Test my first map, an E1M1 remake! (For Doom 2)

[Koko Ricky]

EDIT: New upload 2017!

https://www.mediafire.com/?b3kt81rw59wnw4t

I resurrected this thread because I finally got around to adding difficulty levels for easy/medium/hard and tested it to death. I'd really love some input.

The beloved armor room.


Rather than create a zig-zag toxic area, there is an upper floor with a sewer, which you can see part of on the far right.


The computer area alcove with a more expansive space.


What every off-world facility needs are chambers for growing vegetation.


You can't see it here, but there is an accessible sewer system that essentially takes the place of the previously mentioned zig-zag area.

[JohnnyTheWolf]

The screenshots are not working.

[Koko Ricky]

Fixing that...

[JohnnyTheWolf]

Thanks!

But how am I supposed to launch the map? I tried adding -file e1.wad to my GZDoom shortcut, but it just launches vanilla E1M1 with a different sky.

[Koko Ricky]

JohnnyTheWolf said:

Thanks!

But how am I supposed to launch the map? I tried adding -file e1.wad to my GZDoom shortcut, but it just launches vanilla E1M1 with a different sky.

I confusingly didn't mention it's a Doom 2 map. I've since made that clear in both the subject and the OP. Sorry!

[JohnnyTheWolf]

The map itself is good. However...

- There does not seem to be enough ammunition on Ultra-Violence.

- Not a big fan of unopenable doors, especially when they are visually impossible to distinguish from actual doors. Some of them do not even seem to make sense, like the one in the dead end with the Archvile.

- The shell box in the area with the barrels and the Hell Knight appears partially stuck inside a pipe.

- The Mancubus seems stuck in the railing and did not attack.

- The timed puzzle to open the train doors is unnecessarily annoying. Why can they not stay open?

Out of curiousity, what is the John Carpenter-esque music?

[Koko Ricky]

JohnnyTheWolf said:

The map itself is good. However...

- There does not seem to be enough ammunition on Ultra-Violence.

I noticed a few times that things get hairy if on UV. I think I'll scatter more ammo around.

JohnnyTheWolf said:

- Not a big fan of unopenable doors, especially when they are visually impossible to distinguish from actual doors. Some of them do not even seem to make sense, like the one in the dead end with the Archvile.

I was trying to create that sense of the space being larger than it is, and I imagined that those doors would lead to other areas of the facility, except that you don't have access. Did it not make sense because you didn't know what was on the other side? Or because it seemed like, "Why is there an extra area here?" Maybe I could use a different door texture for doors that aren't accessible...

JohnnyTheWolf said:

- The shell box in the area with the barrels and the Hell Knight appears partially stuck inside a pipe.

Will fix that for sure.

JohnnyTheWolf said:

- The Mancubus seems stuck in the railing and did not attack.

That too.

JohnnyTheWolf said:

- The timed puzzle to open the train doors is unnecessarily annoying. Why can they not stay open?

Good question. I think I'll just keep them open then!

JohnnyTheWolf said:

Out of curiousity, what is the John Carpenter-esque music?

I composed it in FL Studio.

[JohnnyTheWolf]

GoatLord said:

I was trying to create that sense of the space being larger than it is, and I imagined that those doors would lead to other areas of the facility, except that you don't have access. Did it not make sense because you didn't know what was on the other side? Or because it seemed like, "Why is there an extra area here?" Maybe I could use a different door texture for doors that aren't accessible...

Or maybe you can make them look like they are broken or stuck.

My issue with them is that I was not sure if they could be opened remotely, which is usually the case in vanilla Doom. Only after typing in "give allmap" did I realise it was not the case.

Also, in the case of the dead end with the Archvile, the door just does not make any sense, because on the other side of it, there is a wall with a bench.

[Koko Ricky]

JohnnyTheWolf said:

Or maybe you can make them look like they are broken or stuck.

My issue with them is that I was not sure if they could be opened remotely, which is usually the case in vanilla Doom. Only after typing in "give allmap" did I realise it was not the case.

Also, in the case of the dead end with the Archvile, the door just does not make any sense, because on the other side of it, there is a wall with a bench.

Yeah, I think I could rework that area a bit. See, I wanted to create this kind of scary moment, where an upper tier enemy appears unexpectedly. I think maybe the architecture in that area could be improved to make it seem more like it's art of the facility...

[JohnnyTheWolf]

And it worked. It is just that the architecture does not make any sense.

