The DWmegawad Club plays: Alien Vendetta

[T-Rex]

Hey guys, I'm back again, and I'll be tackling the secret levels.

Map31: Killer Colours (Yashar Garibzadeh/Kristian Kall)
102% kills, 100% items, 100% secrets
Time: 09:44

The collaboration of Gemini and Kristus gives us a rather unusual gimmick level, which consists of three coloured zones, hence the title. Each zone is tougher than the last. The first one (blue) has you battling spectres and cacodemons, the second (green) replaces the latter with hell knights and arachnotrons, and the last one (red) has barons, revenants, arch-viles, and cyberdemons, including regular demons. The last zone in particular has a couple of slaughter moments, one where you need to step on the platform you lowered and swarms of revenants emerge which you can get them to infight with the cyberdemon. Then the final fight where after you hit the switch which lowers the box, the walls holding masses of the nastiest monsters, including three cyberdemons, lower. Fortunately, you have an invulnerability handy, and you can BFG as much of the mob before it wears off, coupled with four megaspheres. Secret exit was pretty easy to find. Design wise, there's really not much that stands out, though the concept with the colours is quite interesting and the attention to lighting was decent. From what I gather from the text file, Gemini did the blue and red zones while Kristus did the green. Really cool that they picked the Duke Nukem 3D music track "Future Military Conquests" for this map.

Map32: No Guts No Glory (Anders Johnsen)
100% kills, 100% items, 100% secrets
Time: 08:16

So here we are, the quintessential slaughtermap in the tradition of Plutonia Map32: Go 2 It and Hell Revealed Map22: Resistance is Futile. Just get your BFG and rocket launcher ready and start firing away at all the hordes as you collect the keys. Walls open up revealing more nasties as you grab the keys, and of course, the cyberdemons are the ones that will be the most challenging to take down. Thankfully, there's plenty of megaspheres, cell and rocket ammo to spare. Short map, but difficult from start to finish, with all the idioms you see from the likes of the Casali Bros. and Yonatan Donner. The upbeat Heretic music track, which you hear in the intermission screen in this megawad, goes quite well with the intense. In my opinion, it could have easily been a custom track for Plutonia, because it sounds like jungle music to me.

I'll take a break now, and continue on with the next maps for another day. See you all again.

[rehelekretep]

map17 is interesting as it would seem a complete cakewalk on continuous but is a real bitch when pistol-starting.

[Pirx]

MAP18 - “Lake Poison” by Anders Johnsen

a map combining several elements from plutonia maps: island, castle, sewers, path through slime, big slaughter room. starts with a lake of green crap where camping the imp corner and shooting everything from there was the easiest way. then it continues with the castle walls inspired by plutonia m23, a U-shaped corridor, some flat sewers at right angles where hundreds of imps appear and are massacred, that section is generally easy to cheese. ends with a slaughter hall that has more bark than bite, shove the bfg into a dozen masterminds and blow them away, ammo and powerups are provided by the truckload. everything in plutonia's dark brick and clay wall style. entertaining.



MAP19 - “Alien Resurrection” by Madani el Hariri

another plutonic map with some wooden wall & furniture for good measure, use of archviles to back up revenant & knight groups. this occurs in several setpiece battles, which are generally quickly over once you get the bfg. the one at the yellow door was amusing though, because it actually opens in your back, where you're surrounded by shotgunners and a vile, with those thin bars for cover. same for the vile that appears in the blood pool when you think you can quickly 2-shot the cyber. yah, it's a bit of click and see what happens. stuffing 2 cacos into the exit corridor was pointless though.

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP19 Alien Resurrection

Another straightforward level that is actually quite fun to speedrun as well. The gated beginning segments don't really seem like much, but by the time we reach the red key chamber it can be quite fun. That is, if you're like me and just run to the side paths first instead of clearing the center, since they can infight around each other there. The north path done first, with a berserk opportunity, then the invisible arachnotron pens in the south. An arch-vile however, might just undo all those guys in the central red key section.

