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NightmareZer0

Things that bother you about Doom

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40oz said:

Come on dont get all hung up on this. You made a dumb and unwanted post. Move on.

The only thing that's dumb in this thread is reaction to that harmless post, with your response being the clumsiest attempt to catch up with a bandwagon I've seen in months.

40oz said:

Move on.

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You've got three posts in this thread (not including the deleted ones) taking hapless jabs at people without connecting to your original point. I don't think its my motives that need evaluating here.

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40oz said:

Edit
Can't believe so many people hate lost souls. They're my faves. Is having to kill them with a super shotgun rather than your regular shotgun so irritating?

Finally, soneone who likes them! Although not my favourite, they are at least have some "reputation" unlike the enemies you see in various games where the small guy is the weakest.

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Imp said:

-The Pistol
I absoultely hate the pistol. I think it looks like garbage. To me its the Depth of the Sprite. The sprite looks flat to me.


Hmm, wow. The pistol sprite has always been a personal favorite of mine. Probably the nostalgia.

I'm a bit bothered by the ending of Episode 4 of Ultimate Doom. Kind of anticlimactic the way the spider demon is stuck behind a wall. Would have been cool to see new weapons for Final Doom, but it isn't that big a deal really.

Doom II could have used some more dark/metal songs.

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40oz said:

You've got three posts in this thread (not including the deleted ones) taking hapless jabs at people without connecting to your original point. I don't think its my motives that need evaluating here.

What deleted posts?

Since you don't want to follow your own advice, perhaps you could provide links to those (undoubtedly unwarranted) jabs you're talking about.

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I think lost souls are cute and awesome, how they always attack each other and stuff. Now mancubi, those are the ones that become the most annoying monster when you least expect them to be. Too many times have I tried killing them point-blank with just three SSG shots, but they end up surviving it all the time and I have to waste another one. And they're more frequently used nowadays.

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- Most of the bugs, especially visplane/blockmap limits.
- Infinitely tall actors, which was even fixed in Heretic, a game which in some ways appears far more amateurish than Doom (such as the sky-tiling tutti fruity effect). I mean, as described in another thread, Doom actually has incredibly (relative to its engine) advanced monster sight detection. Surely John Carmack could've implemented realistic actor heights if Heretic did!

...

Not really something that bothers me (except in Doom (1)), but I had an idea for Lost Souls' health. They should keep the 100% health, but take 2x damage when charging. This would mean you'd wait until they shoot towards you, then you blast 'em with the shotty and they die in one hit, which would be very satisfying - it would be kind of reaction-based, depending on their distance from you.
It could also make Pain Elementals a bit more fun to fight.

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Blue Shadow said:

There isn't a super shotgun in Doom 1.

He might be referring to Doom 2...

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With Single Shotgun is 2, right? (don't remember now), but I find them less bulk and more challenging than Caco's and Demons.

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Kapanyo said:

Not really something that bothers me (except in Doom (1)), but I had an idea for Lost Souls' health. They should keep the 100% health, but take 2x damage when charging. This would mean you'd wait until they shoot towards you, then you blast 'em with the shotty and they die in one hit, which would be very satisfying - it would be kind of reaction-based, depending on their distance from you.
It could also make Pain Elementals a bit more fun to fight.

I like the idea. As a compensation for receiving more damage while charging, the Lost Souls would also become "unstoppable" while charging, I mean, they wouldn't stop in place when you shoot them mid-charging as they do now.

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American McGee only made 7(and a half) levels in doom 2. And Romero only made six levels, also that weren't as good as his levels is Doom 1.

Also the fact that zombie marines are in hell (episode 3) and the place is abundant with fucking guns, ammo, armor, and health packs. WTF!

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nxGangrel said:

Also the fact that zombie marines are in hell (episode 3) and the place is abundant with fucking guns, ammo, armor, and health packs. WTF!

That's why they're always looking for brains obviously.

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scifista42 said:

I like the idea. As a compensation for receiving more damage while charging, the Lost Souls would also become "unstoppable" while charging, I mean, they wouldn't stop in place when you shoot them mid-charging as they do now.

But then you couldn't play Lost Soul Snooker!



Position yourself so that the lost soul is between you and an enemy. Wait for the lost soul to start charging. Shoot the lost soul so that its charge is interrupted and it drifts backward. Make sure to lure the other enemy into staying in the backward path of the lost soul. When the lost soul hits, it deals charge damage to the enemy! Technically it's still in charge mode, so its contact deals damage. :p

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Pirx said:

Yeah if you have 80 hp left, the damn Rev ball will do 80 damage :p

RNG pisses me off worst with berserk though. You can kill a pinky in 1 punch, and then some Kung fu imp takes 4 and even scratches back.


Wolf3D does this with its bullet damage, you can go from 100 hit points to 20 sometimes if the RNG is not on your side. Which means you can potentially die in two shots at point-blank range. Mutants do a rapid two-shot pattern. It makes me mad just thinking about it.

As for the latter, YFW a super Imp shrugs off all seven pellets of a shotgun at point-blank. Just, why.

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Gez said:

Lost Soul Snooker

The way how you can change the stopped-mid-air Lost Soul's direction by punching it or shooting it with a pistol from any side has always reminded me of the sport "curling", as the lack of mid-air friction is similar to sliding on ice.

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scifista42 said:

The way how you can change the stopped-mid-air Lost Soul's direction by punching it or shooting it with a pistol from any side has always reminded me of the sport "curling", as the lack of mid-air friction is similar to sliding on ice.