An easy fix would be to get rid of the bench and makes it so the door is connected to the room with the screens and only openable from the Archvile's side.

[lil'devil]

You're saying that your map might work with Vanilla, but Vanilla doesn't support MP3s, does it?

Anyway, as soon as i get home, i'll test it with Chocolate and will see how it works.

[Koko Ricky]

Yeah, all the features are literally vanilla except the use of an MP3 so I'm not sure which port to recommend...

[AD_79]

^ If it's vanilla map format, PRBoom+ -complevel 2 sounds like what you want, as that port supposedly supports MP3 files (not that I ever got them working on my end, converting to OGG worked out nicely though).

[Koko Ricky]

AD_79 said:

^ If it's vanilla map format, PRBoom+ -complevel 2 sounds like what you want, as that port supposedly supports MP3 files (not that I ever got them working on my end, converting to OGG worked out nicely though).

I'm not sure what you mean. But I do know it'll take up a lot of space if the music in in OGG as opposed to MP3...

[Koko Ricky]

And by the way, JohnnyTheWolf, you're a shining example of providing feedback. You got straight to the meat of the problems you found and pointed out very specific bugs. It's really important to find even the most subtle missteps so a map can edge closer to reaching an ideal state.

[JohnnyTheWolf]

Why, thank you! :D

English is not my first language, so describing issues I find is not always an easy task.

[Koko Ricky]

I'll be updating soon with another upload. I completely changed the opening so that it's now also an annoying space hatch. They're a bit cumbersome, but I feel they convey that sense of the toxic Martian atmosphere versus the pressurized, oxygenated interiors. Also threw in a nicer landing pad. I also added more ammo but still wound up with scarce resources after doing a UV run.


It's really important that the first image you see when you load a map entices you. Going for a bit of a dramatic opening here.

[JohnnyTheWolf]

Looking good! Do you plan to remake other Doom 1 levels after that?

[Memfis]

I liked this map. It seems like you put a lot of effort into designing each area as they don't look cliched and don't really remind me of anything else. That cacodemon area with green vines is really beautiful. I agree the ammo balance on UV is a bit harsh, but at least you're given a berserk pack so maybe it's not such a big problem.

Aside from the already mentioned problems, I noticed that thing 223 (zombieman) is stuck in a nearby chair when playing in prboom-plus (in zdoom I guess not). Also I think linedefs 63, 1021 and 4845 don't need the "upper unpegged" flag because it looks weird how the door just kind of vanishes instead of moving up. Unless you wanted it to have special behavior because it's a secret door.

Pretty cool overall, with some nifty ideas here and there (I liked shooting at the eye switch in order to escape the yellow key area) and a bunch of optional areas to explore, which is always nice.

[Bauul]

GoatLord said:

I was trying to create that sense of the space being larger than it is, and I imagined that those doors would lead to other areas of the facility, except that you don't have access. Did it not make sense because you didn't know what was on the other side? Or because it seemed like, "Why is there an extra area here?" Maybe I could use a different door texture for doors that aren't accessible...

Doom has a simple visual language that has some internal truths that should never be broken: one being that if there is a door shaped sector that has a door texture on it, it WILL open. Either remotely or otherwise. Unless you have an extremely good reason, messing with that will just annoy and confuse players.

There are other ways of suggesting a map is bigger than it is without using doors that simply don't open. Some ideas:

- Have a door stuck a foot off the ground. Doors in Doom always go from fully closed to fully open, so something a little off the ground is automatically clear it won't work.
- Have a fully closed door, but put a hole in the middle of it. Again, the distinct visual difference is shorthand for "this is not a real door". Make sure you put some kind of corridor behind so it at least looks like it was once a real door.
- Don't have a door, instead fill the corridor with a barrier of some sort: crates are an easy choice, or perhaps a collapsed ceiling, or if you're very clever with positioning the Burning Barrel thing (or one of the Red Firesticks) you can make it look like the area is on fire (and then use Impassible tags to stop progress).
- Or instead of a barrier, have a hole. Like the floor has fallen away, then build a faux corridor behind.
- Instead of a corridor, have something like a big air vent with a grate across it, or a drain for a liquid of some kind (like a sewer pipe). Players wouldn't even presume to travel down it, but it still adds to sense of scale.
- Finally, if all else fails, just have the door open to a tiny room with a Cyberdemon inside.
- That last one may have been a joke.

