Name one thing Doom 16 is missing

[Bauul]

MrGlide said:

Archviles where the biggest thing I missed about it.

When they went with disappearing corpses, that kind of neutered the AV there and then. The Summoner basically plays the same role though, right?

[MrDeAD1313]

I've noticed a few of things from Doom II that were left out. Could mean they're waiting for the next installment to add those things in?

[Jaxxoon R]

It was a smart move not calling the summoner an archvile. The fire attack requiring you to take cover would go directly against the core design rule of pushing forwards, which I'm guessing is why they replaced it with the wave. And like stated previously, the lack of persistent corpses makes reanimation unfeasible. Take away all those iconic moves and it's not really an archvile.

On a slightly related note... honestly, I wouldn't mind the vanishing corpses if the effect at least looked cool. Something like Rondo of Blood's over-the-top incineration animations, instead of them just fizzling away and letting you see inside their models like they do now.

[Almonds]

They could've easily gone the Hideous Destructor route with the summoner and have the fire act as its own killable thing that follows you around, or at the very least homes in on you slightly instead of plain hitscan magic.

I don't see moving around to avoid taking damage from vile fire THAT antithetical to the 'always be on the move' concept either to be fair, I mean it's not like there's that many chances in the heist of a battle sequence where they have you go 'oh, I should probably take care of that', and having the vile do precisely that would certainly help give certain encounters a slightly distinct tinge inbetween them than the same old arena fights with little to no variation.

[Soundblock]

Jaxxoon R said:

persistent corpses

This, with all it entails.

Also, consistent health placement, not relying on monster drops to fill your health up, for that careful balancing of a map.

[Koko Ricky]

The Summoner is a pretty rad replacement for the archvile and I especially enjoy the feminine look because it gives her/it a very distinct, even elegant look. Summoning enemies is about as good as resurrecting them, although the latter is far more terrifying. In OG Doom, you'd see an archvile and this wave of fear would hit you, because you know you suddenly had to scramble to kick its ass before half the level was coming after you. With the summoner, you're more worried about simply having extra enemies to slay, and that's just not as intense (but still makes for great firefights).

One thing Doom '16 is missing is boss battles with more than one enemy. I mean, the second battle, with the hell guardians, does feature two at a time at the end of the round, but they're both considered boss enemies. In OG Doom, you were always fighting the boss alongside lower tier enemies, and this really added a lot to the fight. I don't really feel as engaged when it's just me and one guy (or the two guardians).

[Enforcer]

Good physics. Dark ambiance music when you are not fighting demons (something like Monorail level in Doom 3) instead of one looping, boring shitty track for each level that gets annoying really fast. More gritty and dark industrial levels like the foundry instead of clean tidy labs. More horror! More monster closets. More classical traps with opening walls and stuff. That's not one thing but who gives a shit

[MrGlide]

Bauul said:

The Summoner basically plays the same role though, right?

Not even close In my opinion, even though both are top priority threats, the archville far more so. The summoner forces you to move and spawns little zombies if you let her live, teleports and chases you down. Shes not to bad to let live as long as you keep an eye on her (if you don't kill her instantly for whatever reason). The archvile forces you to act on him immediately or suffer greatly as he will resurrect the threats you pumped resources onto before, not to mention you have to be out of sight when he fires because of hitscan, so the archvile can pin you down. Not to mention the health difference between the two. So where the summoner is more aggro the archvile is more control in their effectivness.

[Jaxxoon R]

Almonds said:

I don't see moving around to avoid taking damage from vile fire THAT antithetical to the 'always be on the move' concept either to be fair, I mean it's not like there's that many chances in the heist of a battle sequence where they have you go 'oh, I should probably take care of that', and having the vile do precisely that would certainly help give certain encounters a slightly distinct tinge inbetween them than the same old arena fights with little to no variation.

I agree somewhat. Take note though that "push forward" doesn't mean "always on the move." The designers recently had a panel where they explained how they took issue with players fleeing from monsters, and created mechanics to encourage specifically moving towards enemies. Always having the player moving is one thing, but to have them always moving in the wrong direction is another, evidently. I'd imagine the archvile could still work under this if they balanced it so the player will rush to kill it instead of rushing behind an obstacle.

[Trycon]

An option to keep the helmet as part of the HUD.


Just for that immersion factor.

[MrGlide]

@ Jaxxoon R, may I get a link to that panel if you don't mind?

