Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Voros

Freedoom need better maps

Recommended Posts

Before you leaveI would like to say something.

There are some maps in Freedoom that are just not that fun. Mostly because it just drags on and on.

The best example being MAP 13: Return to Earth. I felt like killing myself because of these maps. Maps that contain so much detail, that the gameplay, that feeling of happyness, is gone.

So I've come here ask if any of you mappers here are willing to make fresh maps for the slots containing such... big maps. Of course you can donate maps you made in the past.

Here are some of the ones I found in Phase 2:
-map 12
-map13
-map 15
-map 19

Here's a brief story on my recent map 15 playthrough:

Spoiler

I started out and pressed whatever switch I found. Now after two minutes of wandering around, I realized that maybe that door I saw earlier might have opened. What do you know, it has.

So I go in through door, and there are more doors everywhere. Entering through one that's open, I see a red door labelled "Exit" and a room with a switch that can only be activated with a yellow key (this room is locked).

OK, so I know there is a red key and yellow key involved.

Now I keep advancing through whatever doors I find and whatever switches I find also. I keep wandering around the map for 3 minutes at least, until I find the blue key.

Great, so there's a blue door now?

So I keep on going through map like a mad man, flicking switches and opening doors, searching for the blue door. And more wandering around, I see that I somehow had opened the room with the yellow key switch.

But I don't have a yellow key!

So I keep moving around the map, this time looking for the yellow key. And what happens? I find the blue door.

So I go through it and the rooms inside and find a switch. I flick it. OK, now what did that do?

And AGAIN I'm aimlessly wandering around the map until I'm back in the room with many doors. One of the doors has mysteriously opened.

At least give a fucking clue on what that switch did. Like a label or something.

And what lies in it? The yellow key. So I grab it and then realized something: I forgot where the room with the yellow key switch is. I literally forgot.

And AGAIN I'm wandering again, until I'M found it. I pressed the switch and went in the door that opened. Followed my instincts and went through the rooms there and the red key appears.

Yay.

So I grab it and run back out and head back to the door with the exit. And finished.

Did I enjoy it? NO. dragging on and on with switches and switches.

Were the puzzles satisfying? Fuck no.

Was it all worth it? It took me a fucking 20 minutes to finish it. And half of that was aimless wandering.

I'd also like to say that I have never figured out how toto finish map 13.
These kind of maps just takes out fun in Freedoom. How will newbies beat this?

If you guys have cool maps to contribute, be sure to show it!

Share this post


Link to post

I don't know if I extended the offer already but both Sinister Intention (limit-removing, no Boom specials) and Nex Credo (vanilla compatible) of mine have very open copyright/permissions -- if any fit the purpose feel free to use 'em, modify 'em, hack 'em together, whatever.

Mileage may vary since my approach to mapping is, let's say, occasionally interesting but the offer's there.

Also, who's leaving?

Share this post


Link to post
Jayextee said:

Also, who's leaving?

In case the reader wasn't interested in this thread.

Your Nex Credo one sounds interesting, especially since you say its vanilla compatible.
But does it have 4 player coop starts and proper deathmatch starts?
Do you believe it offers enough of a challenge for map slots like 13, 15, 19, etc, while staying progressive with the whole IWAD?
HOMs and misallignments?

Share this post


Link to post
Voros said:

But does it have 4 player coop starts and proper deathmatch starts?


I remember putting some in (and extra weapons for DM) and testing w/ bots and choco's single-player netgame function briefly but I can't say OTOH whether I did this for every level.

Voros said:

Do you believe it offers enough of a challenge for map slots like 13, 15, 19, etc, while staying progressive with the whole IWAD?


Couldn't say. They may be a bit small and light for anything past 13, but then again the permissions are open to modifications...

Voros said:

HOMs and misallignments?


Hopefully neither although I can't be 100%. Nobody has yet complained, let's put it that way.

Share this post


Link to post

OK then. I'll to playtest them using bots, in software and OpenGL mode and hope it has a nice challenge for those map slots.

Frankly, I wish for Freedoom to have its own set of new maps, to give it its own identity, you know?

