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Doominator2

Duke Nukem Countdown?

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Cyanosis said:

This is twenty fucking dollars? For one new episode? Because there isn't countless episodes and other maps online for free that are probably better than this? I'm not seeing the value here honestly.

Also Polygon can't play anything to save their life.


Just curious, do you like Duke 3D? Have you played it? You haven't specified. If not, I recommend it. As for the points there, they also paid people to make a new renderer etc, but we've talked about the price a lot.

I love all the great user maps, just curious, have you played any? (Such as that one Groovy Street I posted earlier in the thread :D) [Or Shaky Grounds for a recent super impressive map]

Nothing against criticism, you just didn't answer that question earlier.


New episode looks great! I only watched about four minutes as to keep most of it a surprise. That's some good... coffee... as Duke says. :)

Here's a page talking about all the maps with some screens of each if you want more:

http://www.gearboxsoftware.com/2016/09/a-look-at-the-new-duke-nukem-maps-with-allen-h-blum-iii-and-richard-levelord-gray/

One very cool thing is how they talk about how the maps are much bigger, and it's fun for them to put way more in than the framerate could handle back in '96.

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Touchdown said:

What kind of a total failure you have to be to take 20 year old sounds and somehow make them WORSE? Seriously? In what kind of world are we living in that my copy of Duke3D under Dosbox sounds better than this 2016 re-release?

It's not hard to understand how it happens. When you upsample low-quality sound effects you *must* apply at least some low pass filtering (a 3-band EQ with the high pass set to a coefficient < 1.0 works wonders here) because the scaling introduces high-pitched noise that makes the audio raspy. What we have here though is what happens when you crank the low pass too high and wipe out too much of the spectrum - everything sounds muffled, and therefore of less quality.

What's dumb is this:

99% of the sounds in Duke 3D are stock sound effects. Fucking hell, half of them are also in Hexen for god's sake. What they SHOULD be doing is the simple chore of getting a bunch of those stock sound effect CDs and pulling off the pristine 44.1 kHz 16-bit versions of the sound effects.

But that would eat into Randy's guitar lessons fund.

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I do think the pistol in particular sounds very muffled, hopefully we'll be able to replace the sound files if we want, like in other versions of Duke 3D, assuming they don't fix it up. (TerminX mentioned that he mentioned the sound issue to his contacts at Gearbox at least, after it came up recently)

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PsychoGoatee said:

Just curious, do you like Duke 3D? Have you played it?

I love all the great user maps, just curious, have you played any?


I think it's a good game, not one of my all-time favorites but it's pretty solidly designed for the most part, more polish than the other BUILD engine titles, although I like Blood more. It was the first real game I did any kind of mapping or editing for 10 years ago in my private time.

I've played around less than a hundred regarding Duke maps/episodes, partial conversions and full-blown TCs back in the day (some major ones like Starship Troopers and Platoon which would later be NAM retail), nowhere near as much as Doom or Wolf3D but about as much as I've played for Quake 1, which is one of my favorites.

Duke3D never took off completely in the same way Wolf3D and Doom did for me but I'm sure there's even better stuff released in recent years that I'll eventually get around to checking out when I'm in the mood for it. And some classics worth revisiting if I can remember them all.

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Ah, right on. I had thought you hadn't since you mentioned you didn't have Megaton, when you said you'd play my map there if you could when I linked to the steam page a while back, then posted a DL link. This is a long sentence. :D

Definitely has a lot of great stuff to check out.

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PsychoGoatee said:

Ah, right on. I had thought you hadn't since you mentioned you didn't have Megaton


I wouldn't get up in arms over something if I didn't care about it.

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Swine & Roses said:

Any mention wether the new episode will work on other ports?


10$ says it uses a completely different file system.

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I can't remember where I read it but it was said to be using a different filetype not supported by any of the current source ports such as eDuke32.

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Heh, nice theme on that map. Why they felt the need to redo the duke speech to something not as good as the original, I don't know.

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Because that´s a selling point when they start to shout "DUKE VOICES OVER REDO!!!" then if it´s worst than the original it doesn´t matter.... Sincé they never said it was a better they just said it was a redo.

Funny thing is that zenimax gave us in secret a new Quake episode for free with more levels than the new DUKE WORLD TOUR!!

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Wild Dog said:

Funny thing is that zenimax gave us in secret a new Quake episode for free with more levels than the new DUKE WORLD TOUR!!

Careful now; no they didn't. The Machine Games mapping team made a Quake episode strictly on their own free time. They weren't paid to do it, nor did Zenimax endorse it commercially.

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Edward850 said:

Careful now; no they didn't. The Machine Games mapping team made a Quake episode strictly on their own free time. They weren't paid to do it, nor did Zenimax endorse it commercially.