Going to backtrack managed to be exciting for a bit with some stragglers released, and then there's a stuck mancubus and a cacodemon behind an invisible wall. The map's shining point happens here if you want to make it one, and I did. Because I knew exactly where everything was (hey I was one to do the remaining walkthroughs on the wiki a while back), I decided to have a lot of fun leaving enemies for later. I hilariously bumrushed the yellow key library section too, where the yellow key is a fake-out trap but it just moves behind the wall. There's another fake-out moment at a yellow door which opens a wall behind the player, and the overall result gives us a cyberdemon and several other enemies in the center of the U. I then mopped up here rather nicely. This level is one I often forget, but when I play it, I generally enjoy it every time.

[Deadwing]

19: I was expecting a smaller level with this monster count, but
actually this one was a quite well paced one. Also, most encounters
were trap based that wasn't unfair so actually it was quite fun
killing these guys and there was some good amount of tension.

Visuals were quite good too, some simple detailing but it looked
charming. For the negatives, the level itself felt too disjointed,
with each room isolated from another. As a consequence, this became a
very linear level, but on other hand, I liked that there was some true
sense of progression and some sort of climax in the end, so the
linearity was actually a good thing. 8.5/10

[BlondieMcFilthy]

rehelekretep said:

map17 is interesting as it would seem a complete cakewalk on continuous but is a real bitch when pistol-starting.

Basically it depends entirely on whether you can wrangle the BFG out from under the Cyber before he has a chance to blow you away. If you can get it, the map is a cinch; sometimes the RNG is less than kind to you when trying this, however...

[antares031]

MAP20 - Misri Halek
ZDoom, UV - Pistol Start, KIS(%): 100/100/100

Since the MAP31 of TNT:Evilution presented the egyptian architectural level design theme, Kim André Malde's Misri Halek is one of the best levels with a great adventure inside of the giant pyramid, in my honest opinion. The architectural design and lighting detail are just exquisite and beautiful for vanilla doom standard. Each sector is designed with unique layout and decoration, so you won't get bored throughout the gameplay (except some moments I'm going to talk later). This level also changes its theme to add more varieties of the environment. After some mazes and corridors of egyptian pyramid, you'll visit the hellish underground cavern with lava, another cave with ASHWALL4 textures, and even a giant, spiral canyon outside of the pyramid. While the overall progression is pretty much linear, this is another example that I talked about from MAP10; a well-designed architectural detail is one of the best compensators for a linear level progression.

Then again, however, it shares the same problem with MAP10. The majority of combats take place in the small, narrow rooms and corridors, which means there's not much varieties of the size of the sectors. It is good to see the changes of architectural design sector by sector. But it could be better if this level had some more large halls between these narrow passages, adding more varieties of gameplay experience. That being said, I liked the large stairs with two unexpected Cyberdemons to break the monotone, although I understand that some players may dislike these boss monster placements. Speaking of which, the overall monster placements are not bad, but I think the grey canyon part is a little bit boring, since it's nothing but a long passage with repetitive Run & Spam tactics. Also, I didn't like the absence of escape teleporters of lava pit in front of giant canyon. For your information, one of my pet peeves of level design elements is inescapable pit, telling players "**** you and just die, moron." I miss the "stairs" of damaging pit from some levels, like the very beginning of MAP09.

The next problem I want to talk is path-finding. I didn't have much trouble with it, except two moments. After I passed through the yellow skull door and a crypt, this level doesn't give any clues about the next progression. So you need to wander around the whole pyramid until you meet three revenants somewhere. I always jump into that hellish cave whenever I reach the end of that corridor. A similar thing happens later, where you need to find a demon switch to open the last corridor to the exit.

Still, despite of some problems I had, I want to say that this level is one of the best levels for vanilla doom I've ever played. Kim André Malde did a really good job to create this beautiful masterpiece with countless well-designed rooms, exquisite lighting details, and a memorable journey inside of that giant pyramid. It's really unfortunate that we won't see more levels by the author. But to me, this level will be remembered as one of the best classic levels ever designed. Rest in Peace, Kim.

