The DWmegawad Club plays: THT: Threnody & No Rest for the Living

[Tristan]

MAP02: Rockage - Joe-ilya + Chris Hansen
Time: 03:29 (05:13) | Deaths: 0

Another very unthreatening map, but it's got a bit more substance to it than Eirene (01). The general pace has been upped a bit, and the difficulty is up a smidge, but it's also a nicer looking map than Eirene, with a much stronger sense of atmosphere. On my earlier playthroughs, the cave section confused me a bit as you're indicated where to go by the arrows drawn on the ceiling but then it sort of loops on itself and they don't actually show the way any longer, but now I know the map a bit better it's not a problem anymore, and hey, there's always the automap.

The start of this map seems to be the most frantic part, as this is really the only part of the map where you have to be thinking about monsters coming from different directions, save for the red key ambush, but as that consists of 2 imps + 2 chaingunners, it hardly counts.
The source material is Icarus MAP03, which I haven't actually played, so the tribute side of things is lost on me, but on its own this is a nice map. Not sure how much of that is actually down to Ilya, but the few maps I played of his in the last year or so were significantly better than his early works. Regardless, the association is unfortunately still with that 2013/14-era stuff from him, so ultimately, I wouldn't have guessed he had anything to do with this map. Good stuff. MIDI was quite cool too.

8/10

[joe-ilya]

rdwpa said:

map02: Rockage

those floating cube thingies, the key keep-away gag -- is very joe-ilya

I didn't do these, the key was up for grabs from the first sight in my version and there was just one satanic marble block floating around in the outdoor area because hell invades and marks their territory with those things I guess.

[Salt-Man Z]

MAP02: Rockage
9:52 | 100% Everything

As a Quarry homage, this is pretty cute. As its own thing, it's just okay. Lots of non-threatening trapped imps that would get released later were you to keep them alive for some reason, but I didn't, so they didn't. The only real surprises were the revenant (who didn't hit me, but I lost a lot of health to a lost soul during my panicked retreat) and the chaingunners at the red key trap. The red key progression was weird; I remember finding it in the back of the first cave, and it didn't occur to me that I hadn't picked it up until I saw it again from the other side. It could just be me brain being slow (I just got up.) Texturing was...interesting. The armor secret outside in particular stood out like a sore thumb. Not a bad level, really, and I did lose a bit more health than I care to admit.

[Steve D]

Map02 - Rockage by joe-ilya and Chris Hansen

Very cool map here, dripping with atmosphere and with a perfectly chosen midi. I really enjoyed all the wild angles, including knife edges! I probably played the inspiration map sometime back in the '90s, and thus don't remember a thing about it. ;D

What I liked was the dramatic use of light and shadow. I also liked the tricky bit where you're shown the red key and then it's closed away from you.

The gameplay wasn't super-hard but it was still engaging. The use of Chaingunners and Hell Knights definitely got my attention when I was relatively low on ammo. I also liked the way you got attacked from multiple angles and had to keep turning to meet new threats.

A nice job was done on the outdoor area as well, which is very nicely shaped.

Basically, I liked everything about this fun little map.

Well, except one thing. That armor bonus secret is one of those "Go through a fake wall and what the hell did I just grab?" things. C'mon, guys, pull the rear wall back so we can see what we're getting. Look at how nice the Blurshpere secret was staged, by way of comparison. BTW, I also liked how the Backpack secret was done, though it once again suggests a focus on continuous play. It was a sneaky one.

Threnody is off to a great start. And based on the screenshots in Gaspe's review, we are in for some serious visual treats in the maps ahead.

[rehelekretep]

map01 fda (also includes fda for map02)

pretty conventional map01, but pleasing to play. i liked the little dark room, tried humping some walls to check for secrets there. i also enjoyed the views from the green armour balcony and the view through the aperture you are looking at when you start the map. not too difficult but thats welcome after E3 of Alien Vendetta!

didnt really like the midi - felt like a metal track but never really got anywhere

map02

much better midi here. very atmospheric map. the secret wall was a bit ugly, and i never like walk-through walls as they feel very 'game-like' for want of a better word. i would agree with others that killing revenants and hks with chaingun/sg is not fun - more fun either with SSG or actually punching them, but that is personal preference. havent played Icarus so cant comment on any similarities.

