Dusk - Hexen + Quake + Doom

[Jaxxoon R]

DooM_RO said:

It boils my blood that some people think that deliberately making a game ugly automatically makes it more "oldskool". Fucking lazy hipster developers. I really hope this doesn't become a trend.

Any shooter from the 90s had a lot more artistry than this piece of garbage. I want to see actual effort in the art assets and atmosphere.

Okay we get it.

[jazzmaster9]

DooM_RO said:

It boils my blood that some people think that deliberately making a game ugly automatically makes it more "oldskool". Fucking lazy hipster developers. I really hope this doesn't become a trend.

Any shooter from the 90s had a lot more artistry than this piece of garbage. I want to see actual effort in the art assets and atmosphere.

Hey you can always change the settings to make it look worse (quuote from the devs)

[snapshot]

jazzmaster9 said:

to make it look worse

Ahahaha ...

[DooM_RO]

DMGUYDZ64 said:

Ahahaha ...

AKA "Tru Old Skool mode". Because old shooters are old and therefore ugly rite??!

[Jaxxoon R]

Sorry if you feel invalidated that it makes your favorite games look bad by association. You've stated three times already how much you hate this game's graphics. Do you have some beef with the devs or something?

[snapshot]

DooM_RO said:

"Tru Old Skool mode"

I don't believe in true Old School, They could just say Classic fashioned .

[jazzmaster9]

DooM_RO said:

AKA "Tru Old Skool mode". Because old shooters are old and therefore ugly rite??!

Nope they are Low Poly and Pixelated.
Not objectively Ugly.

[Cupboard]

Game looks really fun, really fun. The lack of detail actually can make a game feel scarier sometimes. The mind is allowed to wander

[Superluigieth1]

Watching that trailer reminds me of those cheesy Quake 1 mods with those custom models.

[Da Werecat]

"Retro" FPS games seem to follow one of the two tropes:

1. Old games were so cute and silly, tee-hee! So we made an exaggerated cute silly game for you!
2. Ew, old games were so ugly! So we spent as little effort on the visuals as possible to not hire any actual artists deliver the most faithful experience!

Or both at once. I dunno, maybe it's gonna be a great game - the teaser certainly looks promising, but I would criticize its visuals even if it was a free mod. And it's not.

CARRiON said:

then you get some boxes on a fork

Hands off the nailgun. It's one of the two actually decent weapon designs in Quake.

[darknation]

Low poly modeling is a lost art. Animating said models without a skeleton, moving each vertex by hand to achieve that proper, old-skool feel and look? I doubt anyone has the skillset these days.

Consider it. There was a window of about three years where this sort of 3D modeling was the norm. Artists who not only could create low-poly models, but understood enough about how the polygons would deform during the animation frames to make it look good. This sort of modeling was dying out even during the development of Quake 2, replaced in favour of segmented designs where deformation of the mesh was eliminated in favour of separate limbs / torsos / heads etc.

Easier to animate, sure, but it lacks the class of truly well thought-out mesh design.

[Da Werecat]

Did they actually move individual vertices?

It's just that I always thought the same, but then it makes me wonder why the head of the zombie fish in Quake is deflating to about 1/5 of its normal size during the death animation. It's hard to imagine anyone screwing up this badly without the "aid" of some sort of automatization.

And I wouldn't say that dividing a model into segments really helps with deformation. The segments still need to bend themselves, and to connect to each other in a plausible manner (unless you're making a simplistic robot).

[HorrorMovieRei]

The deformation/"jellyfication" of the models was way less noticeable back then because there was no interpolation for the models movement. So stuff like the rotfish's head deflating was harder to notice, specially for a small enemy such as him.

Da Werecat said:

Did they actually move individual vertices?

I would assume they selected a bunch of vertices and moved them together. Although the way some Quake models wobble uncontrollably suggests they might just have moved each vertex individually, which is crazy.

[Da Werecat]

The wobbling is due to the low precision of the format. A vertex has a certain minimal (and pretty noticeable) distance it can travel, so things distort when animated.

[HorrorMovieRei]

Ah, I see. I always thought the wobbling had something to do with the animating process.