[Paul977]

Map 19 Alien Resurrection:

Same author of map 15 turn out with a new map and this time a good one. Tematically is almost full brick with some "toxic touches" areas like the good one surrounding the red key door or the one inside the final bulding.
Other well designed parts include the "library zone" which lead to the yellow key and the final open door area with the pool of blood.
Generally is not a particularly difficult level even though has been a bit more harder then the precedent for me. There is some good usage of the arch-viles especially in the red key zone and when you open the fake yellow door, near the end of the map.
Good job from the author in this level.

[Capellan]

Map20
I believe this map is quite popular (kmx certainly liked it), and it looks nice enough, but IMO the gameplay is DREADFUL. Supremely, astonishingly bad. Endless backtracking. Endless, endless corridors. Endless, endless, endless meat. Stultifying, tedious, redundant meat. Oh, and inconsistently damaging lava, because this shit sundae needed a turdtacular cherry on top.

#1 with a bullet on my “worst maps in AV” list (so far). I’m glad I’ve played ahead because it killed any desire to play Doom for at least a few days.

[mouldy]

MAP19 - “Alien Resurrection” by Madani el Hariri

I got a weird feeling with this map that it went on longer than I remembered. I think its because it is divided into a number of chunks that all have their own character and don't really talk to each other, so its like it became 3 different maps in my head. Anyway, its alright. I used to have real ammo problems with it, but these days I have learned to make more use of berzerk and infighting. I still had some enemies left at the end which I didnt have the ammo to kill, I think they were all brought back by an archvile. Has a moody plutonia vibe going on, but its not too difficult if you take things carefully.

[gaspe]

Map20: One of the more (if not the most) memorable maps of this wad. The opening scene with the sphinx and the pyramids, the music... The atmosphere is top notch here, though if it really deosn't resonate with you I don't think you will enjoy this level so much, the gameplay doesn't have enough traction and I feel that this map is "experienced" better if you play it more slowly and while you take your time. The inner ares of the pyramid are even more beautiful of how I remembered them. The lightning is superb and the architecture has different bits here and there while only few textures are used. The various hellish caves were interesting enough to me but the weakest part is the climbing of the canyon to go to the yellow key: too much repetitive and the locations lack the charm of the halls of the pyramid. Overall is a fantastic map that provides a great journey, but I guess that Egyptian Slaughter isn't everyone's cup of tea.

[baja blast rd.]

map20

After about 10 minutes I decided I had no interest in playing the rest of this. The gameplay is a mix of slog and irritating map geometry, and the visuals don't make up for that.

[rehelekretep]

map19 - fda here

this map feels like a slog - despite only having 200 or so monsters.

i liked the opening sections in the water/cage areas, and the egyptian/crypt bits. the arachnotron area is pretty cool although the floors coming down to release them look a bit odd in GL - i havent checked how they appear in software.

once you enter the RK/YK area the map goes downhill - slightly odd geometry, decorations blocking me (especially egregious in the library section) and odd blocking lines that others have mentioned. also, im not sure why, but the elevator/cyberdemon bit gave me ghost-revenants twice

this map also killed me multiple times. if you do watch the FDA, id advise watching the first 1 or 2 deaths from part1 and then skip straight to the exit in part2. or dont watch it all as its quite long! :p

[rehelekretep]

map20 - fda here the FDA is 2 parts again, and very long - i would advise, again, watching only the exit, if at all!

holy shit - this map :x

this is the big one, the most famous map in AV. id watched this before (SAV88 has a superb UV-Max on DSDA i would suggest watching) but nothing prepared me for this. its an absolute monster-slog of a map - and i have very mixed feelings.

first, the good: the lighting, texture choice, architecture, and sense of place and atmosphere is fantastic. the lighting is just superb. i dont often just stop in doom (especially old doom wads) and just admire the lighting design!

the midi is beautiful and helps, never growing old (and i gave it plently of time to do that!)

but now, the bad: the map throws too much meat at you, in narrow corridors. in addition, there's no enough armour in the first section, forcing you to play 'safe' so you cant just blitz through it.