Have you even tried map 13 of Freedoom? Its a fucking headache.

OK, so you want to donate any/all level(s) in Nex Credo, correct?

Share this post


Link to post

Unfortunately I may have used all of my spare maps in Strange Aeons. I'll check and see if I have something laying around though.

Share this post


Link to post

is this the map15 you played?: http://imgur.com/a/ljOL0

im asuming no because you may be playing the new version and as well i dont remember that my map15 were so cryptic (in fact one thing that bothered me with my map15 for freedoom was the linearity so i have to change it a bit like you can explore most of the base zones but you need keys for the important zones)

i donated a lot of maps made only for freedoom (e1m5-e2m5, Map12, map15, map28) and all of them were removed because "vanilla aim", limit removing could have been a good option but probably they wanted to aim the project for more mobiles devices (since is the main thing now) so pretty much anything that dont fit the limit of vanilla should be removed and reworked.

i would like to make maps again for freedoom, but vanilla limits (i mean certain amount of sector lines vertex things, not vanilla format) its something i cant do, i dont like to make rooms to be a bit empty and even if i try i would end detailing them (because honestly freedoom texture are just too sweet to work with).

also i wouldnt like to make again maps that took me months only to be removed again because now the project have another aim, freedoom need to know what they want instead "no we want this" "now we dont need this we should go this instead". because thats what stop project progress.

maybe they can get some of the 1 hour speed map sessions donated to the project as im assuming those 1 hour speed map should be on the same standard for a pure vanilla limit map and since most of the good mappers works on these kind of projects, those maps should have good quality and gameplay

Share this post


Link to post

Yes that's the map15 i played.

And yes, it is that cryptic.

I'm not saying it's bad, just not appropriate. I love the detail, but the layout is really frustrating. Imagine what a new player will feel like if all he ever does is roam around hopelessly and flicking switches everywhere.

Share this post


Link to post

then i should have kept the linearity instead making it less linear with most of the area open. but most of the map it just pretty much a corridor connected to doors. so most of the description of your gameplay make me wonder why is like that as "i dont remember add a lot of doors".

map12 shouldnt be a problem too since its a pretty big open map where you can go anywhere even without keys (if you find the secrets) but even if you dont find it. pretty much the keys path are set to go there and there, just with some extra door to enter on such area if you dont want to go to through the main area.

but anyway this shouldnt be a trouble since those maps going to be removed once the vanilla only limit its set

Share this post


Link to post

Did you make make map 13? I feel like you did, since it seems to resemble your style in some parts.

Share this post


Link to post

No i only donated the maps i listed. because freedoom in that moment didnt have more slots with tech bases (my favorite kind of map) so thats why after map28 made e1m5 and e2m5 since those slots were available

EDIT: i maaay be wrong with the author, but if map13 its what looks like you start in some sort of alley near of a burning barrel and ruined wall with a fence, i think that map was made by WesleyJohnshon. again i could be wrong with the author.

Share this post


Link to post

Is there a texture pack for this, Voros? What other specs does the mapper have to follow? Vanilla, or limit removed? Though I've heard of it and read the odd thread on it, I'm not well versed in the world of Freedoom...

Share this post


Link to post

My experience playing halfway through Freedom 1 (using the current version) was that the levels do a lot of things well -- distinctive use of limited geometry, lots of fun tactical challenges with low-tier enemies, good difficulty curve -- but the switch hunting (like Eternal Doom?) sometimes feels dated. Although it did better my automap-reading skills.

Share this post


Link to post
Soundblock said:

Is there a texture pack for this, Voros? What other specs does the mapper have to follow? Vanilla, or limit removed? Though I've heard of it and read the odd thread on it, I'm not well versed in the world of Freedoom...

Stock textures found in Doom. Freedoom maps are basically Doom maps.

Map should at least be in Boom format. But if you do it vanilla, then it's even better.

Share this post


Link to post

Is the aim for Vanilla-compatibility still up?
I've been trying to get good at mapping, though i don't know if i'll be able to cope with those constraints.

Share this post


Link to post

Yes it is. But Boom maps are still acceptable. Just don't go overboard with Boom features and details, and it will be easier to convert into vanilla.