[june gloom]

The worst has to be in Quake 2. Ugh, I can't stand the model animations in that game.

[Lila Feuer]

dethtoll said:

The worst has to be in Quake 2. Ugh, I can't stand the model animations in that game.

Everything in Kingpin looks like it's underwater.

[Da Werecat]

I heard that in md2 each frame of the model has its own values for scaling and offset. It means that each frame can use the vertex grid (which is the same size as in mdl) to its fullest; but when objects are essentially being resized/shifted each frame (with the scaling/offset compensating for it) it leads to even the supposedly static parts of the model wobbling during animation.

The mdl format sets scaling and offset for the whole model. The result is that only the moving parts wobble, which is apparently not as noticeable.

[TheWizard]

Cyanosis said:

Everything in Kingpin looks like it's underwater.

It's kind of funny how some of the first big full on 3D games looked like shit. It's like we went backwards in quality compared to the 2D games at the time. Look at the first Tomb Raider...ew

[Doominator2]

Isn't the guy doing the music the same guy that made the remastered Doom sound tracks?

[Mr. Freeze]

Doominator2 said:

Isn't the guy doing the music the same guy that made the remastered Doom sound tracks?

Ewwwwww. Ew. Blech, more chugga chugga widdly-wah widdly bullshit. Christ.

[HorrorMovieRei]

Doominator2 said:

Isn't the guy doing the music the same guy that made the remastered Doom sound tracks?

He also did the music for the ROTT reboot.

[Varis Alpha]

Mr. Freeze said:

Ewwwwww. Ew. Blech, more chugga chugga widdly-wah widdly bullshit. Christ.

i actually found the Doom remix soundtrack to be quite palatable and tasteful. yeah ROTT is a giant mixed bag and doesn't do a lot of the MIDI originals justice, but IDKFA is really good. i'd even say that Sonic Clang's finally been trumped for best E1 replacement music now. the only really bad track is They're Going To Get You, it's just awful, but everything else is nice. and extended Facing the Spider? that's pretty fucking rad if you ask me.

[Nictendo]

I can understand paying homage to your favorite classic FPS games, but to make a game who's entire identity is to point out its own similarities to said games is a bit of a mistake. I'd much rather see them do what we saw in Serious Sam or Painkiller. It's quite possible to make a new "classic" FPS and still innovate. They aren't mutually exclusive. I imagine it will still be a decent/fun game on its own when it releases, I just hope future marketing isn't going to rely on nostalgia baiting exclusively.

[Koko Ricky]

The late 90s era of 3D graphics hasn't aged with the same charm as 2.5d games like Doom. This looks more like the product of people who aren't very skilled, rather than a throwback to an older era...

[june gloom]

I disagree, I'm very enamored of the late-90s PSX look and I love when it pops up now and then in new games.

[Koko Ricky]

I like the PSX/N64 look too, believe it or not, I just don't like the look in shooters from that era. And more often than not texture filtering on old school graphics looks bad. I dunno. I've seen this sort of thing work before.

[june gloom]

The only thing I dislike from the 5th-gen console era is the Playstation's lack of z-buffer which led to the jittery textures and warped polygons. Well, that and the N64's awful, awful texture filtering.

[MrGlide]

it might sounds weird, but I really liked that look and feel for the plastation games. I dunno, it just gave them a different feeling.

[Mr. Freeze]

Viscra Maelstrom said:

i actually found the Doom remix soundtrack to be quite palatable and tasteful. yeah ROTT is a giant mixed bag and doesn't do a lot of the MIDI originals justice, but IDKFA is really good. i'd even say that Sonic Clang's finally been trumped for best E1 replacement music now. the only really bad track is They're Going To Get You, it's just awful, but everything else is nice. and extended Facing the Spider? that's pretty fucking rad if you ask me.

I mean fair enough if it's not the worst thing on earth, but I'm so used to Doom's instrument choices that hearing guitars on almost every track drives me nuts. Sign of Evil covers tend to be especially grating in this regard- and IDKFA's brickwalled, super-dense mix really let me down with that song. And that's just one example for me.

That said, the Havana Smooth from RoTT '13 is legitimately great.