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massivefanofdoom

Just thought of something re. story

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According to the lore, the acquisition of the crucible by hayden will 'crush the divide' aka make it easy for hell to just cross into other worlds?

Now the doomslayer must have really pissed off hell by deleting their argent reserves and must have a target on his back.

I think hayden sends him to earth, not via teleportation or anything, but via a shuttle perhaps. So he diverts hell's attention and he stays behind to rebuild the mars base/s? In the meantime doomslayer is again being used to thin the demonic herd.

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Allowing a demonic invasion on earth wouldn't make sense since Hayden is trying to provide unlimited energy to the people there.

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GuyMcBrofist said:

Allowing a demonic invasion on earth wouldn't make sense since Hayden is trying to provide unlimited energy to the people there.

Yeah you got a point there otherwise there's no point in harvesting in all that hell energy if you are gonna kill your customers in the end anyways.

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GuyMcBrofist said:

Allowing a demonic invasion on earth wouldn't make sense since Hayden is trying to provide unlimited energy to the people there.


Who said he hasnt gone bonkers and wants to create his own army of human/robot hybrids with the crucible's power? Game already hints at it, I believe in advanced research complex.

He doesnt seem to mind sacrificing people either for his schemes. We already seen this. And im not talking about doomslayer. Now he diverts an attack on him to earth while he keeps 'working'. A few dead on earth ... big deal for him. And doomslayer takes care of the demons, the remaining humans are the 'fittest' ones according to nature selection. Even better for him. He comes out as their saviour since he somehow tries to frame doomslayer (again). Think about it.

Either way you know hell on earth is next :P :P :P (well, most likely. Dont take everything I say literally. But id seems to be retconning lore but at the same time following the same overall structure.)

If this turns out to be the story, you naysayers all owe me a beer!

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massivefanofdoom said:

Either way you know hell on earth is next :P :P :P (well, most likely. Dont take everything I say literally. But id seems to be retconning lore but at the same time following the same overall structure.)

"Doom" and "Lore" are as compatible as two positively charged ions. You have the classic trilogy which has about as much plot as a porno, Doom3 is blatantly its own independent game, and Doom4 is quite clearly a "best of: Doom" with a plot thrown in about how the Doom Guy is the ultimate force of demon killing nature, with some substantial anecdotes of the characters. There really isn't any lore to start with, just some rather extensive references (and story at least for Doom3 & 4).

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Edward850 said:

"Doom" and "Lore" are as compatible as two positively charged ions. You have the classic trilogy which has about as much plot as a porno, Doom3 is blatantly its own independent game, and Doom4 is quite clearly a "best of: Doom" with a plot thrown in about how the Doom Guy is the ultimate force of demon killing nature, with some substantial anecdotes of the characters. There really isn't any lore to start with, just some rather extensive references (and story at least for Doom3 & 4).


You gotta start from somewhere. OK so they retconned the 'porno style plot's basic nuances' (LOL) and slowly started to develop an extensive universe with its own lore and deep story. I dunno bout you, but I read the codex a lot and there is so much backstory and reference to peoples and places now.

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massivefanofdoom said:

You gotta start from somewhere. OK so they retconned the 'porno style plot's basic nuances' (LOL) and slowly started to develop an extensive universe with its own lore and deep story. I dunno bout you, but I read the codex a lot and there is so much backstory and reference to peoples and places now.

Yeah, Doom 4 amped the background detail quite a bit. The one that strikes me the most is the mention of Seraphim... before then, there was not a trace whatsoever of Heaven in Doom. It was solely humans vs. Hell. But now we got a reference that suggests that Doomslayer was endowed with juggernaut-class powers by some analogue of angels... all a God's plan? Sounds like Painkiller (yes, that game also had a story). Still, I would prefer not to have angels in Doom. Just does not fit in here for me.
As for Hayden... if he wanted to cooperate, he would not restrain you and take Crucible from you in the end, and he would mention that Crucible is your old sword. The guy is using you. I am not convinced he conducts this gambit to prevent an energy crisis on Earth (I am getting a Dead Space vibe here - hell, DS2 and DS3 also had an Ironman mode!). Is there any mention of energy problems on Earth in any source that is not Hayden? He could be lying to us.
But what is this goal of his? Maybe his fascination with Night Sentinels is a clue... does he want to get automatons with Sentinels' power, like some kind of golems? Maybe the Crucible is the key to get such technology? Also - consider that Lazarus Wing was doing similar experiments already (vide Revenants). He was Olivia's superior, so had to knew about it, one way or another.
Maybe the guy just wants power, only in a way that omits doing pacts with a devil, by engineering Hell's power on his own. At least that would be smarter than making deals with demons, I must admit.