Share this post


Link to post

I'd say take the conversion process out and just go full vanilla with it at that point. If you're still in need of decent vanilla maps a few months down the road I'll be happy to contribute some, I just have little time + a handful of projects already going. I'd love to contribute to freedoom in some way, though.

Share this post


Link to post

Just thought i'd say this, but C3M5 is an empty slot. If anyonw would like to make a map for that slot, be my guest.

And thanks JXT for Nex Credo!

@doomkid, if Freedoom becomes a "submit vanilla maps only" it'll barely get any submissions because of the restrictions of vanilla mapping, and seeing how so many mappers make Boom maps, I doubt they'll bother with vanilla.

Share this post


Link to post

But the is probably turning them away too because they know their maps will be toned down and stripped of things to fit in vanilla...

Share this post


Link to post
Voros said:

Your Nex Credo one sounds interesting, especially since you say its vanilla compatible.
But does it have 4 player coop starts and proper deathmatch starts?
Do you believe it offers enough of a challenge for map slots like 13, 15, 19, etc, while staying progressive with the whole IWAD?
HOMs and misallignments?


Freedoom is an open source project. A map submission does not have to be immediately perfect. It can be fixed either by the original author or any other contributor at any time.

Share this post


Link to post
Z0k said:

i would like to make maps again for freedoom, but vanilla limits (i mean certain amount of sector lines vertex things, not vanilla format) its something i cant do, i dont like to make rooms to be a bit empty and even if i try i would end detailing them (because honestly freedoom texture are just too sweet to work with).

also i wouldnt like to make again maps that took me months only to be removed again because now the project have another aim, freedoom need to know what they want instead "no we want this" "now we dont need this we should go this instead". because thats what stop project progress.


It's frustrating that your maps were removed for the quixotic pursuit of vanilla compatibility. I think we have now abandoned that distraction.

Share this post


Link to post

But doesn't Freedoom have new monsters and weapons? Do you just make a map with the existing cast and then they're later converted to the new cast? Or is there a resource file that mappers should have?

Share this post


Link to post
Soundblock said:

But doesn't Freedoom have new monsters and weapons? Do you just make a map with the existing cast and then they're later converted to the new cast? Or is there a resource file that mappers should have?

Nope.
Nope if you mean Doom stuff.
And nope.

Share this post


Link to post
Soundblock said:

But doesn't Freedoom have new monsters and weapons? Do you just make a map with the existing cast and then they're later converted to the new cast? Or is there a resource file that mappers should have?

1. No. Freedoom basically replaces all the assets in Doom with free content. No extra stuff (well other than a DeHacked lump). No extra sprites, no new weapons, no new monsters.

2. What? There isn't any new stuff, that it requires converting.

3. Yes. Freedoom. But in all seriousness, a Doom map is essentially a Freedoom map.

Just download it and use the IWAD as your base for your editor.

Freedoom also comes with TNT and Plutonia assets/placeholders(sadly). You can use those two together in one map eg Plutonia's ugly textures :P with TNT's Egyptian textures.

Share this post


Link to post

If you consider it good enough and there's any empty slots in Phase 1's Episode 1 or first half of Episode 2, then you can use this, obviously i will adapt it to fit the slot it would go in and fix any issues.

Share this post


Link to post

^hmm...

Would fit C1M2 nicely (seriously, the current C1M2 has more than 80 monsters!)

Yeah. I'll move the current C1M2 to... C1M5 and put this map in C1M2.

But I still haven't decided yet.

Edit: it seems you didn't take the lower difficulty levels into account. Why don't you fix that?

Share this post


Link to post

I just now realised people are putting forth other sets that can be used as a base - feel free to do anything with tdevil2.wad, sinseven.wad and literally anything else in the archive by me. I'll put those two forward as they're both vanilla.

Share this post


Link to post

Doesn't anyone want to have a go in making a map for C3M5? Its the only slot left in Freedoom Phase 1.

Share this post


Link to post
Voros said:

Doesn't anyone want to have a go in making a map for C3M5? Its the only slot left in Freedoom Phase 1.


I'll give it a shot.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×