this would be OK - if the map didnt then spring 1, then 2 cyberdemons on you in very confined spaces, often with annoying geometry to get stuck on. many of my runs made it about 10 minutes in, methodically wading through easy encounters (once you know where the monsters are), only to get blasted by the first or second pair of cybers :x

the only tactic that worked eventually was just to spam the cybers to pain-stun them so they couldnt fire as many rockets. in a good sense i guess AV20 taught me a new tactic for cybers :p

the canyon/mountain pass bit is great from a storytelling perspective (journeying out of the evil pyramid to reach the top and take the YK) but its quite dull gameplay wise, and having a inescapable pit to the right the whole time is inexcusable (i died after trying to get cute with a revenant :( )

after you get the YK the map dies a bit of a death; none of the encounters have any teeth, and the final adversary is an ineffectual spiderdemon who i shotgunned to death to save cells; and then promptly exited - unknowingly - through the portal. oh - didnt need those cells anyway! its a shame as the tension created by the fact that i was almost 40 minutes into a run by this point was never relieved or heightened to a release

mixed feelings indeed!

[Pirx]

MAP20 - “Misri Halek” by Kim André Malde

@ Capellan & rdwpa:

glad you're here with me. misri halek's fame is based on it visuals, which are quite strong. the beautiful music complements them well. so, if you like an egyptian tomb with sheer endless hallways and tunnels to crawl through, then it's a convincing map. if not, tough luck. i used lots of saves here, simply because i had trouble finding my way, and little interest in repeating the slog.

[Deadwing]

20: 500 monsters, so this is going to be one of these slaughter
levels, right? Not really, this actually feels quite well faced,
except... not. It took me 50 minutes to finish it, but honestly, I've
only enjoyed the first 10 minutes, because really, it's the same thing
over and over again: You walk in corridors and all the enemies are harmless, standing in your way and you in a safe position. At the end, each time I've found a Hell Knight or
Baron of Hell, I wanted to hit my head on a wall. That mountain
walking was unfortunaly the worst moment of this wad. Then you
have these obtuse switches, c'mon, really? This felt like a grower but
it didn't lead to anywhere, it was the same thing over and over again.

Visuals were quite good, especially lighting, and the music was
atmospheric, though. Still, I nearly gave up like four or five times
(had to use idclip sometimes) 2.5/10.

[ella guro]

imho Misri Halek is pretty overrated. some good moments there, but like you guys said it's way too much of a slog. i feel like this map helped start the PWAD trope of ambitious/flashy concepts with way too bloated gameplay. it is a more focused experienced than most of its imitators, to its credit. even at its size, it does still feel like being in a pyramid. (EDIT: also the attention to detail in the lighting is really good in the map, something lots of people often forget). but i think Malde was just trying to do too much at once within vanilla Doom. i guess it worked to get people's attention though.

i wish i would've seen this thread at the beginning of the month, since AV is the first megawad i ever played back in 2002/2003 and it would be cool to replay it - but it's nice to read everyone's impressions. on a replay 3 or 4 years back i was a bit surprised that i liked some maps i totally had forgot about before. it also solidified that i'm the biggest fan of the first episode - Map 11 used to be my favorite, but i think Beast Island (Map 08) might be my favorite now. but it falls apart for me a bit after that point. i'm just not a slaughter map person. i think maps 15 & 19 are underrated though.

[BlondieMcFilthy]

Map 19 - Alien Resurrection

I think what helps separate this map in my head, from the others in AV (and particularly in the second episode) is that its atmosphere feels like it's about to build up and break out into a fevered pitch at some point. Terrific use of the Heretic E1M1 midi, really fits this map like a glove.

