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NightmareZer0

Things that bother you about Doom

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What are some of the things that bother you about Doom? (And anything Doom Related. Example a Source Port feature).

-Icon of Sin
I hate the Icon of Sin really. I know its an old game and they were limited I guess but I think it is a shitty boss. A wall that shoots out Monsters is the best they could come up with? Why not one big bad ass Demon you have to fight with it's own Army.

-The Pistol
I absoultely hate the pistol. I think it looks like garbage. To me its the Depth of the Sprite. The sprite looks flat to me.

-Level Names
I hate how the Level names do not match the level. The Factory doesn't even remotely look like anything resembling a Factory.

-Doom II's Map Layout
I love how in the Ultimate Doom it was split into Episodes. The one thing I liked the most is how you fought a boss at the end of each episode. Doom II is just a clusterfuck of maps.

-3D Models
I think they look so out of place in the Doom Engine. Ugly as fuck. Oh yeah while I'm at it 95% of the Model Rips are ugly as sin too.

That is all I can think of off the top of my head. If I think of anymore I'll edit my post.

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The one thing I always hated about doom is how elevators are timed and can't be activated manually.
You lower a platform, step on it and wait.. wait.. till it moves. Eventually.

Also, texture filtering. Yuck.

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Yeah, texture filtering never looked good to me. I rarely use OpenGL though

Imp said:

-The Pistol
I absoultely hate the pistol. I think it looks like garbage. To me its the Depth of the Sprite. The sprite looks flat to me.

This I absolutely agree with, but the rest not so much.

Just for reference, there's a very similar thread from about a year ago with some interesting answers: https://www.doomworld.com/vb/doom-general/70248-things-id-got-wrong/

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-Hitscanners
I hate them. They can snipe you from other side of the map if they have a clear sight on you.

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RNG damage with massive swings like the BFG ball doing 100-800 or Revenant missiles hitting from 10-80. There's no place for that kind of crap outside turn-based RPG's, and even then it's annoying. If there's a mod that just averages out the damage values I'd autoload it with everything I play.

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Zapzop said:

-Hitscanners
I hate them. They can snipe you from other side of the map if they have a clear sight on you.


Agreed. This is also why I hate the chaingunners introduced in Doom 2.

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rileymartin said:

RNG damage with massive swings like the BFG ball doing 100-800 or Revenant missiles hitting from 10-80. There's no place for that kind of crap outside turn-based RPG's, and even then it's annoying. If there's a mod that just averages out the damage values I'd autoload it with everything I play.

This'd take all of like 5 minutes at most, unless you're really inefficient.

Or you don't mean in ZDoom ( or potentially Eternity or EDGE; dunno exactly if they can accept non-random damage values ). Then you might be digging through the source code.

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Probably everything I am going to write here has been posted on DW sometime, but I will voice my opinion if you do not mind.

- Arachnotron is too similar in functionality to Chaingunner, as it also fires nonstop on sight. It is actually a less dangerous enemy, because its weapon is not hitscan and it is much bigger, which means it is hard to position it as a sniper or in an ambush.
- Hellknights are too similar to Barons. They should be significantly faster to compensate for their lower health.
- Revenants are to lanky too have twice the health of a Pinky. Armour does not help them much if they are just a pile of bones! If their health values would be swapped it would actually make a sense, since that would turn Reveants into proper glass cannons and make Pinkies a bigger threat.
- Pinkies should deal damage when biting instantly, AND THEN multiple times before the animation ends. How is that for a dedicated melee monster?
- Lost Souls have too much health, I said so already in another thread. It should be down to around 70.
- Original SFX are too obnoxious to me to tolerate. Too cartoony. I always load PSX SFX wad. (not a surprise, because my first Doom was Final Doom on PSX - nostalgia actor is strong here)
- Arch-Viles are too durable, I think, for demons that have so little muscle they could be supermodels today. I would tone it down to around 400. Mancubui could get 700 instead.
- Blursphere gonna blursphere.
- Rockets having the same carry capacity as shotgun shells is absurd. I would change it to 60/120 for shells and 20/40 for rockets.
- Pistol s**** d***. So thoroughly tedious to use I would rather use my fists all the time.
- Chaingun is too slow. It should fire three times as fast. It is also misnamed, but in a good way - "Minigun" was probably a joke anyway, so screw it.
- That infinite chainsaw. Wow... I want one!

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The community seemingly just saying the same things over and over but everytime they say it like the first time is what I hate most about doom.

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Doomkid said:

That's definitely an improvement.

I always saw it as a face when I was very young:

http://i.imgur.com/nVQER9m.png


The entire sprite used to confuse me as a kid. The top of the sprite is supposed to be the end of the barrel, as if you're looking down it. Yet I would always just see the entire pistol sprite as the backside, if you know what I mean.

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The fact that the Doom engine (and even the most advanced source ports, although they try) isn't flexible, that is, modders have very limited options to modify game behavior at either high level or low level (including the engine's core logic that handles physics, ai, rendering, user interface, map format and other internal structures, etc.), bothers me for some time already.

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Woah, I love hitscanners. When they are well used, they add incredible dymanics regarding enemy placement.

Anyway, IMO, Some of original Doom's demons feels way too much bullet sponge for what they do: Demons (and specters), Cacodemon's and Baron of Hell. This is even worse because you don't have the Super Shotgun. From Doom 2 bestiary, you can also add Hell Knight. If these enemies aren't placed really well, the gameplay can get really boring quickly.

I agree with the Icon of Sin too. I hate it and never finished another level outside Doom II that has it.

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When I was a kid, I once paused the game when the pistol was halfway through its firing animation. I thought it looked like it's inflated.

