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CrimCuttle

Can someone explain where Doom4 fits in the lore?

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Some people are saying it's a Doom1 reboot but others are saying it's a sequel to the DOOM games and I don't understand too well which is which.
I'd go with the Doom1 thing but I don't remember Doomguy (Doomslayer? aaAAAH) waking up from some spooky rune tomb.

Thanks in advance!

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They said they left the story open ended enough that you can make up your own mind what's really going on. It's non specific enough that either case could be true.

And now, some nerds will argue one case or the other:

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Officially, it is simply a Classic Doom reboot.

Among the fans, it can be considered as a sequel to Doom 64.

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Voros said:

Officially, it is simply a Classic Doom reboot.

Among the fans, it can be considered as a sequel to Doom 64.

Ah, ok.
This is what I was thinking, but I wasn't too sure.

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I don't really see how it can fit in with the other games, unless we're dealing with an alternate universe and the Doom Slayer comes from the Doom 64 universe?

But yeah, the UAC is still relatively new to demon research, Doomguy isn't even human nor does/did he work for the UAC, and everything seemed to be in tact before the demonic invasion we see in-game, which shouldn't be the case if there were previous invasions.

This is a complete reboot with its own lore. Trying to make it fit in, however cool that would be, seems completely ridiculous to me now.

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AwesomeO-789 said:

I don't really see how it can fit in with the other games, unless we're dealing with an alternate universe and the Doom Slayer comes from the Doom 64 universe?

But yeah, the UAC is still relatively new to demon research, Doomguy isn't even human nor does/did he work for the UAC, and everything seemed to be in tact before the demonic invasion we see in-game, which shouldn't be the case if there were previous invasions.

This is a complete reboot with its own lore. Trying to make it fit in, however cool that would be, seems completely ridiculous to me now.

Oh, ok.
A reboot would be cool, although I guess I was sorta hoping it would continue the original story.
Perhaps there will be more Doom games like such?

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Ì think it's part of the original series.

The demon smith didn't actually create a new armor for Doomguy, rather he improved it (which is why he can absorb the life essence of his enemies)

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AwesomeO-789 said:

But yeah, the UAC is still relatively new to demon research


There ya go. Reboot using the old lore.

It's called DOOM again for a reason. It's a reboot.

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Touchdown said:

And what, the whole world has completely forgotten about everything that's happened?


what do you mean 'the whole world'? literally about everyone is dead in the game and the only ones who know about doomguy's past experience with killing demons are Olivia and Samuel.

Remember the lore of the game basically ties each and every doom game, mod and map ever made into the official doom timeline, so 'the UAC fucks up yet again' isn't that far out. You could literally chalk it up as 'we dont give a single shit, let's just mine hell for stuff to use' this time around and it'd make perfect sense. And that's without taking the whole 'hell is a hub for different dimensions to pass through' deal into account.

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To use a trendy phrase, I suppose it's basically a soft reboot. It takes the basic premise of the first game and mixes it up with various elements from the series. I guess because Doom 64 ends with the player staying in hell to keep the demons at bay, some see it as a sequel. I kind of like that because in all honesty Doom 64 is probably the best classic Doom game that isn't Doom 2, in terms of the campaign experience.

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Almonds said:

what do you mean 'the whole world'? literally about everyone is dead in the game and the only ones who know about doomguy's past experience with killing demons are Olivia and Samuel.


If it's part of the original series then all the events from the previous DOOM games have happened. Like, you know, a demonic invasion of Earth. And as vague as DOOM4 story is, I didn't get the impression that anyone actually knows about Hell and demons outside of the UAC Mars base.

Almonds said:

Remember the lore of the game basically ties each and every doom game, mod and map ever made into the official doom timeline


And you're saying this based on what exactly? That literally makes no sense.

GoatLord said:

I guess because Doom 64 ends with the player staying in hell to keep the demons at bay, some see it as a sequel.


But the DOOM4 Doomguy is not the same one! The original Doomguy was not a leader of the Night Sentinels in some other dimension. That theory takes like one similiarity and ignores everything else.

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He stayed in hell in Doom 64, wandered around, ended up in the Night Sentinel's dimension, ended up in hell again after Argent D'nur was consumed, wandered around, was sealed, and then was released into Doom 4's universe. It's even mentioned in-game that hell has attempted to conquer multiple realms.

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Ahhh, so that's where it's going - multiverse? There are multiple versions of Earth with slighly different stories? I'm sorry, but the moment this becomes an explaination for 'connections' between works of fiction, any kind of dicussion is over. Because if we accept multiverse, then EVERYTHING is possible. We can literally have no clues whatsoever and still say it's all connected - because multiverse. We can tie all id games... hell, ALL games, books, movies and cartoons together - because multiverse. Reminds me of how they tried to 'explain' why there are inconsistencies between the backstories of superheroes in comic books. That's lazy.

Besides, if he stayed in Hell to kill as many demons as possible then how'd he end up in Argent D'Nur? Did he randomly find a rift to it and decided, "hey, my eternal struggle of killing demons can wait because I just feel like I want to form this order of warriors to protect people of Argent D'Nur from Wraiths - just because"? And then at the start of DOOM4 suddenly it's all about killing demons and nothing else again? That makes no sense.