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I don't think Hyden make a deal with hell.The "demon voice"is clearly upset with Doomslayer coming in to hell realm and destroying everything not to mention Agrent 'd nur.Its very unclear what Haydens agenda is he works a bit like a g-man to me.As far as we know he might be lying about everything maybe in the time of Doom 2016 earth doesnt exist anymore at all and Argent energy is used for x purposes (very long shot but u cant really trust guy like Hayden).Keep in mind that who ever made a deal with hell has been absolutely ripped of - Doomslayer with his son and Olivia lady.Im think Hayden knows all about it and he probably led Olivia in to her oblivion...just to see what happens.

I think hell realm and other dimensions are too attractive to just go on earth now.I REALLY hope the next part will have nothing to do with earth and revel the story with the dark lord of the 4th age and who night sentinels actually are.

as much as Doomslayer having target on his back...thats been the case for eons of time i guess.

ps. it still have no bloody clue why night sentinels are wearing futuristic armour.

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I think Samuel Hayden is a third party in this whole thing.

He makes Doomslayer and Hell beat each other up, and when they're both weak, Samuel steps in takes advantage of both sides (Hell's Argent energy and possible experimentation on Doomslayer/forced to work for Samuel Hayden)

Kinda like the story in the Hunger Games with District 13.

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If Crucible really is a sword I wonder who actually build it.I don't think it was the "wretch who shall not be named".I hope it goes waaayy back to Argent 'd nut realm and sentinels.

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blackgoblinmagic said:

ps. it still have no bloody clue why night sentinels are wearing futuristic armour.


They are not humans remember. Just humanoid in appearance. Think predators and aliens that lived on earth in egyptian times and before, thats how a prequel will fit in imo and still not have to force us use hexen style weapons. Plasma shotguns and cannons and the like.

Earth is attractive to me :P We can still go to hell levels in between missions like we did in this chapter, but of course I wouldnt mind a bridge between the 2 ala ultimate doom .... now where was doomslayer sent to? Hmmm if not earth .... Hell again? Phobos or deimos? Somewhere else?

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blackgoblinmagic said:

If Crucible really is a sword I wonder who actually build it.I don't think it was the "wretch who shall not be named".I hope it goes waaayy back to Argent 'd nut realm and sentinels.


From what I understand, 'heretic' refers to anyone that is not demon and 'wretch' seems to refer to specifically people from Argent d'nur. Because they are referred to as such in another codex entry. A lot of players seem to think this individual = a traitor demon, but I do not think so. Maybe the 'Guardian' that slew the Great Serpent is some Night sentinel or even Seraphim lord who helped doomslayer and then died or was somehow captured by the demons and Doomslayer became their leadeR? (wears the 'crown of the night sentinels')

I wonder if this Guardian is the same one in Doom 3. Would be cool if demons captured him and tortured him and then transformed him into a (blind?) demon like they did with his son turning him into Icon Of Sin. Again, this detail and the possible overlying Angel/Demon setting reminds me of Blizzard's Diablo universe lore.

Anyways, the 'wretch who shall not be named' imbued the doomslayer 'with sword and shield of adamantine strength' which may refer to the crucible sword and his praetor suit. Shield being figurative here, not literal. Body armor 'shields' you from damage. He might have forged them himself if he was indeed a traitor demon, or else stole them or forced another demon to make them ... assuming they came from hell.

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Edward850 said:

"Doom" and "Lore" are as compatible as two positively charged ions. You have the classic trilogy which has about as much plot as a porno, Doom3 is blatantly its own independent game, and Doom4 is quite clearly a "best of: Doom" with a plot thrown in about how the Doom Guy is the ultimate force of demon killing nature, with some substantial anecdotes of the characters. There really isn't any lore to start with, just some rather extensive references (and story at least for Doom3 & 4).

Dude, do you really have to be so negative on everything in this forum?

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massivefanofdoom said:

Anyways, the 'wretch who shall not be named' imbued the doomslayer 'with sword and shield of adamantine strength' which may refer to the crucible sword and his praetor suit. Shield being figurative here, not literal. Body armor 'shields' you from damage. He might have forged them himself if he was indeed a traitor demon, or else stole them or forced another demon to make them ... assuming they came from hell.



This is very cool.have u notice when the second u put up a helmet (take a look on yt) it seems as the runes turn in to readable letters?Its odd since when u "wake up" u can still see letters as normal.Might be minor detail but it seems that armor is uber high tech(if not alive haha) and seems like adobtable to the place where u are...a black magic indeed.

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blackgoblinmagic said:

This is very cool.have u notice when the second u put up a helmet (take a look on yt) it seems as the runes turn in to readable letters?Its odd since when u "wake up" u can still see letters as normal.Might be minor detail but it seems that armor is uber high tech(if not alive haha) and seems like adobtable to the place where u are...a black magic indeed.