[Suitepee]

https://www.twitch.tv/johnsuitepee/v/92670422 = part 2 of my THT: Threnody playthrough, covering maps 09-11 and the first half of map 12. (UV, pistol starts)

The overall quality remains high, and I wasn't disappointed in Mechadon's epic length map; if anything parts of it reminded me of his 50 Shades of Graytall contribution.

I liked map 11's Wormhole (another Ty map, which I'd forgotten!) gimmick tribute, even if it did have one too many Pain Elemental in it.

And then map 12 is literally some kind of Wormhole redux so far, with some tricky parts. Mancubi on a wacky conveyor belt, oh my!

Here's hoping the quality remains consistent throughout.....

[Steve D]

rehelekretep said:

i never like walk-through walls as they feel very 'game-like' for want of a better word.

You make a very good point. Fake walls break that sense of immersion because you can't walk through walls in real life. I suppose one can say, "Yes, you could, if they were convincing hologram projections," but it does seem like a Doom trope that's getting harder to justify over time.

[Memfis]

03 - FDA. Very pleasant design, you could call this "Whispers of Satan Lite". Many texture combinations that make me happy, especially when green and yellow colors are used. Monster placement is often dull, but the way everything is connected makes up for it. Seems like a great level for secret hunters too. And good music this time!

[Salt-Man Z]

MAP03: Chemical Facility
29:13 | 100% Everything

Woo! This one was a blast. I actually started pretty low on health (30-ish% I think?) so it was a bit of adventure for the first, well, quite a ways. What a fun base level; lots of interconnectedness, increasing as the level goes on. And those views outside were fantastic. Lots of fun secrets to hunt, too.

[Lingyan203]

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgS1ZoidySwPRCGp1KArOM7iNKqAc6wri

Here's my playthrough of THT: Threnody! I just uploaded the first 2 levels!

[Cynical]

SteveD said:

You make a very good point. Fake walls break that sense of immersion because you can't walk through walls in real life. I suppose one can say, "Yes, you could, if they were convincing hologram projections," but it does seem like a Doom trope that's getting harder to justify over time.

Sometimes "unrealism" is what you need to complete an illusion.

Those fake walls in "The Spirit World" are a great example. You're in a weird, unworldly, hellish place called "the SPIRIT world", and then monsters start phasing through some of the walls. It's great.

[Spectre01]

Map 03: Chemical Facility

A medium-sized map after 2 short ones with 3 keys but mostly linear progression. Quite a few secrets too, which I managed to find 5/9 of. Gameplay is relaxingly straightforward which suits the great midi and atmosphere of the map. Some great outdoor visuals too, especially this scene. Really feeling those tree sprites. Not sure if one of the secrets takes you outside but that would be nice. Kind of like in E1, where if you can see an outdoor area there's a way to get there. Disappointed by the lack of "pcorf Archvile" in the exit room.

[baja blast rd.]

Map 03: Chemical Facility

This map is quite a blast. The start is the most dangerous part by far, having to endure some RNG roulette to get into the blue key area quickly. You return here later, and most of the monsters either succumb to infighting or bunch up conveniently in the room adjacent to the blue key, so it's not worth sticking around. The most irritating part is that the imps and HKs can pin you in the detailing that borders the switch, which feels so weird. After that there is a rush to the SSG, and the fun commences.

In casual play, the player will get the SSG at a later point in the action comparatively, and I felt the early parts of the map were something of a drag that way. Probably the least fun part of the map is dealing with all the imps in the box cubbies -- too many, really, we would get the point with half as many. It might be better to use the SSG or chaingun, despite the shotgun being faster if all goes well.

The red key section is the highlight, a masterpiece of <3 incidental combat <3. It feels both expansive and intricate and is staffed with a very heterogeneous mix of opposition, many of which are placed thoughtfully, with an eye towards the "aesthetics of deployment", instead of spammed lazily. There are a decent amount of low-tier monsters scattered around more sloppily, too, much grist for the SSG mill. This part can be played quite rapidly and is a blast to run around in. It's easy to overlook how minor design elements like the exceptionally steep steps guarded by the hell knights add flavor to the experience and make a very basic fight feel different and novel. It's useful to save four rockets to deal with the high imps in the room before the exit area, and then it's one final rush of rocket and plasma to send the map out on a high note.

