TNT: Resistance (final version posted!)

Get around this one (about time!) on UV, my thoughts on the 5 maps played so far: 

 

Map 01: Small, action-packed simple opening map. A good introduction to the set

 

Map 02: Liked both aesthetics and gameplay. There are two tricky areas: when you enter the canyon that holds the RK where you have to deal with PEs and revenants with RL, dangerous but fun. Second one is the SSG room with the arch-vile-revenants-cacos ambush: better to enter here with some good health/armor. Visually my favourite part was the circular area with mancubus and spectres, really well made both the layout and the lighting.
A very good map.

 

Map 03: Not bad. What I like of this map are the section that holds the red key, the big outdoor area with some fun infight encounters, and the exit area. The latter present very good details and a good lighting. 

 

Map 04: Big, sort of adventure style map, thematically connected with the previous map (a thing that I personally appreciated). The theme depicted (a dark tech-base with a moderate big outdoor area) is well executed thanks to a good use of light/shadows effects (better then the previous map) and to some neat, TNT style, details. The layout is also very good.
Gameplay start with somehow low resources which, the more you proceed, became more abundant making the overall progression fun and immersive. The first time I complete the level I managed to find all the secrets and the cyber appearance was a nice a "oh fuck" moment (I like the red lights that forewarn the ambush). My favourite map along with map 02.

 

Map 06: The toughest of the set so far, mainly due to the low health compared to considerable threats in the beginning stages; searching secrets is helpfull in this level and I managed to find all of them which gave me the possibility to tackle the hardest fights with good resources. Visually is not bad, my favourite sections are the pit with the Mancubus in the pillar and the big outdoor area hosting the cyber-arachnotrons ambush (which is, so far, the hardest fight of the set).

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Finished the wad:

 

Map 07: A breather level compared to the previous map. Thematically similiar to map 04 but on smaller scale with some good sections like the exit area. 
I enjoyed this one.

 

Map 08: Another big adventure-like level. Some cool areas here like in map 04: I particulalry liked, in this regard, both the spiral staircases areas and the big outdoor areas of the map, very well designed. Wasn't a particularly difficult map in general; there is enough ammo and the secrets are rather easy to find except for the most useful one that I find after I completed the map basically. Overall this was a neat final level with a good replayability factor.


Honestly I'm  not a fan of tnt. For this reason I get around this only recently. Fortunately this has little of the most of TNT, apart some textures and the gameplay is very enjoyable, cool mapset

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Sorry, I've not been keeping up lately with Doom-related stuff. I've also not had a whole lot of motivation behind leading projects such as these, so concerning the black hole that is MAP05 (and this project in general) I don't have much else to say about it other than maybe leaving the MAP05 slot open if anyone happens to feel inspired enough to contribute. Although from what I've gathered from half-a-year past this project hasn't gathered very much attention (and my inactivity doesn't help very much either). Otherwise, I would like to see this thing finished, and for the most part I think my maps are finished at least; not sure if there were any other changes that were needed other than hearing that AD_79 wanted to use a MIDI on his map.

 

Honestly, this whole project was somewhat of a test to see how I'd handle running a project in a public setting, and seeing how mixed things have been during development I doubt I'll attempt to run any other projects such as these. I don't know...maybe it's the curse of the TNT-titled projects that keep it from being released, lol.

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What's the status here? OP says all done except for a missing middle map.

 

if its just some testing and some tweaks here and there, I'm sure I could spruce it up and release it

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Sorry to see you are a little disillusioned Valkiri, but i think it is worth getting the set done and out there though, certainly this thread has had a decent number of views for a pretty small project.

 

I spoke to AD and we can do a collab to get that map05 slot filled if you like... i have an unused, unfinished layout that has potential to build a cool map.

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Sup valkir long time no see. As I wrote in a playthrough this is a pretty solid vanilla mapset (with some rather impressive stuff like map 04 which is great, also considering is vanilla only), I enjoyed it. Like Scotty said it worth to be released

Edited by Paul977

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On 6/23/2017 at 6:06 PM, Scotty said:

Sorry to see you are a little disillusioned Valkiri, but i think it is worth getting the set done and out there though, certainly this thread has had a decent number of views for a pretty small project.

 

I spoke to AD and we can do a collab to get that map05 slot filled if you like... i have an unused, unfinished layout that has potential to build a cool map.

 

You guys can go ahead and do that if you like - I'll be sure to check in more frequently and we'll see if we can get this finished up after all. Also I'm curious if AD has a midi he'd like on his MAP02; otherwise most maps pretty much have the regular TNT midi which I don't mind.

 

On 6/23/2017 at 5:51 PM, 40oz said:

What's the status here? OP says all done except for a missing middle map.