Yeah that armor has got some sinister history. I want to know more about it and the crucible! Hope we get to use the crucible and carve some demons up!

Hayden 'activates' the crucible into the sword it really is and walks off as if to do battle....

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NodEliteX5 said:

Dude, do you really have to be so negative on everything in this forum?

That wasn't negative. ;)

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Edward850 said:

That wasn't negative. ;)

I normally don't agree with Massivefanofdoom but he's just talking about the lore regardless if you love it or hate it, yet here you are debunking this subject like it doesn't deserve to be talked about in any shape or form even if we are just speculating or thinking of theories that are neither true or false. If you view this as pointless to discuss because of your comparison to a porno story then why even bother posting on the thread?

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Because the OP was only talking about just Doom4, which makes sense as this is a Doom4 forum about Doom4.

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NodEliteX5 said:

I normally don't agree with Massivefanofdoom but he's just talking about the lore regardless if you love it or hate it, yet here you are debunking this subject like it doesn't deserve to be talked about in any shape or form even if we are just speculating or thinking of theories that are neither true or false. If you view this as pointless to discuss because of your comparison to a porno story then why even bother posting on the thread?


Thanks for the backup and concern. But i dont think he was being negative, he actually made me laugh haha. I think he was just pointing out his opinion that doom's story is not important, and never will be, to which i pointed out i disagree (when it comes to this new modern franchise). I missed his other posts or didnt pay attention but he dont seem like a negative guy. Pls guys dont argue its not worth it. Just a small misunderstanding.

Fwiw i dont have nothing against you and you are the only member i feel sorry for treating the way i did because i thought you were being condescendinng with 'you will just have to wait' and i was ticked off already at being called a retard by buffoonr. Everyone else was just ganging up on me and regardless of me 'whining' or not theres no need to call people stupid and try escalate them. You were the only guy tho i was like 'ehh i oughta take that back i just was in the wrong there' now i better shut up because that drama passed and i dnt wanna revive it but had to say that. Tnx

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massivefanofdoom said:

Thanks for the backup and concern. But i dont think he was being negative, he actually made me laugh haha. I think he was just pointing out his opinion that doom's story is not important, and never will be, to which i pointed out i disagree (when it comes to this new modern franchise). I missed his other posts or didnt pay attention but he dont seem like a negative guy. Pls guys dont argue its not worth it. Just a small misunderstanding.

Fwiw i dont have nothing against you and you are the only member i feel sorry for treating the way i did because i thought you were being condescendinng with 'you will just have to wait' and i was ticked off already at being called a retard by buffoonr. Everyone else was just ganging up on me and regardless of me 'whining' or not theres no need to call people stupid and try escalate them. You were the only guy tho i was like 'ehh i oughta take that back i just was in the wrong there' now i better shut up because that drama passed and i dnt wanna revive it but had to say that. Tnx

It's all water under the bridge man no worries.

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NodEliteX5 said:

It's all water under the bridge man no worries.

Ok thats good to hear :) cool.

So yeah. I wonder if 'doom 2' next or if phobos/ deimos or if better yet, something entirely different. Titan or tei tenga or tharsis tholus are all other places referenced ingame.

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I just realized that at the very beginning of the titans realm level that despite combat being shown in the launch trailer and the ending credits that there's combat in the beginning yet when you actually play the level there's nothing there. Any explanation as to why that is?

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NodEliteX5 said:

I just realized that at the very beginning of the titans realm level that despite combat being shown in the launch trailer and the ending credits that there's combat in the beginning yet when you actually play the level there's nothing there. Any explanation as to why that is?


Yeah i realised that too, i was upset about it. My guess is the developers changed it at the last minute. And maybe initially that wasnt the starting hub of the level. But it would have been cool, for a change of pace, to start off a level with a huge fight from the get go.

Also noticed on the official page they still use old footage from the kadingir level used in the e3 of i think was it 2014? Different colours back then, imps looked different, hp drops were different too. Check it out.

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massivefanofdoom said:

Yeah i realised that too, i was upset about it. My guess is the developers changed it at the last minute. And maybe initially that wasnt the starting hub of the level. But it would have been cool, for a change of pace, to start off a level with a huge fight from the get go.

Also noticed on the official page they still use old footage from the kadingir level used in the e3 of i think was it 2014? Different colours back then, imps looked different, hp drops were different too. Check it out.

The imp design in the E3 version looked very similar to their DOOM 3 counterparts before they overhauled their looks for the final release.

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NodEliteX5 said:

The imp design in the E3 version looked very similar to their DOOM 3 counterparts before they overhauled their looks for the final release.

To me, they looked like smaller versions of this game's Hell knight.

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