What stands out about this map is just how neatly a simple route that bypasses a lot of monsters kills everything (apart from those pesky imps!), despite the layout being a tangle of hallways in many places, which is normally not suited well to that. I don't think most mappers test their maps this way, either, so it was quite uncanny how monsters would bunch up in convenient places so often.

Also, the music started getting quite obnoxious after a few replays, particularly during the joyous upbeat party section. I had to use the -nomusic parameter.

[driftyloon]

Map 03: Chemical Facility

Kills: 100% Secrets: 100%

Finally starting to feel alive and also this map has a ton of secrets and enemies. A lot of imps, I not a fan of that bit lone imps are in the stacks of boxes as it breaks the flow of play if you gotta kill em’ all. The secrets give access to some more new toys and with ammo for both of them strewn across the level quite charitability it can make some of the otherwise more frantic moments of the level a tad easy. Otherwise a fun level filled me closets and quite a bit of toxic waste.

[pcorf]

rileymartin said:

Map 03: Chemical Facility

A medium-sized map after 2 short ones with 3 keys but mostly linear progression. Quite a few secrets too, which I managed to find 5/9 of. Gameplay is relaxingly straightforward which suits the great midi and atmosphere of the map. Some great outdoor visuals too, especially this scene. Really feeling those tree sprites. Not sure if one of the secrets takes you outside but that would be nice. Kind of like in E1, where if you can see an outdoor area there's a way to get there. Disappointed by the lack of "pcorf Archvile" in the exit room.

You cannot get to the outdoor areas .... sorry I am not Romero.

Linear maps were always easy to make even though I am trying my best to make a progression that overlaps does not require back tracking. Non linear maps the other way around = very difficult for me to create.

Sorry for not adding the Arch Vile to the exit, but this is only MAP03. Maybe you could summon one in using the Zdoom console hehe.

[pcorf]

Salt-Man Z said:

MAP03: Chemical Facility
29:13 | 100% Everything

Woo! This one was a blast. I actually started pretty low on health (30-ish% I think?) so it was a bit of adventure for the first, well, quite a ways. What a fun base level; lots of interconnectedness, increasing as the level goes on. And those views outside were fantastic. Lots of fun secrets to hunt, too.

Of course .... it's a great level isn't it! :D :D

Yes I love secrets ..... when I first started playing Doom when I was younger I spent ages hunting for secrets. Fun days firing up Doom on the SNES and searching everywhere for secrets!

[cannonball]

MAP03 - “Chemical Facility” by Paul Corfiatis

There was a rather large attrition factor to the first section of this map with resources in near enough everything in short supply, add to that a lot of hitscanners. This map actually gets easier the further you progress and for me the enjoyment of the level went with this trend. The increasing inter-connectivity of the map certainly adds to the enjoyment here as this limits backtracking and encourages exploration for the 9 secrets this map provides (I found 6). Overall a pleasant experience and after the initial push to the blue key, the map was fairly straightforward, especially if you grab the easy to spot blue armour secret.

[Demtor]

MAP 03 - Chemical Facility
gzDoom - UV - Pistol Start
This was a fun little map! Maps 1 & 2 I just kind of sneezed at, blinked my eyes and they were over. Chemical Facility brings a little more teeth to this WAD. Plenty of mixed hitscanner groups along with a little bit of running past pinkies/specters and imps looking for more ammo laying around. Which was always there, but you had to conserve at the beginning just a tad before you could breath easier towards the end. I felt like there was perfectly balanced progression between enemies and the ammo availability to deal with them. Managed to find the Rocket secret, which helped against the HK's but totally missed the plasma gun secret which would have been really fun.

I played pretty loose and fast with this map and had a blast but probably ran past quite a few secret. I tried not saving as much as possible and ended up paying for my mistakes health percentage wise pretty quick but again scrounging around for tiny health pick ups and the rare med pack provided just enough to get by. It felt great. Enjoyed the music too. Basic level design with a few neat tricks here and there but nothing fancy or cheap feeling. Just a good damned level.

