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CaptainManiac

Does someone have avant garde maps?

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Hi.I wonder if the avant garde map projects like Wolfendoom:Blade of Agony,Batman Doom,Adventures of Square,A boy and his barrel,Doomwave and Black Metal Chainsaw are more and will replace the Terry traps in the future.I will be really happy if there are many avant garde maps.If there are avant garde maps we can talk about them and everyone can share his ideas.So are there many avant garde maps?

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The examples of wads you mentioned make me unsure of what exact design traits you are looking for (what does "avant garde" mean to you), but I guess Bauhaus could satisfy you.

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yakfak and TimeOfDeath occasionally do fairly unusual stuff, try searching idgames or the wads and mods subforum for threads started by them. yakfak may go by Zan-zan-zawa-veia

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does Grove count? you're in seemingly another world after having jumped after some fucker that stole the carrots from your garden, and the gameplay of it mostly consists of reading a map, solving strange puzzles guided by the clues it has, and occasionally shoot some demons, but being very ammo-starved throughout it all. oh, and the 10 billion trees everywhere that kills your framerate.

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Linguica said:

Calling things like Blade of Agony, Batman Doom, and Adventures of Square "avant garde" seems a little, uh, odd?

When I think of "avant garde Doom maps" I think more of, like, The Sky May Be, or gggmork stuff https://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/59913-gggmork-list-of-mork-maps-with-demos/ although most of those seem to be lost forever now :(

I think I grabbed all of those gggmork maps at some point. I'll double check when I'm home tomorrow.

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I'd learn what a word or phrase means before overusing it.






Now if you want high quality work and or 'something different', you have A LOT to choose from. Small list:

Stronghold: On the edge of chaos
Pirate Doom!
Winter's Fury
Romero Death Skittles
Action Doom
Action Doom 2
And if you don't mind me tooting my own horn, Skulldash

Above will give you hours and hours of top quality, enjoyable Doom experiences, in many different flavors.

If you're looking for more good quality stuff after this, then check out the The Cacowards.

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Ha ha, the cacowards are exactly where avant-garde isn't. They should be called The Sturgeon's Law Awards; 90% of everyone wins- the only criteria is that you produce crap. Winning a cacoward is like being employee of the month at McDonald's, or finally having your number called after waiting 4 hours at the DMV. The more retarded you are, the more the "community" wants to praise you as special. And who is this "community"? It's a facade, just like in real communism, the word it's based on. Doomworld is actually run by a meddling power elite, who rose to the top like the perfect metaphor, scum. Joseph Stalin said "The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything.", and that's what cacowards are, a rigged election where every monster you've ever killed casts a vote in their favor. The only place to find avant-garde, in their communist dystopia where everyone is socially engineered to be boring and equal, is post hell, where it has all been banned. The Doomworld elite don't even like playing or making maps. While you are busy creating, and experiencing the creations of others, they are busy figuring out how to control the platform where it is all allowed or not allowed to happen, the matrix. Controlling is their hobby, the hobby of high level autistic and idiot savant sociopaths. They think, why become skilled at any of the true elements that matter on a spiritual level when you can transcend it all and become the Dungeons & Dragons Dungeon Master, exactly like the CIA plant who started it all, John Carmack, used to be. As a false god, you can ban anyone exceptional so your mediocrity can rule over the remaining borg until you euthanize them. If you are any sort of individual and haven't been banned yet, your time is coming. Doomworld is just another tentacle of the illuminati, having hijacked the entire internet now. They put messages only visible to those who took the red pill by hiding them in plain view: it's not called "Doomworld" because it refers to the game, Doom. It's because all of you are doomed.

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fagggmork said:

Ha ha, the cacowards are exactly where avant-garde isn't.


Up to this point, I can't help but agree with the post. The Cacowards are all maps that are of high quality and that please all judges.
How to please all judges? Easiest way is to play it very safe. Very few maps that do something new get into it; Only example I can think of is dead.wire (Ohhhh, weird sky and shifting walls, spoopy~), though I think The Sky May Be made the mockaward at some point.

The rest of the post gives me a good idea for a jokewad, and this thread makes me want to call all my next jokewads avant-gardewads. :P


Anyway! My favorite avant-garde wads are Void and this massive clusterfuck I can't help but love:

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Well the last year Erkattäññe and Sheer Poison both won a Cacoward, and they were in the top ten not in the runners up or just mentioned briefly.

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gaspe said:

Well the last year Erkattäññe and Sheer Poison both won a Cacoward, and they were in the top ten not in the runners up or just mentioned briefly.

I wouldn't call both avant-garde. Sheer Poison, maybe, it's a bit insane at some points and plays differently enough. I don't know, I felt both walked on top of the walls of normalcy, but didn't jump to either side.
Erkattäññe had zany architecture going for it, yeah, but... So did Ancient Aliens and Stardate 200X, and you wouldn't call either avant-garde.

Edit: Nevermind, was confusing Sheer Poison with a different map. Okay, yeah. I gotta agree with that one.

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I'd argue community projects based around limitations such as 100 Lines, Monochrome Mapping Project and 50 Shades of Graytall lend themselves to the avant garde apropos completely arbitrary and self-imposed restrictions adding a certain 'flavour' to the overall works.

That is, when 'avant garde' is used correctly in a sentence and not as some kind of ignorant signifier of quality. Here's an example; gggmork's shitposting is avant garde. ;)

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Albertoni said:

I wouldn't call both avant-garde. Sheer Poison, maybe, it's a bit insane at some points and plays differently enough. I don't know, I felt both walked on top of the walls of normalcy, but didn't jump to either side.
Erkattäññe had zany architecture going for it, yeah, but... So did Ancient Aliens and Stardate 200X, and you wouldn't call either avant-garde.

Edit: Nevermind, was confusing Sheer Poison with a different map. Okay, yeah. I gotta agree with that one.


I know that Erkattäññe isn't really avant-garde, primarily I wanted to say that the Cacowards at least talk about stuff that it's different from the "AAA modern mainstream wads", even if not so much.

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FragMan! said:

I'm afraid you guys aren't sure what "avant-garde" means.

you could say they avant garde a clue what they're talking about

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There are shades of gggmork in there, but he's usually not as......irate, shall we say. And besides, his original account is still intact.

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an_mutt said:

you could say they avant garde a clue what they're talking about

I like this comment, heh.

I did remember something that could be considered somewhat experimental, especially so towards the end of the game. Play Nocturne In Yellow.

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