Then again, that's something I don't like about the backstory for DOOM4. There are a lot of things that are mentioned once and never elaborated on again. Who is the seraphim? Who is the guy that gave Doomguy and armor and why? How did a high tech company turn into a regular satanic cult that officially performes human sacrifices? Why are they even doing it? Yeah, because they want to open the gates of Hell... Except that they're already doing expeditions to Hell so... what's going on?

So are those theories a possibility? Yeah. Because clearly id doesn't give a damn about story.

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That's a fun thing for you to believe when all the lead developers talked at length at how much they struggled to balance and present the narrative.

Why'd he stay in Argent D'nur? Maybe he was trapped, maybe he had amnesia. I don't know, wait for the sequel to actually confirm or deny it.

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Or we can discuss stuff and share opinions while we wait, no?

My impression has always been that the DOOM4 Doomguy was part of the Argent D'Nur society and only after it's destruction by forces of Hell, he began his one-man crusade against demons. That makes the most sense to me.

All the clues suggesting possible connections (like a mention of the Tower of Babel or the Soul Cube) feel more like simple references / easter eggs rather than evidence of anything. Or at least I don't see how that would work without involving the multiverse.

DooM_RO said:

The demon smith didn't actually create a new armor for Doomguy, rather he improved it (which is why he can absorb the life essence of his enemies)


It's not confirmed but I always thought that it was because of the seraphim, not armor. If the Testaments are in a chronological order (which they seem to be), the Doomguy could 'draw the strenght from his fallen enemies' BEFORE getting the armor but AFTER meeting the seraphim.

Also worth noting that the armor had to re-calibrate itself from some ancient rune-based language (Argent D'Nur? Hell?) to English at the beginning of the game.

Then again, it doesn't make sense either, because you can see stone-statues of the Doomguy and his Night Sentinel buddies in Hayden's office which suggests he had the armor before even metting the demon smith. But then it makes no sense why it's so high tech compared to armors of the Night Sentinels.

It really feels like they forgot to include half of the lore in the game.

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I get the feeling that a lot of the lore for the Doom Slayer is simply steeped in myth. Nobody knows the specifics of who and what the Doom Slayer is and the Doom 2016 storyline is written to be vague enough that multiple interpretations are viable.

Which I like, you can pick and choose which interpretation you want to go with and pick the one you think is cooler.

Doom Slayer was a guy who betrayed his own civilization for the promise of returning his dead son to Life, only to be himself betrayed by the Demons and then he vowed eternal vengeance against Hell? No problem if you like anti-heroes with questionable motivation.

If you don't like that, you can always elect to believe the Doom Slayer is the classic Doom marine who achieved immortality and super-human powers due to repeatedly surviving in Hell and going across multiple Hell dimensions and timelines, assuming Hell exists across both time and dimension, (and maybe meeting some super-natural beings who assisted him).

Or you can believe something completely different, because his backstory is so shrouded in myth and legend that anything goes.

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dsm said:

I get the feeling that a lot of the lore for the Doom Slayer is simply steeped in myth. Nobody knows the specifics of who and what the Doom Slayer is and the Doom 2016 storyline is written to be vague enough that multiple interpretations are viable.

Which I like, you can pick and choose which interpretation you want to go with and pick the one you think is cooler.

Doom Slayer was a guy who betrayed his own civilization for the promise of returning his dead son to Life, only to be himself betrayed by the Demons and then he vowed eternal vengeance against Hell? No problem if you like anti-heroes with questionable motivation.

If you don't like that, you can always elect to believe the Doom Slayer is the classic Doom marine who achieved immortality and super-human powers due to repeatedly surviving in Hell and going across multiple Hell dimensions and timelines, assuming Hell exists across both time and dimension, (and maybe meeting some super-natural beings who assisted him).

Or you can believe something completely different, because his backstory is so shrouded in myth and legend that anything goes.


That fits the franchise really well imo. Reminds me of the TNT blue eyed Icon of Sin.

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I'll believe he's the same marine as always, and he was just frozen in demon magic for like enough years for the universe to end and reset, taking a similar path and ending in a new demon invasion like in the previous universe.

TL;DR blame Made in Heaven.

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DooM_RO said:

Ì think it's part of the original series.

The demon smith didn't actually create a new armor for Doomguy, rather he improved it (which is why he can absorb the life essence of his enemies)

Demon smith?

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It's a reboot with its own lore and timeline. Some fans are trying to make it fit in with all the other games including doom3 and doom64 which makes no sense to me. Nevermind its doom not doom4, let us ignore that for starters...

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dsm said:

Doom Slayer was a guy who betrayed his own civilization for the promise of returning his dead son to Life, only to be himself betrayed by the Demons and then he vowed eternal vengeance against Hell? No problem if you like anti-heroes with questionable motivation.


