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MadHatter

editing strife inside a box of milk

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DETH 4.24: does it really support strife? or is just a bunch of fucking lies? if it does, is it like full support or just the basic features (doors, lights, other cunts) and a few of the strife features?

i tried deepsea, but man, its too fucking hard! i tried to like it, ya know, but i got used to wadauthor. in deepsea i cant even make a nice fucking room 'cause of the fucking way it handle's the sectors and the linedefs and the other shit.

if you know another editor that supports strife, dont be shy and write about it.

thanks.

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1. deepsea has the easiest to use sector drawing system out there, bar none, except for my own personal utilities of course :).

2. if you're curious, why dont you try loading up strife in deth? that way you'll know for sure if it works.

3. wadauthor is retarded.

4. deth is basically deepsea minus the cool drawing mode. (although the author constantly denies it, it _is_ a deu clone, like deth, and it's very obvious when you run it that it is)

5. iirc deepsea's support for strife is greater than deth's only as far as thing types, linedef types, sector types, etc., go. so if you want good strife editing in deth make a strife config file based upon the info in the deepsea config file.

6. come to think of you could probably do this with wadauthor as well if you wanted to.

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mmnpsrsoskl said:

WTF? No it ain't.


it took me about 2 minutes in wadauthor before i found out that no how no way would it select certain L-shaped sectors in my level. Other than just not running, that's the worst problem i've seen in any map editor.

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RailGunner said:

yes it is! you cannot draw sectors!!!!!

Dude, right click, new rectangular sector, press x on a selected linedef for more linedefs, move vertexs into position.

Fuck.

Drawing sectors...is stupid in my opinion.

And I have the same problem, with the not being able to select sectors, you just have to move a linedef out, so the sector is bigger...

Bleh. Wad Author has it's problems, but it's still pretty fucking good.

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esayeek said:

4. deth is basically deepsea minus the cool drawing mode. (although the author constantly denies it, it _is_ a deu clone, like deth, and it's very obvious when you run it that it is)

LOL. Not only do I deny it, it's NOT TRUE. Just because it copies the common shortcut keys (and why not), it's far removed from DEU/Deth. In fact, Deth COPIED DeePsea guys ... period, hence the confusion:)) Here's a little page I saved for this kind of rubbish: http://www.sbsoftware.com/rant1.html Now if you still want to argue it's the same, you aren't paying attention:) Or better yet, post some screen shots of Deth so everyone can compare:)))

(edit: the above link is a bit harsh .. sorry about that)

5. iirc deepsea's support for strife is greater than deth's only as far as thing types, linedef types, sector types, etc., go. so if you want good strife editing in deth make a strife config file based upon the info in the deepsea config file.

Deth authors flat out LIED about Strife support (in the little competition we were having). There's NOTHING in Deth to support Strife (other than basic level info). Not only that, even if you copy the types as suggested, it still won't work, since the graphic format is different. Since there is no config file and there is no graphics support for Strife, doesn't that make you wonder why Strife support is claimed?

6. come to think of you could probably do this with wadauthor as well if you wanted to.

Nope, same reason. Won't support the graphics.

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MadHatter said:

i tried deepsea, but man, its too fucking hard! i tried to like it, ya know, but i got used to wadauthor. in deepsea i cant even make a nice fucking room 'cause of the fucking way it handle's the sectors and the linedefs and the other shit.

Let's compare apples to apples shall we. Use the PREFAB tools if you think it's so hard to draw. The DeePsea prefab tools are way more flexible vs WA. You can actually move and resize them interactively before you commit the prefab. Plus there's a larger variety. In addition, you can drag a vertex on top of a line and it automatically splits.

So for prefab people use the prefabs. Btw, the current version is 11.65 NOT the version that's posted here on DW (which is obsolete). sbsoftware.com

Btw, it took me a LONG time to reverse engineer all the Strife stuff.

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deep said:

something screwed up and I can't delete it:)

Now only Mods/Admins can delete posts...If you want to sorta delete it, change the text to : I deleted this post or something...

