture that I hit use on without fully realizing what I did. Though I will say, if I had been paying better attention at the time, I should have noticed that some books were "missing." I really, really liked this secret, though, as well as the look of the area.

The shootable switch secret I actually thought was a spot on my screen. I went to wipe it and it remained, also it was moving so that probably should have been my clue, hehe. That was a really tricky place, though I'm glad you did put the trigger near the area marked as secret. I like that it is more easily seen when shooting, though.

The "well" secret, (at least I think that's a well) apparently I passed earlier in the demo without realizing it had lowered, but I did pick it up before finishing the map. (the ending kinda messed up for me, but at least it did appear to be the ending, so it wasn't tough to figure to go back there after seeing the last monster drop. That twist ending, though... lol. That made me jump)

The cybie arena secret was really cool. Extremely easy with the BFG, but I bet it would have been much more fun if I had done it when I first went to it (pre-BFG), rather than deciding to hold off on it 'til later.

I felt like the area near the start, in the center, down in the pool with the SSG and BA, should have been a secret, as well as a couple other spots, but it's not a bad thing. Speaking of that place, I really liked the encounter down there. The rush of bulls on one side, with the mancs on the other was a great way to start it out. Then following it up with the cacos, arachs, revs, and low-bies really made for an interesting set-up.

The beginning area was really, really cool. I'll talk about aesthetics in a bit, but the gameplay of it was very fun. I liked the placement of all of the initial monsters (though the CG's never shot that damn manc for me! lol) as well as the ones that teleport in (walk-overs, anyone? hehe). The use of architecture in the beginning greatly helped the impact each monster had to the gameplay, which was a cool thing.

I liked the strategies used in this map. The WK fight, for example, was cool in that the PE's, normally a high-priority target, get set aside for later as the player is forced to deal with the hitscans plus others from 2 flanks.

The area leading up to the BK was strangely familiar in appearance to two things: one, "Blank Space" and two I wanna say was a Stardate 20x6-or-7(?) map, though I forget which one in particular. I really liked the underside to the faux-3D floor there (that was the part that made me think of Stardate 20xX). I liked the fights there, too.

The far outside area of the first major section of map (aka the sea) was an interesting area. Truthfully that was the only spot on this map that could be considered Eden, when you consider that the green area which looks most like Eden is teeming with mobs, kek. This area was interesting to me because it was the only area of the map that felt like it had nothing going on, despite the 2 secrets and few enemies out there. I am likely using the wrong choice of words there, saying "it felt like it had nothing going on," but perhaps that should just be finished with "... in terms of difficulty and pressure, like the rest of the map," if that makes sense. I really liked it as-is; it is probably perfect, but I thought that it was an interesting choice of yours to leave that area so... what's the word I'm looking for... peaceful, perhaps? I'm not sure, but it was just an interesting twist to the map, especially given its ties to the green area via teleports and progression (being that you only access the area either right before, during, or after the green area, which makes it a sort-of bridge between areas). Like I said, nothing wrong with it, I'm just thinking perhaps too much on it. Was it to prevent the player from forgetting about the book? Or did the mobs just not handle the area well? Idk, t
Idk how I didn't see the wall with the hidden berserk and HK, but I could have sworn that I pushed "use" on that wall twice in the map, though after watching the demo apparently the first time I did not, lol.

There was a stark contrast between the two unconnected areas. I gotta ask, did you use 30,000 lines in the first area and only had a couple thousand left for the second or what the Hell happened? Hehe; I'm messing with you of course, but that was something I thought was really funny. It was also more apparent and looks much more intentional with the fact that not only were the two areas totally separated from one-another, they were also totally different in terms of gameplay. That second half was where things really took a turn for the "slaughter" (in a good way, of course!), heh.
I really liked the opening of the green area (all of the "placed" mobs); that was a fun puzzle to unravel. Idk why I didn't let the arachs up top kill more of the cacos, but it was probably due to either the alcohol, the pressure I was feeling at the time, or the wind; I'm not sure which one. Jumping down toward the blur sphere was a cool fight as well and I'm always happy to see that thing get use, though knowing you, at first I thought your intention was going to wind up being more sinister, heh. The time that it took for all of the CG's to appear there wound up being most of the time of the blur sphere, which was kind of a cool setup, but I feel like it would have been just a mite bit better if there were less to teleport in, ending it quicker and sending the player on to the mass of mancs with more time-left on the blur-effect. Apparently that SS up there with the mancs has a Fonze-magnet on it, too.

The area with the GK was cool, I always like to see hitscans with an AV. Fairly easy spot here too, though I still found a way to die in it, heh.

The fight after the GK was a good one. Always cool to be "invaded" by a large group of imposing enemies. Cybies always seem to equate to infighting in large areas like both this and the secret arena.