[Tristan]

MAP03: Chemical Facility - Paul Corfiatis
Time: 13:40 (18:54) | Deaths: 0

200 monsters even on HMP leaves a first-time Threnody player expecting a pretty sudden ramp up in difficulty, but that's not the case. Chemical Facility is a far bigger map than the first two put together, and the monster count really stems only from this, not much in the way of large encounters and !!SETPIECES!! here, just nearly all !!INCIDENTAL COMBAT!! throughout. Much of this is also taking place directly in front of the player, with only a few bits here and there where you have to think about many directions, so this map is just as easy as the previous two, it's just also about four times longer as well. I will say though, that last fight may catch out blind players, I've definitely had some close calls there, though it might also have been on UV. Ultimately, while the gameplay is pretty simple all round, it's enough to keep me engaged, I like it.
9 secrets is definitely more than the average map offers nowadays, I got 5 of these, all of which I've found before on previous playthroughs, so no idea where those last 4 are, but I doubt they aren't any more difficult to find than the others, I just don't usually actively look for these all the time, especially when monsters are around.

Map looks pretty nice, the detailing is obviously present but very clean in its implementation, no pillars and whatnot getting in the way all the time, and of course TEKGRN or whatever it's called, which from what I've played of pcorf's maps is like his signature stock texture for techbases, however, the whole map is quite diverse with regards to texturing, with some sections being made of brick rather than conventional metal and spacebase textures. The outdoor sections also look very nice, I agree it's a bit of a shame that there's no way to get out to any of them, especially the one with the big archway, but it's no big problem. Great music too, and composed by pcorf himself, which I believe makes this the first MIDI made especially for the WAD.

8/10

[Memfis]

04 - demo (I played the map several months ago). Mixed feelings. It's nice to see the use of various amusing Boom features. The layout seems complicated, even to the point of being confusing (funnily enough, the use of fake 3D floors contributes to this feeling: having real stuff in Doom only makes it more surreal?). Many tight areas + high monster density + reliance on monsters teleporting or coming out of closets all the time: not my style. The midi annoyed me: I usually love midi mashups but this one sounded too nervous or something. Overall a hardworked level that combines many things I don't like much I guess. Not sure if this flat alignment was intentional: http://i.imgur.com/Sc5IPYM.png

[Scotty]

Neat choices this month, count me in. Played one of the THT betas up til Map 8 and had fun, i look forward to seeing what lies beyond. I'm a big fan of NRFTL as well so this is a good excuse to replay it.

Regarding THT, i am only really familiar with Ty Halderman's TNT work with regards to mapping, although MAP09 and MAP13 from TNT are two of the best in that pack in my view. I did play a bit of Icarus, but it was many many years ago now, perhaps in 2000/01 or thereabouts when i first got into Doom properly. Therefore i expect i'll miss some references/tributes here, sadly.

For THT i'll undertake a casual, continuous HMP playthough cause i don't know most of the maps; for NRFTL i'll go to UV.

One thing i like off the bat is the HUD of THT, looks sweet.

Better get caught up anyway:

MAP01 "Eirene" - Chris Hansen

A snappy enough opener, very short and linear so hard to find much to say - just run through and blast the bad guys away - although that isn't a dig against the map as classic style opening maps tend to be this way and this one was fun enough. I did like the yellow key courtyard. The HK at the end felt unnecessarily tanky for the map.

MAP02 "Rockage" - joe-ilya & Chris Hansen

The opening skirmish is fun with a variety of enemies being available for battle immediately. I also liked the red key 'trolling' as it provided a general direction goal to go and actually grab the key. The Imp cages were very odd though, almost pointless as the enemies can be blown away before they are a threat. I liked how the water area opened up and changed the dynamic of the area, it helped spice up an otherwise flat map in terms of geometry. The Lost Soul in the final room was... anticlimactic. The one thing i found odd in this level was the midi used - it seemed unnecessarily sombre and really did not match the atmosphere of the map itself.

MAP03 "Chemical Facility" - Paul Corfiatis

Managed 100% kills and secrets here (getting the automap secret was a great aid finding all of them). I really, really enjoyed this one. It felt like this map could have been straight out of Evilution episode 1 and that is a very good thing - a techbase overrun with lower tier gunners combined with a handful of stronger enemies in the right places is always good fun in my book. Nice map looping and traps too. My only gripe was the picking off off imps in the boxy area.

