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massivefanofdoom

How do you value Doom multiplayer?

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Edward850 said:

Considering it invented a word (deathmatch), it was pretty damn impactful.


Impactful, yes. Important nowadays, or even remembered, probably not so much. How many people are still playing doom mp? And how many of them are playing it sp even now doom 2016 is out?

Relative to the SP 'movement' behind this game, I personally still feel it was a drop in the ocean. Again, I'd probably need statistics.

And in terms of importance to the entire genre. In terms of what is more important to FPS's when you split them up into SP and MP, names like quake2 quake3 and unreal tournet are more seminal to the MP while doom, half life, unreal1, quake1, duke3d, shadow warrior, blood are more leaning towards always having catered for HC SP crowds, and games being remembered way more for their engrossing sp experience rather than their mp.

Edward850 said:

However you're also running into a problem post that. If you want to suggest that the Single Player might have had more influence, it's actually somewhat pointless to bring it up, seeing is there is no possible to quantify that.
It's like asking if there is more pies in the world than cakes. You have no hope in ever getting a correct answer to that question, so you are better off just saying they are both good.


That's the problem because there are no statistics. But sometimes you can get a feel of something and so I don't think the pie / cake thing was a good example.

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massivefanofdoom said:

How many people are still playing doom mp?

3 dedicated source ports, 300 unique players at peak hours, 1000 individual servers all up. That's the countable number, mind you as you can't count private games in alternative source ports with Doom's original multiplayer, Doom XBLA/BFG included.

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Edward850 said:

3 dedicated source ports, 300 unique players at peak hours, 1000 individual servers all up. That's the countable number, mind you as you can't count private games in alternative source ports with Doom's original multiplayer, Doom XBLA/BFG included.


I think those are petty numbers and only affirm what I suspected.

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Uhh, you might want to rethink that. Any company executive would kill for those numbers from a 22 year life span. No that's not an exaggeration, that's exposure you simply cannot buy, and quite frankly a really good indication of how well it did since before internet multiplayer was actually a thing.

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Edward850 said:

Uhh, you might want to rethink that. Any company executive would kill for those numbers from a 22 year life span. No that's not an exaggeration, that's exposure you simply cannot buy, and quite frankly a really good indication of how well it did since before internet multiplayer was actually a thing.


I feel like we are going in circles and might be all day. I will just repeat my main points and so will you and others. I think we can just disagree on them being good numbers nowadays when who knows how much more there are playing the sp wads and conversions (can we get a number for that?) - heck even I just started doom 2 now after i finished ultimate doom last month. Then I got final doom planned, master levels and lots of wads all on UV.

I think id were not thinking of those 300 peak players when they catered for the mp segment, but rather they thought - since mp is expected out of today's fps and has always been a part anyways, what if we can create a significantly different experience and somehow doom also becomes reknown for amazing mp? And I don't know if they succeeded. For me, they haven't. Id rather quake3 or UT.

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Edward850 said:

Did you actually play Doom multiplayer in the 90's? I think that's a very important point to note.


Did not have good internet, it was very expensive here. But I think it is besides the point. The point isn't if mp has always been a part of doom or not (it was and has been) or if i played it, the point it if it is a staple of the series or not, or rather if it was what helped propel the series. Me, I think not. But that doesn't mean id shouldn't provide it and that I am going 'mp is useless to me so therefore doom shouldn't have it'.

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Doomkid said:

I edited my posts to fix typos, I never once edited any insults out. Not sure what you're on about but lying ain't a good look either. EDIT: Actually, so far in this thread, you have called people elitist, trolls and slow - What I'm getting at is, it's time to stop


Who called you an ignoramus? I did use that term to describe some Youtubers spreading falsities that will be picked up by impressionable gamers, but I don't recall anyone directing that term towards you.

I called YOU slow and no one else, I called Edward a troll and no one else because he was acting like a troll, and once again there's a difference between labelling someone and asking them a question. I never flat out called anyone in this thread an elitist. You just wanna look for more reasons to keep this pointless fight going so you can get a good chuckle out of it because you think you are superior which is quite arrogant because as the saying goes "arrogance breeds negligence." And perhaps you should look in a mirror before calling anyone a liar here since I know that you did more then just edit your mistakes. It wouldn't surprise me at all if you edit your recent posts again after a while when I least expect it and hoping that I'll forget about it so that when other people read the thread they'll think I'm the antagonistic one, that's just pitiful dude if this conversation was in person, this wouldn't be happening.

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I like MP in new Doom. I wish for server browser and new MP updates much more than few hours of singleplayer campaign. It's only begining - same situation with SnapMap.