The final area was cool. Loved the AV mob at the end as well.

Btw, this was the only error I noted:

Spoiler


I thought it was the exit at first, but in retrospect it seems a strange marker for a secret. Cool though.

I would also randomly like to say that I loved the little moving floors in the start. One of my favorite little things about this map, heh.

Speaking of, I also loved most of the mechanics in this map (at least the ones I noticed ;D I suppose the best ones will never be apparent, but it's hard to fool me for too long). I'm pretty sure I even noticed a few triggers (chain-of-events, really) that were initially triggered by a monster. That's a very interesting depth to add to the mechanics of a map. Of course I also noted many delayed-action triggers in here too which were pretty sweet and I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if you used repeatable walk-overs in combination with "locks" as well. Really awesome mechanics at work here and I absolutely love it.


The aesthetics of this map were just as interesting as its gameplay. I loved the use of bright, shiny, colorful objects and the texturing of everything was just beautiful. Lotta very nice architecture in here as well and the layout of the level was just really cool. It's maps like this that prove that awesome aesthetics and really fun gameplay are not mutually exclusive concepts. There are tons of little things I could pick out about the aesthetics, but it would wind up as long as that spoiler, so I'm just gonna say I loved everything, including the massively-monotextured wallsTM of the green area, hehe (that area did have some sweet lighting and atmosphere, though. Also, I loved the architecture and layout of it).

All-in-all, this map was awesome and I wish you'd go ahead and turn all of these maps into a megawad and release it already! Hehehe. Cheers man.

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Cool, finally had time to watch the FDA in mostly one sitting w/o much speed-up. Thanks for the really detailed write-up. It's fun how I discover new things about the map from these and the FDAs, my favorite being how you can use the arachnotrons in the green region to infight with things upwards of 7000 map units away.

A few misc responses (sentences related to the same topic lazily connected with semicolons): The first region has 14k linedefs and the second has 10k, with sector counts being similarly proportionate; but yeah the contrast (and the thematic interrelations that tie things together) was intended. I think I'll need to stagger the chaingunner warps in the blur sphere fight more, because as is they infight a bit too easily, lol; I'll also add another 'tron spot; at least it's still very pressuring if you jump down there with many monsters still flying around. Yeah I wanted the ring of islands to be quite peaceful in comparison to the central island and the green region, mostly exploration punctuated by many small skirmishes.

A megawad, ah. I think I could actually start working on an episode and like it (and enjoy the process, more importantly!), which I couldn't have said circa Blank Space, but I have a laundry list of specific things to learn and improve at first before considering something like that :)

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Glad to do it man; I had fun on the map.

I was messing with you about the lines-used and all that, hehe. I knew what was going on; just couldn't resist the urge to poke fun where I could.

If you are planning to do more to this map before you continue to never release it (kek), I plugged a couple other demos of this map to see how others approached some parts of the level and I thought of a small few things:

- The book seemed to be an interesting thing, or more-so, people's reactions to it. Perhaps it would be best if it were slightly more noticeable? Then again when you see the books disappear off the table, it is a fair hint that something strange is going on. But that also means that the player would have to identify them clearly as books. The problem I see with this is that no book is 24 pixels tall, in fact on the shelf they are about 8 pixels tall. The two smaller books seem fine to me, but the larger one should be fatter, not bigger. Might be an easy fix if you throw some extra lines on the book and texture it to make it look open, then it's size being 16 pixels tall (if "stood up") might not be so bad. Point is, something to better help players make the connection there. I actually thought the books were like a fragmented "key" or something at first.

- I didn't mention it before, but I like how mobs in beginning traverse the area

- The WK fight might be a bit tougher, but not too much, if you add in a couple imps on the far side of both groups of mobs that flank the player after hitting the cube-switch.

- The center area of the start: the arach's turret locations would be great places for items. The one by the lift could have, say a medikit, and the one on the far side, only reachable through climbing the walls all the way around, would be a great place for a large cell pack. Perhaps remove a large cell pack later on to offset this extra ammo.

I can see how you could enjoy making a megawad of this; I'd enjoy playing it, hehe. Best of luck to you as you progress.

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Some small bugs in B2

  • Lines 2620, 2636 have default STARTAN1 on them, not (presumably) GOTHBAR6
  • The door to the berserk box hut lowers too far, leaving a missing texture. This is only visible if you turn around before leaving the hut. Suggestion: use type 221 S1 lower to next lowest floor on line 14464.
  • There are two pairs of stuck sergeants / chaingunners on easy skill. Either remove the easy skill flag from things 769 and 770, or delete things 991 and 993.
  • Sector 1172 (tag 242) is missing a sky transfer.

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