We don't know if it's the Doomguy that betrayed people of Argent D'Nur. Doomguy has so many names, Doom Marine, Doom Slayer, Hell Walker, Unchained Predator... Betrayer (with a capital B) seems like someone else to me. And that's another annoying thing. There are so many characters, Betrayer, seraphim, "the wretch", Titan, Deag Grav, they're throwing them left and right yet we know nothing about them. Perhaps some find it satisfactory that it's vague but I see this as a shitty story presentation. Hell, that extends to the main plot too so it's not an excuse in my book.

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I like that it's vague. Part of the fun is piecing together the clues. If it was explained completely, there'd be far less to talk about. It'd also be really weird if there was the same amount of organized information on these ancient mythical dead dudes as there was on say, Samuel Hayden, because

a. that's not how scripture works, and then the demonic voice would prattle on for five minutes about something neither he nor the demons would care about, or

b. the UAC would know an extreme level of detail about something they've only recently discovered and had been completely ransacked by demons, making it unfeasible for archaeological study of the original civilization anyways

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CrimCuttle said:

Some people are saying it's a Doom1 reboot but others are saying it's a sequel to the DOOM games and I don't understand too well which is which.
I'd go with the Doom1 thing but I don't remember Doomguy (Doomslayer? aaAAAH) waking up from some spooky rune tomb.

Thanks in advance!


It's doesn't. Soft canon.

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Touchdown said:

We don't know if it's the Doomguy that betrayed people of Argent D'Nur. Doomguy has so many names, Doom Marine, Doom Slayer, Hell Walker, Unchained Predator... Betrayer (with a capital B) seems like someone else to me. And that's another annoying thing. There are so many characters, Betrayer, seraphim, "the wretch", Titan, Deag Grav, they're throwing them left and right yet we know nothing about them. Perhaps some find it satisfactory that it's vague but I see this as a shitty story presentation. Hell, that extends to the main plot too so it's not an excuse in my book.


Thankyou, I feel like this had to be said. Too many people assuming he is the betrayer and the icon of sin is his son.

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Touchdown said:

We don't know if it's the Doomguy that betrayed people of Argent D'Nur. Doomguy has so many names, Doom Marine, Doom Slayer, Hell Walker, Unchained Predator... Betrayer (with a capital B) seems like someone else to me. And that's another annoying thing. There are so many characters, Betrayer, seraphim, "the wretch", Titan, Deag Grav, they're throwing them left and right yet we know nothing about them. Perhaps some find it satisfactory that it's vague but I see this as a shitty story presentation. Hell, that extends to the main plot too so it's not an excuse in my book.

I don't personally subscribe to the theory that the Doomguy is the Betrayer (mostly because I don't like it), but I was just throwing it out there as an example of how some people choose to interpret his backstory, because as far as I can see, there's no irrefutable evidence that he's not the Betrayer, because according to the "official" myth, both the Betrayal of Argent D'Nur and the Doom Slayer's origin took place in "The First Age".
Kinda difficult to crack down on that one. There are loads of little objections one could raise against that theory, but none of them, afaik, are what I'd call "irrefutable evidence".

All those mythological characters don't bother me, because I don't consider them directly important to the primary plot, but I can understand why some people would get irritated by all those vague characters that the story doesn't go sufficiently in-depth with.
One other purpose they seem to have been invented for (besides vague "backstory" for the player character and to make the player feel like a badass), is perhaps to set up the sequel.
I won't deny, though, that it would maybe be better if some of those characters were given more depth, but considering how much lore material there is in this game, that might have ended up being a bit too much. But I dunno...

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Touchdown said:

Ahhh, so that's where it's going - multiverse? [...]
So are those theories a possibility? Yeah. Because clearly id doesn't give a damn about story.

I'm not sure whether I like the multiverse idea or not. On the one hand, it could really be interesting and they could put the whole Doom history into one big story. On the other side this could actually make everything boring because everything might happen anytime and you're just one of millions of possibilities thus irrelevant. Bioshock Infinite did an excellent, actually perfect, job on this topic: Multiverse explained with beginning and ending.

The multiverse idea would enable them to include existing story lines:
1) Armageddon on Earth (Slayer didn't survive Armageddon according to Codex and was sent to hell) (Testament I).
2) He began slaughtering in Hell. He got respect from the Sentinals (Testament I)
3) He began time travelling (Testament II + VI hint at that), maybe even multiverse travelling, and eventually entered the timeline of Doom 1 + 2. There he got the marine suit. The marine suit resembles common technology of that time. There he defeated the Titan (Icon of Sin) (Testament V).
4) He stays in hell (Doom 64) and continues slaughtering in past and future (Testament VI). Thats why ancient statues show a UAC marine suit armor.
5) Sometime he was given the Praetor Suit Upgrade by the wretch (Testament VI).
6) He gets trapped in Hell (Testament VII).
7) UAC finds him in the Doom 2016 universe of the multiverse.

The only constants in this timeline are Hell (it tries to invade different worlds (including earth) at different times) and Doom slayer which travels between dimensions.

I'm not sure whether I think this storyline is likely or not. It certainly would fit into the whole lore. You could even see Doom 3 there. On the other side id software said it's a reboot and the codex doesn't necessarily identify the Titan as the Icon of Sin.

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