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I realized something about deepsea, the strife support is not complete, i made this room, put this guy in it and tried to make him use one of the simple dialogs the game has but i coudlnt because the scripting is not in there (maybe im blind). the deepsea makers should make a few demo maps for the game to show the features and how you do the scipting and stuff.

anyway. i got this friend of mine who knows programing and he said he was going to fix me up a copy of wadauthor with strife support. i dont know how he is going to do it, im not gonna ask 'cause i dont know shit about programing or technical stuff, so my problem is solved now.

thanks for the help dudes. will release something soon (for doom). and its gonna rock! (no plain first maps or shit like that)

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MadHatter said:

I realized something about deepsea, the strife support is not complete,

If you mean I didn't do the scripting you are correct. Hardly anyone even knows about Strife, so not worth the effort. If you look at the Scripts lumps you might be able to figure it out:)

Adding new type files for WA WILL NOT WORK. (Your friend doesn't have the source, so no programming change possible). The texture graphic differences mean you'll have a good chance of crashing at random times in the textures.

The format for the REGISTERED Strife is NOT the same as for DOOM, although the early beta/shareware one is. But that version doesn't support everything.

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WadAuthor sucks in my opinion. Hell, the first time I tried to create a new rectangular sector the damned thing crashed on me! Same thing happened when I tried to make a new polygonal sector. The thing crashed on me. Furthermore, it sometimes crashes on me before I can even get the main map editing screen! WadAuthor blows compared to DeePSea.
All of this is of course, my experiences with the editor, and therefore, my views and opinions so don't blame me.

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jesus motherfucking christ, i hate this!

nobody cares if you like deep instead of wadauthor, nobody cares if i like wadauthor instead of this other crap, i know wrote about it, but who cares anyway?. we get nothing out from all this shit, so why dont we all just shut the fuck up and move along!

damn

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Heh, if you want to select sectors in WAuth that are shaped oddly or whatever press ctrl^F and then select the radio button that says 'sectors' then it'll filter out to whatever sector the mouse is over. Very helpful.

As for which editor is best, blah blah blah, who cares what other people think, use the one you feel most comfortable with. I used Waded for years but now that I have win2k I can't run it so I use WAuthor. It takes me way longer to build maps (or map) but it's stable enough (especially compared to Waded, which is horrible) and all is well.

I used a version of Deep a while back and I didn't like it too much, plus the limits on the free version suck a nut and I'm not about to pay for a Doom editor either, so whatever, I won't get into it anyway, it's been done to death I'm sure.

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mmnpsrsoskl said:

You use Wad Author?

LOL - that may go over his head - or he has to admit he's a crook:))

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deep said:

LOL - that may go over his head - or he has to admit he's a crook:))


Pff, over my head. WAuthor has no shareware limits (as deep does) and I can just reunzip it when it expires. :P Beat the system! Besides, a lot of editors not supported any more (which is pretty much them all) all require you to pay for some such features or whatever, but um, it's Doom. I mean, editors come with most fps games now, and with no limits on them either, and those are modern games, so why would I pay to edit an outdated, archaic game like doom?

But like I said, retreading old ground.

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Cyb said:

Pff, over my head. WAuthor has no shareware limits (as deep does) and I can just reunzip it when it expires. :P Beat the system!

It's called being a CROOK. Period. Clearly basic morals are over your head, since you insist on bragging on being a crook.

so why would I pay to edit an outdated, archaic game like doom?

LOL - so why are you PLAYING an archaic game or why do you want to edit it? Seems sort of a ridiculous argument to me.

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4. deth is basically deepsea minus the cool drawing mode. (although the author constantly denies it, it _is_ a deu clone, like deth, and it's very obvious when you run it that it is)

If I remember correctly, the earliest releases of Deep were modified versions of DEU and this was freely admitted at the time. I've never seen Jack deny that Deep is based on DEU.

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NiGHTMARE said:

If I remember correctly, the earliest releases of Deep were modified versions of DEU and this was freely admitted at the time. I've never seen Jack deny that Deep is based on DEU.


he just denied it in this thread. (not that it's based on it, but that it's basically the same thing)

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Following that logic, Windows 2000 is pretty much Windows v1.0 with a few fancy features.

I'd like to know exactly where the advanced resource editing tool (virtually an editor in itself), the 3d viewer, the automatic texture aligning, all the error checks, the sector and sidedef packing, the cool nodebuilder, and all the stuff in the DeepSea F5 'Options' screen are in DEU.

Surely the fact that so many different versions of Deep / Deep '97 / Deepsea have been released over the years speaks for itself of the incredible number of features that have been added ?

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NiGHTMARE said:

Following that logic, Windows 2000 is pretty much Windows v1.0 with a few fancy features.