As for how it plays, this one is decidedly more of a linear adventure map than the monster swarm heavy last two. The texture work & lighting here once again reminds me of Plutonia, though not as overwhelmingly so as Lake Poison - still, the mix of predominant brown bricks & metal over green slime, at least for the inital part of the map reminds me of a later Plutonia map I can't quite put my finger on. This one isn't as swarm heavy and instead relies a lot more on traps, a fair few of them telegraphed - such as the Arachnotron cell block - and a few very sudden ones, like the Yellow Key one. One of the things I like the most about the combat in this map is the use of Arch Viles, or rather how they're used in a fairly wide open space toward the ending part of the map, which presents the problem of them naturally resurrecting dead monsters, and that you don't get an easy space to immediately duck 'n cover from an attack of theirs if you're unlucky. I really appreciate that they're used to both passively and actively pressure the player on this map. It's not a terribly difficult map, but I appreciate the nastiness of some of the encounters - not to mention, the huge final room and its build up into the ending portal is genuinely really ominous for a Doom WAD, especially paired with that midi. (though I agree the Caco placement is totally useless, at that point they really pose no threat to you)

Map 20 Misri Halek

First thing's first: I swear the first part of that midi track always reminds me of Candlemass's "Black Candles". They're different melodies from each other, but they have kind of a similar tone with each other.

Anyway, this is the adventure map of Alien Vendetta. The idea of a map based on a pyramid wasn't entirely new for a Doom WAD (Evilution's notorious Map 31 might stake a claim to it?), but here, Malde fully realizes it by having you descend into the depths of this Pyramid, the pocket of hell lurking below it and travel ling to a shrine locked into the side of an adjacent mountain to acquire the yellow key. It's almost akin to Tomb Raider meeting Doom - it feels like a place that hadn't been disturbed for millennia before all these hellspawns and, naturally, yourself show up. In other words, this map is AV's biggest triumph in crafting a vibe for the player to absorb and savour, via exceptional work via lighting & texture choices, as well as music. It almost doesn't even matter than the map is actually pretty linear and easy to play in its construction because it does such an exceptional job at crafting something utterly immense to dive into.

Gameplay wise.. it is true that it does rely on middle-tier monsters a touch much, particularly given how narrow most of the hallways in here are. I don't have the issue with it a lot of other folks here seem to, because Malde's use of them frequently puts instant pressure on the player and forces you to take action quickly - good example being the swarm of Hell Knights that you encounter fairly early on in the map. Besides, it isn't just a meat chopping exercise, as there is a strong mixture of monsters here that run the gamut across the whole bestiary. I liked the use of the Cybers in this map as essentially big turrets you have to find a way to deal with; the way two of them are deployed before the mountain can give you some pretty nasty crossfire. (I remember dying in that part a TON the first few times I dove into this map) I don't have an issue with the trip up to the mountain shrine here, as it's an excellent bit of visual storytelling and, for the most part, the monster choice here is reasonable - Revenants and Hell Knights with the odd Manc and Arch Vile sprung on you as a trap.

There are a couple issues I do have with the map, the first being the biggest one. I do think the switch sequence that opens up the final part of the map isn't handled the best; it's easy to get tripped up trying to work out what you're supposedly to be hitting in part because of the lighting, and the somewhat obscured nature of how they work. It's something that might come natural to you if you're a fan of stuff like Eternal Doom, but for people less inclined toward that stuff, it's easy to get stuck at that point. The second one is that the Baron useage here isn't real good; pretty much all of them could've been replaced with more HKs or Revs and the map probably would've been a little punchier for it.

In short, this map rules and now I need a cigarette!

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP20 Misri Halek

10,310 characters I added to that wiki page when I did that walkthrough, holy shit. Not even sure if it really was worth doing all that, but oh well, filling in whatever gaps seemed fun at the time. Anyways, here's Kim's most memorable map ever, a large Egyptian pyramid complete with lava, tombs, and even a large mountain. It's one heck of a journey. He manages to make a full-on linear map, so it turns out players won't actually get lost at all if they follow the path properly.

My least favorite section of this is the hellish lava place, for much of the same reasons I hated the caverns in MAP11, the overall tightness means Doomguy bumps into walls a lot. But we reach the Egyptian halls again shortly after. There's a lava river to cross, and it also has its bumps and snags (plus damage inconsistencies), plus the red key is necessary there and it's not as obvious as it seems. Another thing, I can't really pinpoint one single combat moment that really sticks out. They're just all there in their own merits, and depending on the placement of everything, it may not be enjoyable. Barons and hell knights in general tend to really bring it down, particularly in the mountain climbing section where they're just roadblocks entirely.