Lol yes!

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Another thing I hate is the hell knight. Oh you went and recolored a baron and made it half as strong? How original. At least give it some other traits and a new fireball design! Jesus...

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Conversely, I hate barons for having so much damn health and being a basic projectile monster. A little distinction would have been nice! I like what Bloodstain did for the barons, for example. Simple change, not that much more challenging, but it does introduce a new aspect of gameplay unique to the monster even if it's just a second fireball.

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^I liked Brutal Doom's Barons. Alternate firing, three fireballs at once, charged shots...love it.

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Rayzik said:

Conversely, I hate barons for having so much damn health and being a basic projectile monster. A little distinction would have been nice! I like what Bloodstain did for the barons, for example. Simple change, not that much more challenging, but it does introduce a new aspect of gameplay unique to the monster even if it's just a second fireball.

Yeah but they're a legitimate mini boss. They aren't around every corner you go and they actually have meaning. The hell knight is legitimately a Sonic recolor FC in a nutshell.

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40oz said:

This community has a bit too many people who have the privilege of having a ton of free time and few of them are using it to master the art of making good doom levels.

As Fonze said, of the people who do make maps, a few too many of them work too independently, when they'd be better off pairing with someone who is better at a particular part of level design that they have a lot to learn from. Working with other people is one of the most powerful learning experiences in mapping I've ever had.

Doom itself has some pretty negligible minutiae of things I don't like that it seems hair splitting and annoying to go through the effort of posting it. Doom has a lot going for it that rarely bothers me outside of what map authors do in their maps.

I gotta say I agree. This thread bothers me. Doom was and is not supposed to be this hand-holding, homogenized walk thru Candy-Land. It's raw and brutal and unfair, and that's how it's supposed to be.

The pistol is awesome. Why? Because it makes the shotgun awesome. If you had started with the shotgun, it would suck. It's like saying a $10 bill sucks because it's not a $20 bill - it's ridiculous. Yes, the Lost Soul is a bit strong for its size and that it flies. But, remember that it was changed last minute, replacing the psychic attack of the beta Lost Soul. It's a bit unfair...too bad :)

Some people were bothered about Doom not providing enough modding capabilities out of the package - seriously?? First of all, Doom was basically the first game of it's size and complexity to (try to) provide mechanisms to swap out all of the original assets. No company dared do this. If things hadn't started out EXACTLY the way they did, would we keep coming back to Doom? I don't know.

The sad thing is that, most all of these complaints can be solved with a custom PWAD and/or a DeHackEd file. And for the remainder? They released the source code!

If you're still bothered, maybe getting worked up is your thing? :)

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Quake's shotgun doesn't suck, and you start with that. Doom 4's pistol is decent, and the shotgun is still good. It's not worth getting bothered by people's pet peeves. Some people don't like cats or unsweetened tea/coffee, I don't care.

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kb1 said:

stuff

I'm not entirely sure why you took it upon yourself to attempt to be the least pleasant person to be around ever.

Seriously, this isn't a high horse. This is a horse with million mile long legs. You might want to get off of it before you suffocate from being so far out of the atmosphere.

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Idk when there's 2 and a half pages of people bitching about the health of a lost soul or a starting weapon that is always quickly replaced, I tend to agree. Gamers wanted something different in the 90's and we are all looking at this from the perspective of the future; knowing what came next (Doom 2 + hundreds of pWads). We are the ADD generation and haven't the time or patience to consider regular shotgunning a baron to death fun. Hell, many people simply skip them even if they have an SSG; simply because of how little of a threat they are for how long they take to kill, being about as threatening as a literal can of worms (I'm fairly sure the metaphorical variety is still more of a threat). To say, "do it yourself" is a fair reaction to these comments given how easily accomplished it is, thanks to Id. Never mind that these things are as we know them to be; if they were changed who's to say that you would be satisfied with it 20 years later? As far as the LS's go, I remember being a kid, thinking that 1-shot kills on them with the shotgun was less random and more about timing/aiming the shot during their charge, heh, but I do remember fairly commonly getting 1-shot kills on them back then. I think we seem to forget the fact that if Id wanted LS's to always die in 1 shotgun blast, they would have simply lowered their health. As it is, the chances to kill them in 1 shot are fairly small, which was perfect for the iWads in the 90's culture. Also perfect for "clunky robot" players who take a while to make their way around the level and aim at monsters. Meaning more likely to wait to time that shot just right rather than attempting to uncoordinatedly run head-first into a gauntlet while firing on the run.

One reason I love lost soul's health: Enemies that take more than one regular shotgun blast, or especially when they can take 3, are perfect targets for rockets, which lost souls clearly are not. The paradox of this I find perfect and constantly inspires me to make setups involving rockets and lost souls; they were made for each other ^^

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If you're looking to evaluate the soul and attention span of the 2016-era Doomer, the pet peeve thread is probably not the place to do it.

kb1 said:

It's raw and brutal and unfair, and that's how it's supposed to be.


If Doom really was unfair, with no adverbs or clauses modifying that adjective, people would not be playing it 22+ years on. Doom is supposed to take place in a cruel landscape, but making a purely cruel game would be the fallacy of imitative form. Crazy slaughter stuff is possible solely because Doom is as regular and predictable as it is, and yet those pieces still fit together in surprising ways.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuOObGjCA7Q

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