I'd like to know exactly where the advanced resource editing tool (virtually an editor in itself), the 3d viewer, the automatic texture aligning, all the error checks, the sector and sidedef packing, the cool nodebuilder, and all the stuff in the DeepSea F5 'Options' screen are in DEU.

Surely the fact that so many different versions of Deep / Deep '97 / Deepsea have been released over the years speaks for itself of the incredible number of features that have been added ?


deu has an auto texture aligner, a similar error checking list (too many items on it for me to recall if it's exactly the same, but they're similar), and a nodebuilder that is just as bad as deepbsp (e.g. worse than BSP). sector packing is useless; find me one real level besides andrewb still sucks it that is not fubared by sector packing. that deep f5 options menu? there's just too many damn options. you could easily spend an entire day just looking through and setting all the options for your project. once in a while its a good idea for the creator of a editing program to just pick a sensible setting for something and stick with it.

and windows 2000 has been built entirely from the ground up multiple times since windows 1.0 and has so much more functionality it is rediculous, deep can't make near to the same claim.

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deu has an auto texture aligner

I think v5.21 was the last version of DEU I used, and I don't recall an auto texture alignment feature. Maybe it was added later

nodebuilder that is just as bad as deepbsp (e.g. worse than BSP)


Seeing as DeepBSP is actually based on BSP, is many times faster, and removes many more HOMs and Slime trails, I don't see how it can possibly be called 'worse'.

sector packing is useless; find me one real level besides andrewb still sucks it that is not fubared by sector packing.

Any level with no monsters in it (i.e. most DM levels).

that deep f5 options menu? there's just too many damn options. you could easily spend an entire day just looking through and setting all the options for your project.

First you complain that it isn't different enough and then you say there are too many extra options? Lol.

There aren't "too many". If you're a beginner, you don't really even need to touch it, apart from simple things like changing the game.

Once you know what you're doing, you'll only have to change the options to what you want once and then you'll never have to touch them again.

once in a while its a good idea for the creator of a editing program to just pick a sensible setting for something and stick with it.

I entirely disagree. A program user should be able to customise the program as much as they like, as long as they don't HAVE to customise it. You don't have to customise DeepSea at all.

and windows 2000 has been built entirely from the ground up multiple times since windows 1.0 and has so much more functionality it is rediculous, deep can't make near to the same claim.

The basic principle is still the same.

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NiGHTMARE said:

I think v5.21 was the last version of DEU I used, and I don't recall an auto texture alignment feature. Maybe it was added later



Seeing as DeepBSP is actually based on BSP, is many times faster, and removes many more HOMs and Slime trails, I don't see how it can possibly be called 'worse'.


Any level with no monsters in it (i.e. most DM levels).


First you complain that it isn't different enough and then you say there are too many extra options? Lol.

There aren't "too many". If you're a beginner, you don't really even need to touch it, apart from simple things like changing the game.

Once you know what you're doing, you'll only have to change the options to what you want once and then you'll never have to touch them again.


I entirely disagree. A program user should be able to customise the program as much as they like, as long as they don't HAVE to customise it. You don't have to customise DeepSea at all.


The basic principle is still the same.


i use deu 5.99

deepbsp gives me worse results than bsp 2.3

i forgot dm maps with the sector packing

the basic principle may be the same, but it's apples and oranges. even vermulen would have to agree that deep has much much more in common with deu than win2k has with win 1.0 (did they even call it that? win 1.0? i dunno)

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Hmm, what kind of errors does DeepBSP give you? The only problem I've encountered with the latest versions are very slightly HOMs (but they're much lesser than you get with BSP).

EDIT: eh, I meant slime trails, not HOMS ;)

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bleeding on one linedef on my map in progress. it's not particularly severe no, but bsp doesnt do it :)

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If you're a DEU fan, do you remember an unofficial modification someone made of it that did things like make the things square instead of round? AFAIK it was the first modification of DEU (including DEU 2) that worked with Doom 2.

The reason I ask is because I can't remember the name of this editor, and it's been bugging me for ages ;)

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NiGHTMARE said:

If you're a DEU fan, do you remember an unofficial modification someone made of it that did things like make the things square instead of round? AFAIK it was the first modification of DEU (including DEU 2) that worked with Doom 2.

The reason I ask is because I can't remember the name of this editor, and it's been bugging me for ages ;)


unfortunately, i did not get in on the ground floor, although it seems like a long time a go (but probably ~5-6 years or so). the first deu i used was a 4.x i think? something like that.

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