Oh let's talk about that one area. It's a circular climb where any monster could just be in the way, and the nobles guard the switches in the mini-Egypt at the top, which is a minor switchhunt in its own way. That whole area takes about 1/3 the time it takes for the rest, and then you get the yellow key, keep going, and eventually wrap around to another area, good lord. There's even an incredibly minor backtracking segment, one that tries to lock you in and find ANOTHER switch, before we reach the rather lackluster finale. The last room may look cool but a spiderdemon is no problem.

[Cynical]

I can't wait until the Misri Halek haters see Blood Sacrifice, hehehe.

(That map may be shorter, but it's more aggressively obnoxious in terms of progression and terrible monster usage.)

[Capellan]

Cynical said:

I can't wait until the Misri Halek haters see Blood Sacrifice, hehehe.

(That map may be shorter, but it's more aggressively obnoxious in terms of progression and terrible monster usage.)

I've already played it. Misri Halek is way worse because it goes on forever. (also, Blood Sacrifice has far less tedious monster usage)

[Spectre01]

Map 20: Misri Halek

Here it is, one of the most influential and highly praised maps in the PWAD scene. No doubt inspired by TNT's Pharaoh and helped to popularize the Egyptian theme that's been quite common even in recent popular WADs, like Ancient Aliens. I have a mixed opinion on throwing Doom demons in Ancient Egypt. Doom has always been a sci-fi themed game and you can't just throw cybernetic demons into whatever random setting and have them fit in. AA worked well because it combined the theme with high tech stuff. But I'm getting off track here. We're talking about Misri Halek here and not Scythe 2 Episode 2 or Epic 2 or map 32 in Valiant. Oh, and lest I forget the pyramid thing in Speedo Doom.

So is it worth the hype? Well, first of all it looks quite nice. The opening shot is visually striking and the sprite used for the Sphinx head looks excellent. The Egyptian pictures and hieroglyphs look a bit gnarly compared to the Powerslave ones seen in Epic 2 but the lighting and attention to detail still makes the inside of the pyramid look pretty good. The brown visuals can get a bit repetitive and there are quite a few rectangular rooms that look similar but thankfully there are two other distinct visual styles in the map. We've got the infamous Redrock+Lava caverns that would leave Erik Alm in a state of euphoria and the more interesting outdoor mountain hike to grab the yellow key. Once again the lava decides to heat up and become damaging there while being perfectly safe in the Scythe caverns.

The gameplay is mostly frontal and rather cramped, with plenty of labyrinthine hallways and small rooms filled with mostly Barons and Heck Knights. You're not given that many rockets and, while cells are plentiful later on for some BFG spam, the SSG will be doing most of the heavy lifting. I can't say it's particularly engaging but at least I wasn't bored or frustrated. The first Vile trap you encounter near some Chaingunners is bullshit though, since you're given no armour until well into the half-way mark and most likely sitting at 100HP with no place to dodge for cover. There are also 3 Cybers in locations prone to splash damage so there's some tricky stuff there. I lost all my 200/200 due to eating a rocket from the 2nd one and played the rest of the map at 100 or under HP.

Now, this is a pretty yuge and lengthy map. Took me just over an hour to clear and something like one and half the first time I played. While the map is actually quite linear, it's full of metal bars blocking various paths and it's often obscure what exactly opens when you flip a switch. There's a significant amount of backtracking too, especially near the end where some walls lower towards the pyramid entrance. It can definitely be frustrating due to the maze+switch hunt combination.

TL;DR: Pretty good map. Highly influential but ludicrously overrated. Eternal did everything better in Epic 2.

[dobu gabu maru]

The mixed reviews for MAP20 are getting me a little worried!