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@massivefanofdoom, if not for Doom's multiplayer, both past and present, a larger chunk of the community than you might think probably wouldn't be around and the amount of wads present on idgames would shrink by about 1/3rd instantly. Whole websites/source ports/sub communities with thousands upon thousands of users such as Dwango, Doom Connector and various BBSes in the past as well as ZDaemon, Skulltag/Zandronum, Odamex and several others today have always played an important role in Doom's popularity. I can't speak for others, but if not for MP I probably wouldn't even be part of the community as that's the main thing which inspired me join and begin mapping in the first place.

Edit: I just want to make another point about the numbers. On ZDaemon alone, over the course of 24 hours, you get about 600 unique IPs connecting, and ZD only accounts for about a quarter of the daily player count. I'm sure there are still several times more playing SP around the world, but it might demonstrate that the MP isn't such a small portion as it might seem at a glance.

tl;dr I can safely say it was more than a drop in the bucket. Obviously sp has the limelight and that makes sense, but it's been a large part of the game's staying power.

@Nod, I have no idea what you're talking about but please stop already.

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Doomkid said:

@massivefanofdoom, if not for Doom's multiplayer, both past and present, a larger chunk of the community than you might think probably wouldn't be around and the amount of wads present on idgames would shrink by about 1/3rd instantly. Whole websites/source ports/sub communities with thousands upon thousands of users such as Dwango, Doom Connector and various BBSes in the past as well as ZDaemon, Skulltag/Zandronum, Odamex and several others today have always played an important role in Doom's popularity. I can't speak for others, but if not for MP I probably wouldn't even be part of the community as that's the main thing which inspired me join and begin mapping in the first place.

Edit: I just want to make another point about the numbers. On ZDaemon alone, over the course of 24 hours, you get about 600 unique IPs connecting, and ZD only accounts for about a quarter of the daily player count. I'm sure there are still several times more playing SP around the world, but it might demonstrate that the MP isn't such a small portion as it might seem at a glance.

tl;dr I can safely say it was more than a drop in the bucket. Obviously sp has the limelight and that makes sense, but it's been a large part of the game's staying power.

@Nod, I have no idea what you're talking about but please stop already.


I see, that is good to hear and thanks for the input. We can debate intelligently like this without hurling insults, thank god.

And please guys, both of you shake hands and drop it. Agree to disagree and let us make up, come on.

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I Agree with Doomkid, Multiplayer was the reason why i started mapping and without it i wouldn't have discovered some great mods that even inspired me to work on Multiplayer mods, This is the thing SnapMap unfortunately seems to lack, You can't really get to play great SnapMaps with others most time .

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DMGUYDZ64 said:

I Agree with Doomkid, Multiplayer was the reason why i started mapping and without it i wouldn't have discovered some great mods that even inspired me to work on Multiplayer mods, This is the thing SnapMap unfortunately seems to lack, You can't really get to play great SnapMaps with others most time .

I don't understand why they don't let PS4, Xbox One, and PC users play at the same time yet we can share creations with each other.

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NodEliteX5 said:

I don't understand why they don't let PS4, Xbox One, and PC users play at the same time yet we can share creations with each other.

#1, the game would have to been set up to be cross compatible, #2, It's not something supported by microsoft and sony at this time, but there is talk about opening up cross platform play between the two, and #3, console users would be eaten alive by pc players like a fox in a hen house. The console would have to officially support keyboard and mouse to even have a chance.(edit) and whe're able to share creations because all the ports reconstruct the snapmaps using data that all said platforms already hold. Thats the whole idea about snap map and easy access.

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MrGlide said:

#1, the game would have to been set up to be cross compatible, #2, It's not something supported by microsoft and sony at this time, but there is talk about opening up cross platform play between the two, and #3, console users would be eaten alive by pc players like a fox in a hen house. The console would have to officially support keyboard and mouse to even have a chance.(edit) and whe're able to share creations because all the ports reconstruct the snapmaps using data that all said platforms already hold. Thats the whole idea about snap map and easy access.

Well then they should at the very least allow the console users to have cross platform play since they can't do it with PCs.

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actually it's been done with pc to one console or another before, Shadowrun for the xbox 360 did this if I remember correctly. It's more of a sony and microsoft political thing rather than a technical barrier. Hell out of any console race this one would be the easiest least difficult to do it on since the xbone and ps4 are so similer. https://gamerant.com/sony-xbox-one-ps4-cross-platform-play/

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Sig said:

Console war. That's why.

And PC war, in all honestly I don't dedicate myself to any particular company because I just wanna have fun when I'm playing while being able to do what I want during games. This whole console vs PC crap is annoying as hell.

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NodEliteX5 said:

And PC war, in all honestly I don't dedicate myself to any particular company because I just wanna have fun when I'm playing while being able to do what I want during games. This whole console vs PC crap is annoying as hell.


I was referring to you but Mr. Glide got before me. PCs aside, it shouldn't be surprising cross-console platform game play doesn't exist. Why would they do that? Sony and MS are in competition, and thankfully so. If one of them tanks, there would be no incentive to compete and stay on their toes the way they do, and the console that would remain would really be a piece of shit.