Sorry i don´t belive they work for free. They made it with a lot care, for a simple and casual mod.
Also it took them time and time is money. So i do belive they were asked to made it, to boost Quake Brand name just a tiny bit. Don´t forget that a few months ago some e-magazine were talking about it.
Zenimax won´t endorse it so they don´t have to give any kind of support to it.

Of course all of this is pure conjecture.

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Wild Dog said:

Sorry i don´t belive they work for free. They made it with a lot care, for a simple and casual mod.

But isn't that exactly what we do here? By your logic, the BTSX team are paid to make BTSX, but they certainly weren't either.

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There's also the fact that Wolf:TNO's project lead, Jerk Gustaffson, used to make Quake maps in the 90s and early 2000s.

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Wild Dog said:

Because that´s a selling point when they start to shout "DUKE VOICES OVER REDO!!!" then if it´s worst than the original it doesn´t matter.... Sincé they never said it was a better they just said it was a redo.


I'm not sure what's worse at this point, 'remastered' graphics somehow looking worse than the original visuals or 'remastered' audio being more soulless than the original recordings. Either way I can chalk it up to 'we don't know what the fuck we're doing'.

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At least you have the option of playing the game with the original graphics.

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DN3D 20th Anniversary is going to feature a new episode.....without the 3 expansions Megaton edition had.

And Gearbox is charging 20 dollars for it. This sounds like a scam to me.

From what I've seen, it has some lightning improvements & that's pretty much it.

Unless you never owned or played the game, this is not worth 20 dollars.

I'd say, get it when its price drops to at least 5 dollars for the fifth episode.

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I bought one for myself, my brother, and I may buy somebody a third copy. Your points are all pretty subjective, and it's personal taste anyway, but why are 8 maps by Levelord and Allen Blum etc only worth 5 dollars? I don't really see why. I guess being made for an old game makes people not interested in new content, new levels, new voice lines, new music (by Lee Jackson), new renderer, it has multiplayer (possibly could be better done than Megaton there will wait n see), it has more than 5 dollars of work put into it in my opinion.

Other people are looking forward to paying more for games that to me look much less good, with levels that may be subjectively worse or even procedurally generated. Everybody's into different stuff.

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PsychoGoatee said:

but why are 8 maps by Levelord and Allen Blum etc only worth 5 dollars? I don't really see why...


Because the value of something is also subjective.

They have their ideals. You have yours. Agree to disagree.

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Six said:

Because the value of something is also subjective.

They have their ideals. You have yours. Agree to disagree.


For sure, I said something similar too. But we still might as well discuss logic and what we consider to make sense, comparing our view points, since it's a discussion forum. To me, even though we're all interested in different stuff, saying

"Unless you never owned or played the game, this is not worth 20 dollars."

is just not accurate. And was just curious what the logic is of considering something like that only worth 5 dollars, when I'm sure most have paid plenty more than that on a game they ended up not liking. At least here, if you like Duke 3D (and these mappers), it's very likely you'll enjoy this.

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PsychoGoatee said:

"Unless you never owned or played the game, this is not worth 20 dollars."

is just not accurate.

It's not inaccurate either, because it's an opinion.

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Edward850 said:

It's not inaccurate either, because it's an opinion.


It is inaccurate, because their statement didn't just include themself, they made a statement including everybody. Which is naturally not accurate, since there are people who have bought Duke 3D several times who do consider this worth it. I understand of course not everybody is interested in this release, or paying 20 for it.

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PsychoGoatee said:

For sure, I said something similar too. But we still might as well discuss logic and what we consider to make sense, comparing our view points, since it's a discussion forum.


Until someone becomes a broken record. Then the discussion is more-or-less nullified.

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8 maps for 20 bucks is a rip in my opinion too, for what it's worth. Community content renders this mapset almost entirely unnecessary as stuff of equal or higher quality has been released for free for many years. I'm not saying that means this should be free, but the cash to content ratio is frankly laughable when you consider that this is a little map pack for a 20+ year old game. It looks decently fun but completely unremarkable, honestly. Just my 2c.

DN's post on page 8 pretty much sums it up.

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PsychoGoatee said:

For sure, I said something similar too. But we still might as well discuss logic and what we consider to make sense, comparing our view points, since it's a discussion forum. To me, even though we're all interested in different stuff, saying

"Unless you never owned or played the game, this is not worth 20 dollars."

is just not accurate. And was just curious what the logic is of considering something like that only worth 5 dollars, when I'm sure most have paid plenty more than that on a game they ended up not liking. At least here, if you like Duke 3D (and these mappers), it's very likely you'll enjoy this.


Any publicity for Duke is good publicity, especially in the age of Snowflakes.

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