MAP18: Johnsen gives us a beefier outing to make up for his relatively light appetizer, and the map’s not too bad. Between this and MAP10, I knew there was a reason why I associated Alien Vendetta with the colors brown and green—Lake Poison is indeed an old wood ‘n brick outpost that houses loads and loads of nukage, only a scant few sectors worth that is curiously damaging though… I would’ve liked to see some more consistency but that critique is kinda a dead horse nowadays. The map is more or less split into three parts: the initial foray into the base, the three key sewer section, and the explosive finale. Each one fulfills its role adequately well I suppose, especially the imp flood in the sewers. Big issue for me were a couple of the instantly appearing enemies though, like those garbage AVs that show up just to toast you instantly. I think the map still holds up despite these issues, and even counting the puzzlingly pointless finale (an E1M2 hallway full of hitscanners? Really?), it’s probably Johnsen’s best effort thus far.

MAP19: Greatly adored the spiffy visuals in this one but wasn’t buying the gameplay. The use of trimming here is superb and showcases how strong METAL/SUPPORT3 is when used to break up sections of a repetitive wall. Love the elevated blue torches too. Unfortunately for the combat, I only found myself enjoying it at a couple of sections (arachnatron wing at the south, YK ambush, some AV use at the end), generally poo-pooing a lot of it for being linear. Thankfully the combat wasn’t actually bad—the switch to heavy arsenal ammunition at the end was greatly appreciated—and outside of some dumb monster block lines, I’ll confess this is probably one of the best E2 maps along with MAP14... perhaps I was just in a funk while playing it.

[antares031]

dobu gabu maru said:

The mixed reviews for MAP20 are getting me a little worried!

I'll be honest that I wasn't expecting these lots of negative opinions about MAP20. I also noticed some problems about this level from my review, but this much hatred? Still, I must say that MAP20 is one of my favorite levels from this megawad.

[T-Rex]

antares031 said:

I'll be honest that I wasn't expecting these lots of negative opinions about MAP20. I also noticed some problems about this level from my review, but this much hatred? Still, I must say that MAP20 is one of my favorite levels from this megawad.

Same here. I may not be a fan of sprawling maps (TNT Map21: Administration Center and TNT Map27: Mount Pain are examples of terrible slogs), but there are exceptions, like many of the maps from Eternal Doom, Rich Johnston's maps, and of course this one, which goes to show that massive, complex, sprawling maps can be fun if done right. Of course, it's an acquired taste, and there's some that don't like these kind of maps, no matter how good they are.

[Szymanski]

rileymartin said:

Map 20: Misri Halek
I have a mixed opinion on throwing Doom demons in Ancient Egypt. Doom has always been a sci-fi themed game and you can't just throw cybernetic demons into whatever random setting and have them fit in.

Ultimate Doom episode 4 isn't particularly tech. I appreciate what you saying and there's probably some realistic themes where Doom monsters won't work, I just don't see it with map20.

[baja blast rd.]

TimeOfDeath's recreation of the starting area of map20 is excellent comedy.

[Spectre01]

Szymanski said:

Ultimate Doom episode 4 isn't particularly tech. I appreciate what you saying and there's probably some realistic themes where Doom monsters won't work, I just don't see it with map20.

Episode 4 has that hellish aesthetic with demonic symbols and whatnot engraved into various wood and marble textures. To use another example, something like Scythe 2's Egypt episode doesn't feel like that demonic presence is there aside from a few lava pits here and there. I don't dislike that type of setting as I'm a big fan of Epic 2 and enjoy that Scythe 2 episode, but I feel it doesn't mesh that well with Doom's bestiary.

[rehelekretep]

215 secrets? now THAT'S a map folks ᕳ^‿^ᕲ

[Vorpal]

Heh I have to come out of lurk mode to chime in on the map20 hate. I too hated it from a traditional doom gameplay standpoint as soon as Kim shared it.

I know it's lame to tell people "WHY YOU SHOULD LIKE THING I LIKE" but oh well. Misri Halek is valuable not for its gameplay though but for its emotion. Despite doom being a goofy 90's cartoon shooter, Misri Halek feels like a place, though not necessarily a place you want to be. It's oppressive, confusing, maddening, dark... it makes you feel bad, alone. But it makes you FEEL. It's the same thing as an H.P. Lovecraft story, it will pull out dark emotions from you and play with them, if you let it.