 

if its just some testing and some tweaks here and there, I'm sure I could spruce it up and release it

 

All that's really needed is something for MAP05; I don't remember if there were any other tweaks that were needed but testing is always nice, so that is welcome.

 

12 hours ago, Paul977 said:

Sup valkir long time no see. As I wrote in a playthrough this is a pretty solid vanilla mapset (with some rather impressive stuff like map 04 which is great, also considering is vanilla only), I enjoyed it. Like Scotty said it worth to be released

 

Glad to hear you enjoyed it! I also hope this can get released soon enough.

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@valkiriforce here's a little update for map06 that makes some very minor changes and bugfixes, tutti fruttis etc.

 

Hopefully myself and @AD_79 can present something for map05 soon, maybe before the anniversary of this thread in a couple of weeks...?

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That's good to hear - I'll be sure to update it soon enough.

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Posting some feedback on map 2 to remind myself I need to get back to this project and finish up what's left of it.


MAP02:

Playing on HNTR: I would reduce the number of Barons in the starting areas maybe by just one or two on the easy difficulty. Also the arch-vile that teleports there can be pretty lethal for people playing casually on the lower difficulties. The revenants you fight in sectors 268 and 269 also might need some adjustment - even though a soulsphere is provided, it could prove to be agitating for people looking for a more casual playing experience. The surrounding monsters closets of sector 240 might also call for a possibly frustrating encounter on ITYTD/HNTR given there's four more revenants that could potentially pin the player in the middle. You could maybe replace the southern two with demons or something less brutal for a lower-difficulty player.

 

bugs: the lift at sector 147 sinks into the floor when you use the switch triggers at linedefs 1296 and 1302. It's likely to do with sector 283's floor height.

 

I tested map 6 but didn't write my feedback at the time - I was pretty sure it involved some linedefs with potential tutti-frutti effects in vanilla doom, but I'll be sure to test it again soon.

 

EDIT: Also updated first post with new screens since photobucket finally kicked the bucket.

 

double edit: updated with beta 6 - hopefully it's the correct version since I have several RESIST.WAD files scattered in different folders, lol.

Edited by valkiriforce
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Map 06 ...

 

MIDBARS3 on line 2037 bleeds into the floor/ceiling in software mode. To fix just give either sector 420 or 421 a brightness difference of 1.

 

Lines 1408, 1636, 1639, 1642, 1458 could be flagged secret.

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Map05 is always in progress? We can hope to see this map soon?

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I haven't heard back from @AD_79 about it in ages :(  If he doesn't reply here i'll assume he completely lost interest and could finish the map myself, or if someone else wants to collab i could send them the WIP.

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yeah um I tried working on it a few times, the ideas weren't flowing and I got nowhere with it, sorry. Would love to see it finished though.

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I'm busy with making a map of my own at the moment, but if by the point I'm done and nothing has still been done with the map, I'm always happy to finish the job off for anyone that needs help. :)

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15 hours ago, hawkwind said:

Map 06 ...

 

MIDBARS3 on line 2037 bleeds into the floor/ceiling in software mode. To fix just give either sector 420 or 421 a brightness difference of 1.

 

Lines 1408, 1636, 1639, 1642, 1458 could be flagged secret.

 

Thanks - will fix that bleeding bug. Regarding the linedefs you mean hide them on the automap? I could do that i guess... that is a very specific thing to give feedback on :P

 

2 hours ago, AD_79 said:

yeah um I tried working on it a few times, the ideas weren't flowing and I got nowhere with it, sorry. Would love to see it finished though.

 

That's a shame man. I was wondering if that first area might be causing problems with vanilla limits and was even wondering if anything was actually workable with it - i hope that didn't put you off. I'll work on the map some more, and if that proves to be the case might just create a completely new map anyway.

Edited by Scotty

Posted (edited)

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Hey @AD_79, did you still want to find a unique MIDI for your MAP02? I remember you bringing this up at the time you sent it in.

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If I remember correctly, I included one in the wad file. Re-download it if necessary.

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4 hours ago, Scotty said:

 

Regarding the linedefs you mean hide them on the automap?

No. Using the "secret" linedef flags shows the line red, to simulate a solid wall.

 

Map 08 ...

 

It appears that the player must get to sector 158 to eventually get the secret at sector 409. I was trying from sector 165 and nearby to access this sector. Try as I might I failed. Am I doing something wrong or is sector 158 impossible to reach ( bar cheating ? ).

 

Edited by hawkwind

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37 minutes ago, hawkwind said:

No. Using the "secret" linedef flags shows the line red, to simulate a solid wall.

 

Oh i gotcha. In GZDB, in my version at least, the wording is different ("show as 1-sided on automap") hence the confusion.

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2 hours ago, AD_79 said:

If I remember correctly, I included one in the wad file. Re-download it if necessary.