[Naitelveni]

Hey,

Congrats on your first map! It's really nice! The map atmosphere was good, texture alignment is nice.
I like that there are multiple areas: sewage, outdoor, sewage tank, computer and the railway!

I spotted two bugs:
In the Armour room it was possivle to strage run ontop of the computers and fall down and then get stuck.

In the railway-area on the ledge where the switchroom is there is a ledge that bugsout,
the reason is becuase you placed the ledge between the floor,
I know it should look nicer but it doesnt draw it as it should,
put the ledge on the edge of the wall to draw it correctly.

Gameplay: the gameplay starts out nicely,
few easy encounters before you get to the real action,
the map keeps me in constant hunger for more ammunition,
I personally dont enjoy this playstyle i like having ammmo and shooting enemies carelessly. :)

The ending is pretty bad imo, There should be a clear exit sign so i know where the exit is.
Also the switch timing is really hard and should be abit easier.

overall great joB and i hope to see more of your maps!!! :)

[Koko Ricky]

I'm taking everyone's suggestions into consideration before I upload the next version. How do I search for specific things and linedefs in DoomBuilder 2 so I can adjust them? Also, in addition to removing the timer from the ending and changing the railway doors to staying open, I'm going to try to make it more clear that that marks the end of the map. Some kind of obvious use of the exit sign texture is in order, clearly.

Oh yeah, and I do plan to recreate a few more classic maps. I have version of E1M2, E1M3 and a very unfinished E1M4 in progress.

[Bauul]

GoatLord said:

How do I search for specific things and linedefs in DoomBuilder 2 so I can adjust them?

I'm not sure about DoomBuilder 2, but in GZDoom Builder just hit F3.

Really though, try GZDoom Builder. Don't be fooled by the name, it isn't just for GZDoom. It's basically DoomBuilder 2 with an extra half-a-dozen years development on it (and is still being actively developed now). It has so many extremely useful features that it'd be genuinely hard having to go back to DB2 now.

[Koko Ricky]

Update: Here's the newest version of the map. The link is also in the OP.

https://www.mediafire.com/?b3kt81rw59wnw4t

A few noteworthy changes:
- More ammo.
- All secret areas marked.
- Various fixes with stuck things.
- All non-accessible doors have been altered so they are distinguished from functional doors.
- Brand new starting area.
- Cosmetic adjustments.
- Exit is now clearly marked and easier to access.

[JohnnyTheWolf]

Okay, I started playing the new version and I have already stumbled a major issue: in the re-designed dead end with the Archvile, it is now possible to get stuck if you fall from the elevator into the pit where the Archvile is waiting. There just does not seem to be a way to get back up the way you came from.

Honestly, aside from the unopenable door, I did not mind the original corridor. The new layout makes fighting the Archvile far more frustrating.

[Koko Ricky]

I want that archvile area to work. I may have an old version of the map where it still has the old layout of that area, I might see if I can graft it onto the new one and replace what's there now...

[glenzinho]

Great music you've got going on there Lord of Goats! I didn't find much resemblance to E1M1, but it's a fine outing in its' own right. Certainly kicked my arse a bit, I've got an fda of me dying poorly 3 times, but you won't see this haha!

[Koko Ricky]

I'm going to implement difficulty settings, definitely. I'm trying to decide if I want less enemies and more ammo, just less enemies, or just less ammo...

And thanks about the music. I made it some time ago and just randomly threw it in the game, and was pleasantly surprised at how well it fit.

[Bauul]

GoatLord said:

I'm going to implement difficulty settings, definitely. I'm trying to decide if I want less enemies and more ammo, just less enemies, or just less ammo...

And thanks about the music. I made it some time ago and just randomly threw it in the game, and was pleasantly surprised at how well it fit.

Less enemies is the way to go. While "ammo conservation" is a valid gameplay style in some situations, generally shell-counting just isn't that enjoyable.

A simple but effective method for implementing difficulty settings is to ensure there's enough ammo for UV, and then start deselecting the lower difficulty settings for some enemies (although be conscious of enemies being a primary source of ammo if that's the case). A rule of third is simple enough: three enemies for UV, two for HMP and one for HNTR.

Yeah you *could* start worrying about removing the excess ammo on the lower difficulties, but frankly it probably isn't worth worrying about. Few people complained about having too many bullets and shells.

[Koko Ricky]

In terms of adjusting for different difficulties, what do you guys think about using weaker enemies that only appear on easier or medium, or even placing the keycard in a more obvious, easily accessible area?