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I already said what bothered me as a modder, now for what bothers me about Doom (and the Doom community's creations) as a player:

  • Many modern mapsets are poorly balanced for continuous playthroughs, which I (as a non-speedrunner) consider the primary way of playing mapsets, as opposed to pistol starting them for added challenge to this primary way.
  • Related to the above point: Death exits preventing the player from carrying his inventory across his whole journey through a mapset.
  • Few modern mapsets are made for ZDoom and using its advanced features to their potential. I understand that talented mappers want attention of speedrunners and demo-recorders and so they avoid ZDoom for its lack of good demo compatibility (which is another thing that bothers me), but still...
  • Half the monster types are unengaging to fight against in 99% of their appearances (Mastermind, Baron, PE, Lost Soul, Demon, Spectre, Arachnotron, Zombieman). I miss some fast low-HP melee-only enemies, flying low-HP ranged-attack enemies, and large high-HP highly-mobile-and-agile enemies.
  • Lifts and other types of moving floors or timed events cause spending a noticeable time waiting while not engaged in fighting.
  • The Invisibility powerup is counter-productive when fighting projectile-throwing monsters.
  • The pistol is too slow and weak, melee weapons are too hard to use in ports that don't fix the blockmap bug, and the BFG is game-breakingly overpowered in comparison with every other weapon (including the PG, which shares ammo type with it).

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- Projectile monsters pose a very low threat in (semi-)open layouts unless they are spammed; there's a pretty big gap between [revs, mancs, arachnotrons] and [chaingunners, viles, PEs].

- Not enough monsters with creative attack patterns. Lack of more antagonistic projectiles, such as the revenant missile. DeHacKed modification is very limited, even with MBF.

- Imps and chaingunners have a bit too much HP for the single shotgun to be tolerable to use against them in maxruns. Lost souls have way too much HP for their visual appearance.

- Bestiary and itemeryiary could be doubled or even tripled without too much functional redundancy.

- Same with the armory. Weapons are limited as it is, and worse, sometimes only three weapons are worth using in any capacity.

- Infinitely tall actors is something we get used to when mapping but when you stop and think about it, it robs you of a lot of not just creative setups but also cool ways of deploying incidental monsters.

- Low-pressure ground-based mixed mid-tier setups = effortless infighting.

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1.) lost souls have too much damn health :/
2.) the pistol is awful
3.) i get lost in maps super easily, but that's more of a me thing...
4.) i hate pain elementals
5.) barons have waaaay too much health

that's really about it, tho. the things everyone else is complaining about (hitscanners, projectile enemies, health of some enemies) really just makes no sense to me.

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scifista42 said:

Lifts and other types of moving floors or timed events cause spending a noticeable time waiting while not engaged in fighting.


I couldn't agree more with this. Nothing says unfriendly to speedrunners like a slow lift that you have to wait for just so you can progress.

Also timed-jump secrets are bothersome. They're the ones where you have to jump to a small opening, but you have to jump it 'just' right, and it's easy to overshoot and hit the roof of the opening or do it too little and fall short of it.

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rdwpa said:

Not enough monsters with creative attack patterns.

Doom 2 is still better than most shooters in this regard.

rdwpa said:

Bestiary and itemeryiary could be doubled or even tripled without too much functional redundancy.

Do you really have ideas for so many unique, non-gimmicky monsters?

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Da Werecat said:

Doom 2 is still better than most shooters in this regard.


Ok?

Da Werecat said:

Do you really have ideas for so many unique, non-gimmicky monsters?


Yes.

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I for one am not bothered by the fact that Lost Souls don't die with one shotgun blast. It makes them challenging and not some useless cannon fodder enemy. The mappers would've most likely used A LOT of them on maps if they are so weak. And it would become an enemy we would get bored with.

The only things that bother me are these
-Icon of Sin (the whole "shoot at the exact moment on a moving lift" is damn annoying)
-The Citadel (I have nothing to say for this)
-Spider Mastermind (for being a hitscanner, and an annoying one at that)

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rdwpa said:

- Low-pressure ground-based mixed mid-tier setups = effortless infighting.


It's a travesty! Lol.


Idk, I can't say I dislike anything about Doom itself, just mappers. If one can only do one facet of level creation, they should do themself a favor and find a partner to collab with so their hard work doesn't go to waste when people hate half of the map design.

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About the bugs: The "infinitely tall actors" and "flawed collision detection" when playing, Tutti-Frutti and Medusa when mapping , as well as lots of slime trails whenever I decide to make a non-90° angle. In my mapping process that happens rarely, though :]
The Lost Soul's HP not corresponding to its size. Either nerf it down a bit or make it bigger, dammit!
Hell Knights having so awful sounds. Especially the death one, it sounds like as if they were vomiting instead of dying. I hate HKs.
Masterminds being so weak. They should've had 5-6K HP and a stronger chaingun, like Wolf3D's bosses.
Doom 2's maps (especially 01-11) being so lame.
Doom 2's music being so lame.
The autoaim not reading your mind about whom do you want to shoot.
Only 6 save slots.

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Doomguy uses his left hand for punching and pistoling. He uses his right for everything else. Also, he manages to take his gloves off or put them on again when switching to or from the fist.

Things like this keep me up at night.

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Monsters jog on the spot before they wake up, for no real reason

Holding a running chainsaw doesn't wake up monsters but swinging your fist in the air does

When invisibility runs out you see the effect start to blink on your weapon, but other players don't see it.

Doomguy does not hold his weapons in a way that is consistent with either a right handed or left handed person.

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- Blockmap bugs.
- The bugs that I encounter in general.
- Elastic collisions, especially in the maps where it seems to be rampant.

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