[Jaxxoon R]

https://www.doomworld.com/vb/doom-2016-general/90587-a-whole-bunch-of-doom-videos/

[shotfan]

GoatLord said:

One thing Doom '16 is missing is boss battles with more than one enemy. I mean, the second battle, with the hell guardians, does feature two at a time at the end of the round, but they're both considered boss enemies. In OG Doom, you were always fighting the boss alongside lower tier enemies, and this really added a lot to the fight. I don't really feel as engaged when it's just me and one guy (or the two guardians).

The first bosses of OG Doom, the Bruiser Brothers, were fought alone.

[TheGamePhilosophe]

Non-linear level design.

[Cynical]

Any "oomph" to the weapons. Weak sound effects, weak animations, and weak enemy reactions make it feel like you're shooting nerf guns.

[Koko Ricky]

shotfan said:

The first bosses of OG Doom, the Bruiser Brothers, were fought alone.

Are you high? I'm not. I'm looking for a job. Aaaannnyyywaaaayyy, that is totally not true my friend. There's a bunch of spectres that come at you during that fight!

[tuo]

Technician said:

Doom 3 got that right.

Yep! IMHO, even better than Doom 1 and 2, and it was close to perfect (for the time) there.

I can't understand why they don't touch this, both in Doom 3 hell, and now Doom 2016 hell. It's what made episode 2 so perfect, because you constantly imagined what was happening there, even with the limits they had to work with regarding map design. It was perfect.

[tuo]

GoatLord said:

Are you high? I'm not. I'm looking for a job. Aaaannnyyywaaaayyy, that is totally not true my friend. There's a bunch of spectres that come at you during that fight!

IIRC, depends on difficulty. I currently can't be arsed to look it up, but I think beneath ultra-violance, it was spectre-free within the boss room.

So maybe the first time someone encountered them (depending on difficulty) stuck to their mind.

[TheBloodbanshee]

Death sounds of enemies. Compare the original baron's booming screech to the new Doom's baron's... lack of any death sound. I honestly prefer killing the OG baron

[TendaMonsta]

Never played the game or seen much footage, but it's ashamed they didn't have the pistol start approach which would be good for IL demos.

[ATP2555]

The only boss in Doom 3 who was assisted by normal enemies was the Cyberdemon.

Respawning Imps and Maggots was a terrible choice IMO. Even then, they were only there so you could charge the Soul Cube.

ID lost their sense of variety in the later parts of Doom 3 since they enjoyed putting FUCKING IMPS EVERYWHERE!

[Almonds]

Cynical said:

Any "oomph" to the weapons. Weak sound effects, weak animations, and weak enemy reactions make it feel like you're shooting nerf guns.

I don't know, both shotguns feel punchy as hell to me. Heck, brutal doom's are way quieter by a wide margin.

[snapshot]

TheGamePhilosophe said:

Non-linear level design.

Ugh : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonlinear_gameplay

[DooM_RO]

More varied Hell levels:

While the general art style in hell is incredibly authentic, it never really evolves beyond what you see in the first level.

Polar Ice cap levels:

I suspect this is cut content. The VEGA level starts outside the facility, where you can see the frozen landscape but you don't actually get to play in this environment. Snow on Mars is not something you see all that much in any sci fi media and I think this was a lost opportunity.

[TheGamePhilosophe]

DMGUYDZ64 said:

Ugh : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonlinear_gameplay

I suggest you read that article carefully and think hard about the levels of Doom 2016.

[snapshot]

TheGamePhilosophe said:

I suggest you read that article carefully and think hard about the levels of Doom 2016.

Res Ops, Foundry, Kadingir Sanctum & Lazarus Labs, Those are all non-linear if you "actually" played them .

Wikipedia said:

in games with nonlinear gameplay, players "might" have to revisit locations "or" choose from multiple paths to finish the level.

Say otherwise ..

[shotfan]

DooM_RO said:

More varied Hell levels:

While the general art style in hell is incredibly authentic, it never really evolves beyond what you see in the first level.

"Authentic"? Does that mean you have been in Hell, in real life? I think you meant "atmospheric".

[shotfan]

delete

[MrGlide]

Doom'16 was plenty non leinier, please don't feed him.

[Zemini]

Deathmatch
Modding tools
Cyberdemons (plural!)
Remaining Classic Monsters

Basically, the stuff that made Doom ... Doom! Don't get me wrong, the SP campaign is great.