I checked the one that I have, but it has no midi, so I probably had the wrong one. Checked the updated version in this thread, and the file is unavailable. Might have to share the new one - sorry I hadn't noticed it previously.

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The link must have broken when Dropbox changed how the public folder worked a while back. Try this. I'll let you make any necessary edits/fixes, if that's alright.

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23 hours ago, valkiriforce said:

MAP02:

bugs: the lift at sector 147 sinks into the floor when you use the switch triggers at linedefs 1296 and 1302. It's likely to do with sector 283's floor height.

Yep! Sector 283's floor height needs to be changed to -288, to match sector 186's floor height.

 

Edited by hawkwind

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On 10/9/2017 at 8:14 PM, hawkwind said:

Map 08

I take it you were referring to MAP07? I did manage that jump in a number of attempts - you have to walk slow enough to reach the edge of sector 158 (closer to vertex 664, to be exact) without hitting you head on the ceiling above it.

 

MAP06:

 

Lines 117, 184, 1938 and 1596 all have the tutti-frutti effect in Chocolate Doom. Line 117 can't be fixed - it would have to be a different texture taller than 16 units. The door texture (line 1938) should have a Y offset of 0 instead of 8. Lines 184 and 1596 should have the lower unpegged unchecked.

 

Don't really have any complaints about this level, only that the difficulties could use a little adjustment. Playing on HNTR was still pretty brutal in places - namely the nukage area where my radsuit was wearing out over fighting a pain elemental spawning lots of lost souls and by the time I got to fighting the cyberdemon it had worn out, so I had to balance on the walkway while fighting them. I'd also taken a dive in health at first because I didn't find the armor secret, and there were quite a few gunners in the opening areas after the start. I really don't mind this kind of brutality on UV; it's really more the casual players on lower difficulties I'd imagine having a hard time with it.

 

MAP07: @dt_

 

Line 2509 has a tutti-frutti effect. Fixing it only messes up the placement of the switch so I'd suggest just lowering sector 464 and placing the exit switch on the wall there underneath the exit sign so they don't conflict with each other. Make sure the exit sign's Y offset is set to 0 afterward.

 

Linedef 2082 has the tag 32 assigned to it with action 38 (W1 Floor Lower To Lowest Floor) but there are no sectors with the tag 32.

 

Linedef 2612 has the tag 30 assigned to it, but no action. I take it this was meant to open the exit since there's no way out of the last area.

 

Didn't have any problems with this either - only HNTR seemed oddly low in oppression. Maybe let a few more enemies appear in the easy difficulty?

Edited by valkiriforce

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On 12/10/2017 at 1:42 PM, valkiriforce said:

I take it you were referring to MAP07? I did manage that jump in a number of attempts - you have to walk slow enough to reach the edge of sector 158 (closer to vertex 664, to be exact) without hitting you head on the ceiling above it.

Yes, sorry. It does work, as you say. Quite difficult though. Have to be in just the right position.

Edited by hawkwind

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I've updated the FP with beta version 7 - joe-ilya has the MAP05 slot again with a newly completed map, also there's a few new music tracks, a new title screen and map titles on the intermission screens. I'm hoping we can get this finished and released before the end of the year - I'm just waiting to hear back on a few things concerning the feedback above.

 

Also I did play joe's new MAP05: Didn't have any problems playing this in chocorenderlimits; it's a difficult map with some really cruel traps that left me low on health and with no ammo left - adding to that an arch-vile resurrecting a lot of monsters from one of the previous traps. I ended up having to get them to infight among themselves until the arch-vile was killed, and slowly picked up from there with all the newly dropped ammo. It's funny since by the time I did get some additional ammo and reach the exit, I was nearly overstocked on shotgun shells. Made it out with 50% secrets. Haven't checked the lower-difficulties just yet (played on UV) but I'll be sure to take a look at it later. Otherwise I don't really have any problems with this map; seemed really tight on ammo when it got crowded but it was kind of thrilling.

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Update to map06, hopefully fixed those various linedef issues and calmed the lower difficulties a bit. Haven't been able to test though, sorry, am away from home and don't have all the usual array of source ports on this laptop.

 

I did play joe's map a couple of weeks ago and tbh thought it was his usual clusterfuck of enemy placement, enemies shunted in for the sake of it; which slows gameplay to a crawl and makes for a pretty tedious experience. The map would play far better with either more considered but less dense placement, or more resources, especially given that it is in the middle of the set.

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Thanks for the update! The final version is now posted. A big thank-you to all the mappers and testers involved; I will upload this in the coming weeks.

Edited by valkiriforce
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This might end up being the most rejected request ever, but, could this TNT wad have the Devilution status bar?? (yes, I became obsessed with status bars).

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