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Sig said:

I was referring to you but Mr. Glide got before me. PCs aside, it shouldn't be surprising cross-console platform game play doesn't exist. Why would they do that? Sony and MS are in competition, and thankfully so. If one of them tanks, there would be no incentive to compete and stay on their toes the way they do, and the console that would remain would really be a piece of shit.

I know the two have been competing for a long time but that's usually the exclusive franchises not the third party stuff that's available on more than one platform like DOOM for example

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NodEliteX5 said:

I called Edward a troll and no one else because he was acting like a troll

If you think I was acting like a troll, an actual troll would probably run rings around you. It's unhealthy to think that anybody who disagrees with you is a troll because that'll get you even more wound up by someone who really is actually trying to do so.

NodEliteX5 said:

I don't understand why they don't let PS4, Xbox One, and PC users play at the same time yet we can share creations with each other.

Cross platform play is allowed for both tge PS4 and Xbox One, see Rocket League as an example, but there's a catch. While Microsoft will allow it, Sony don't want their console playing with competing systems (apparently they don't consider the PC to be one, yet for some reason have stated that the PS4 is supposed to compete with the PC? It's weird).
Meanwhile everything else is just technical. Doom4 already has its own backend with dedicated servers, so there shouldn't be many issues regarding platform networking APIs. You won't be able to invite friends from other platforms to your active party, but matchmaking would function as normal. Or in theory anyway, because if they are using platform APIs to handle matchmaking itself, that suddenly becomes a lot more complicated.

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NodEliteX5 said:

I know the two have been competing for a long time but that's usually the exclusive franchises not the third party stuff


The third party stuff is a competition too. It's the main one at that, because it's where all the money is at. One console diminishes the other, the other siphons the larger portion of 3rd party revenue over to them.

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Edward850 said:

You won't be able to invite friends from other platforms to your active party


This is a big part of it, in that they don't want people you can't friend and communicate with, because of them being on a different platform. It gums up the works.

They want their platform's community to be easily unified.

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Edward850 said:

If you think I was acting like a troll, an actual troll would probably run rings around you. It's unhealthy to think that anybody who disagrees with you is a troll because that'll get you even more wound up by someone who really is actually trying to do so.

LOL now look whose trying to reignite the pointless argument again. Dude just drop it already and admit that you were wrong and stop assuming you know who I am as a person when you don't know Jack shit, I never call anyone a troll that I get into conflict or a disagreement with. MassiveDoomfan was in conflict with me once and not once did I call him a troll and same applies with Jaxxon and many others except you since your actions justify the reasons for you being called a troll.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

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NodEliteX5 said:

LOL now look whose trying to reignite the pointless argument again. Dude just drop it already and admit that you were wrong

Wrong about what? Everything I said about Doom multiplayer is factual, Doomkid even backed it up, so I'm a little lost here on why you keep dragging this back.

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Sig said:

The third party stuff is a competition too. It's the main one at that, because it's where all the money is at. One console diminishes the other, the other siphons the larger portion of 3rd party revenue over to them.

Well nevermind then, I stand corrected.

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Edward850 said:

Wrong about what? Everything I said about Doom multiplayer is factual, Doomkid even backed it up, so I'm a little lost here on why you keep dragging this back.

About acting like a troll which you continue to keep doing even though the conflict was already dropped with everyone else yet you decided to continue it by posting about what I said yesterday just to keep it going. Seriously get a life.

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NodEliteX5 said:

About acting like a troll which you continue to keep doing even though the conflict was already dropped with everyone else yet you decided to continue it by posting about what I said yesterday just to keep it going. Seriously get a life.

In what way have I trolled you? You keep failing to answer this question.

Sig said:

This is a big part of it, in that they don't want people you can't friend and communicate with, because of them being on a different platform. It gums up the works.

It didn't stop Rocket League. Nobody really cares if you can't invite someone from a different platform, they mostly just want matchmaking with different services.
It'd be tricky to do something about that anyway, as it'd require some weird interoperability between services, and you'd instantly have conflicts with things like profile IDs (which with the Steam client for example, are used as socket addresses).

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Edward850 said:

In what way have I trolled you? You keep failing to answer this question.


I already gave you the definition of what trolling is, there are multiple ways of doing it besides deliberately changing the subject to annoy others (which you have done with me several times but I was hardly bothered for the most part) playing dumb is another form of trolling when you know what the person is talking about but you act like you don't know what he/she is referring to even though in your mind you know exactly what it is but pretend not to know squat because you wanna piss them off by making them get frustrated with you.

Sorry buddy but trolling is useless when a person knows that you are doing it so you can keep trying over and over again as many times as you want but you ain't gonna get me mad about it, so go ahead and keep acting like you don't know what's going on when you actually do know, it isn't gonna faze me.

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