MAP04 "Manly Hatred" - Chris Hansen

100% kills, 6/7 secrets. Picks up where Map 3 left off with more fun low/mid tier combos and here the architecture provides some excellent variation with a secret backdoor to the main hub of the map - taking this route makes the initial main area fight different from the conventional approach, which i appreciate more on the second run through this level. Some Boom specific trickery on display here, which is nice to see although doesn't affect how the map plays outside of the initial approach to the main area. Really solid, fun map with some good exploration aspects present regarding the secrets. Odd midi again though, in my humble opinion. The two maps it referenced (ie TNT 16/20) weren't really the same style as this map.

_______________

So far it's exactly as i recalled from before - the mapset goes up the gears after a solid, if unremarkable beginning. Good stuff.

[Salt-Man Z]

MAP04: Manly Hatred
30:37 | 100% Kills | 98% Items | 85% Secrets

Another fun base; this one's a bit nastier than the previous map. Right off the bat I found the secret underground tunnel, so it took me a while to realize what the "normal" route might have been. Excellent use of silent teleporters to fake a 3-D space. Lots of the secrets here seemed to trigger big ambushes, which always strikes me as an odd design choice, but whatevs. I died a couple of times, mostly due to nasty surprise chaingunners. The revenant duo near the end caught me by surprise, but the vile (who kindly murdered the revvie he had just resurrected) thankfully did not. Dunno where that final secret/item was; I spent way too much time afterward searching for it as it was. Really fun level.

[Spectre01]

Map 04: Manly Hatred

This is another in the series of techbase levels, taking place in some kind of water processing plant. I was a bit confused after seeing the trees disappear at the start, but then I checked the automap and it was some silent teleport stuff, which happens several times during the map. Not sure if it's to create some room-over-room geometry or what. There's a good amount of height variation here and quite a few snipers in the main area with the deep, moving water. Neat effect with it slightly pushing you too. The Rocket Launcher trap was surprisingly nasty, considering the two Pain Elementals and a bit of everything else that comes with it. Aside from that, there were some cool secrets, like that early underground area, that added more depth to the map instead of being an item closet. Is the map title some kind of reference I'm unaware of?

[baja blast rd.]

Map 04: Manly Hatred

Lots of clever design here: the use of invisible teleporters (although the texture alignments do wiggle more than a little); and the cornucopia of routes on offering, many rooms or areas accessible in more than one way. Fun fact: the baron you meet in the last area warps to a different place depending on which entrance you use. If you know the map, you won't have to use the slow lifts in the tunnel more than once (not counting the one automatically lowered by the secret), but it might slightly be confusing otherwise.

The action is mostly enjoyable, although I wasn't such a fan of picking off the various ledge snipers in the deep water while fighting the current, or of moving through the current at all for that matter. Highlights include the trap set off by shooting barrels. In my video, two chaingunners warped in so quickly that they were immediately destroyed by the barrels! I also like how you can race across the lowering floor at the end and take on the archvile at the same time as the revenants, lost souls, and spectres. The map's secrets aren't quite necessary for this, but they feel a lot more relevant as insurance for it. I would have liked to be able to blow up the barrels scrolling past next to some imps later on. The window is cute, but I like shooting barrels. :) All in all, a decent short map.

[Demtor]

MAP 04 - Manly Hatred
gzDoom - UV - Pistol Start

Don't have too much else to add here but I did find it funny how quickly I was torn to shreds going through the "front way" thanks to some very quite teleporting and a lot of gunners on ledges to pick at me while I attempted to swim around Caco's while dodging imp fireballs. I started over and found the secret that led to the "back way" which eventually gave me a pretty cool "ah HAH!" moment when I came out on my own ledge looking over where I had failed the first time. Thumbs up.

[Salt-Man Z]

rdwpa said:

Fun fact: the baron you meet in the last area warps to a different place depending on which entrance you use.

Hunh! I had wondered about that. My second time attempting that inner area, I was ready for the baron to show up, but he never did; I step outside and boom! there he is! I wasn't sure what was going on. :D

rdwpa said:

I wasn't such a fan of picking off the various ledge snipers in the deep water while fighting the current, or of moving through the current at all for that matter.

Yeah, my only real complaint about the map. Not even the sniping bothered me so much as clambering up and down to get (I think) some health bonuses. The deep water was fine, but the current added some rather unnecessary fiddliness.

[Tristan]

MAP04: Manly Hatred - Chris Hansen
Time: 12:51 (31:46) | Deaths: 0

Well if my previous plays of this map are anything to go by, there's apparently not much to really stick in the memory in this map. I recognised a few areas but for a lot of this I may as well have been playing blind. Not really a good sign because it can't have been long since I last played. I got a bit lost this time which kind of marred the experience, but really it's not a very big map so at least if you do get lost you don't have to look very far. Something feels off about the gameplay though and I can't quite lay my finger on it, but my best guess is maybe a lack of medikits paired with some chaingunner snipers here and there that can be difficult to spot. For most of say, the middle two quarters of this map, it felt like whenever I found health somewhere it was usually a stimpack or something and it would immediately be lost to some group of monsters guarding it. Had to completely cheese a couple of fights by camping around a corner with a chaingun, which was a bit boring.

What I did like though was the secret in a secret kind of thing that's going on. I think I found 5 of 7, and they were the first times I'd seen any of them. The cave area is nice in itself, and it's kind of cool how there's that other secret up on the ledge in there. A nice touch with the ambient whirring of the generator in the corner too. Then there was the plasma gun secret, which is the third in another series of secret areas, though the first one of these was one of the aforementioned fights I had to camp. TWO revenants in that tiny cave? Boo.

The map does well on the visual front, not as clean in detailing as MAP03 but not cluttered enough to get in the way or detract from the actual visual quality, and as others have mentioned, lots of cool tricks and effects going on here, such a deep water segment, the conveyor belt of barrels, and that generator. Hopefully actually having written about this stuff, the map should stick in my memory a bit better, because now it doesn't seem like there's anything forgettable about the map's visual side, which is what I tend to remember better.

Ultimately though, I do feel like the gameplay does let this map down a bit, and as it's only the second medium-sized map in the set, it can only be compared to MAP03 thus far, and I definitely preferred MAP03 to this. Same could be said of this MIDI and MAP03's too, funnily enough, though I'm somehow only just noticing this one's a mashup of the MIDIs from TNT MAP10 and 17, heh. An OK map, but I don't think I'd list it in my top 10 of the set, let alone top 5. Only one more map left to play from the project leader. A very respected mapper, but I don't know any of his other works, and after MAP01 also felt ever so slightly off as well, it would be a bit of a shame for me personally if I wasn't massively keen on MAP16 either.

6/10

[rehelekretep]

map03 - fda for both maps here

great midi! i have a soft spot for low pressure map beginnings so spent some time mooching around trying to get the imps/pinkies to infight :)
agree with posters above - no map is improved by restricting the SSG ;p

the steps with the large windows definitely give the impression you can go outside; perhaps reducing the height of the steps/raising the window sill level would help with that expectation

map04

another great midi.
good map where the difficulty is in the architecture/firing lanes, rather than the amount of enemies. really taxed my spacial awareness.

i loved the revenant/lost souls trap; i spent what felt like a minute planning my point of attack, and then shit myself when one of the revenants teleported to block my exit! marvellous :D luckily the lost souls acted as missle-shields which worked out quite nicely

great map!

[cannonball]

MAP04 - “Manly Hatred” by Chris Hansen
An interesting base/caverns thee going on here with multiple inter-connected paths to go with this, some of which were secret. There was quite a bit of boom trickery going on as well. Overall this wasn't a hard map and it didn't outstay its welcome. So overall a decent effort again from Hansen. The music I was not so sure about to be honest.

[Memfis]

05 - FDA. Level looks very pleasant in 320x200, I especially like the use of gray bricks. The "shooting gallery" style monster placement sometimes works as simple fun, other times looks stupid and allows provoking infightings way too easily. Liked the music choice. Secrets seemed super easy, which is OK.

The custom teleportation sound has an interesting unintended (?) effect. The original sound is loud: it serves as a quick alert. The new one I don't even always hear, so some ambushes surprise me more than probably planned.