Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Spectre01

Bad maps in good wads

Recommended Posts

I've been replaying some Scythe and was extremely tempted to idclev past 28. It can be a very annoying map when you pistol start with only 100HP and end up losing a bunch more to the Chaingunners or get RNG blocked by the Pinkies and whatnot. Plus having to run the thing sideways due to forced straferunning makes it even worse. So, what are some stinkers in wads you like that you tend to idclev past?

Share this post


Link to post

The (third?) map in Bauhaus was an asshole that I had to noclip to the exit in. I couldn't find the final key no matter how hard I looked.

Share this post


Link to post

From 1 Monster Megawad (really cool wad):
Map 20(?): Cacophony and map 17(?): Zumma. Both of those maps are incredibly long, boring and difficult. All other maps in this wad are ok, though (well, i also kind of dislike map 4: Imptech Rampage as it can get quite boring too, but it's not that bad).

Share this post


Link to post
Marcaek said:

Anomaly Zone in Epic 2. Holy moly what a pile of steaming ass.



not the most "ammunitiony" level either

Share this post


Link to post

Useless Inventions in Back to Saturn X episode II. Compared to the other maps in the set, the map is a letdown. I was surprised to find out that it was made by the same mapper who made The Theory of Broken Circles and Metal Mothers.

Share this post


Link to post

I'll add Map31 of Scythe 2 as well. Tiny map with annoying Plasma Marine enemies and a timed secret exit that makes it impossible to properly max as well as legitimately enter Map32.

Share this post


Link to post
rileymartin said:

I've been replaying some Scythe and was extremely tempted to idclev past 28. It can be a very annoying map when you pistol start with only 100HP and end up losing a bunch more to the Chaingunners or get RNG blocked by the Pinkies and whatnot. Plus having to run the thing sideways due to forced straferunning makes it even worse. So, what are some stinkers in wads you like that you tend to idclev past?


Playing Scythe in these days and I skipped map 28 on UV, I've completed it in skill 3 which is very easy compared.
I play with gamepad which is somehow similiar to the keyboard I don't even think if it's possible to complete that map with gamepad unless there are some specifics strategies to use like wallrunning & sr50 (with GZdoom I dunno how to set sr50).
I don't even bother to try to complete it to be honest it's a kind of concept map which I'm not interested.
Map 31 of Scythe 2 have a timed secret for reach map 32 ? The plasma marine is absurdly difficult to beat alone and he put a timed secret exit lol, I wonder what the fuck passed in the Erik Alm head.

Share this post


Link to post

The most recent example I remember was that idiotic cyberspace secret map in Valiant. Compared to the rest of the mod this was an annoying steaming pile of shit.

Not only visually unappealing but on top of that it featured a style of gameplay I utterly hate.

Fortunately I still had a savegame of the end of the previous map so I edited the MAPINFO and redirected its secret exit directly to MAP32 once I realized I never make it through that map 'legally'.

Share this post


Link to post

MAP25: Demonic Hordes

Alien Vendetta

The most boring map design I've ever seen & just cluttered with over 1k enemies became even more of a borefest to go through.

Share this post


Link to post

Alien Vendetta, MAP20.
It's too long, confusing and even after playing it a thousand times I still have trouble navigating it. This is the map that usually kills any coop server in multiplayer ports like ZDaemon and Zandronum, because most people get bored, lost and frustrated.

Share this post


Link to post

E4M2 in Thy Flesh Consumed, Catwalk in the Master Levels, The Chasm in Doom 2....probably a few others, as well.

HorrorMovieGuy said:

Alien Vendetta, MAP20.
It's too long, confusing and even after playing it a thousand times I still have trouble navigating it. This is the map that usually kills any coop server in multiplayer ports like ZDaemon and Zandronum, because most people get bored, lost and frustrated.


Strangely enough, I love watching people speedrun/play that level.

Share this post


Link to post
Chewyninja69 said:

E4M2 in Thy Flesh Consumed.



I don't think it's really bad, if you fix E4M1 to be able to leave with decent health and armor it's actually a very good map. What kills it is the insanity in E4M1.

HorrorMovieGuy said:

Alien Vendetta, MAP20.
It's too long, confusing and even after playing it a thousand times I still have trouble navigating it. This is the map that usually kills any coop server in multiplayer ports like ZDaemon and Zandronum, because most people get bored, lost and frustrated.



Fully understandable. To me this always has been the epitome of a bad 'good' level, i.e. nothing about its overall design says 'shit' and yet it plays so atrociously that it kills all the fun. Ultimately it's just a huge maze filled with monsters, one cramped convoluted section after another. The only thing that makes it stand out is its size - which is also the major reason to declare it 'bad'.
For me this wore down long, long before I reached the exit.

Share this post


Link to post
HorrorMovieGuy said:

Alien Vendetta, MAP20.
It's too long, confusing and even after playing it a thousand times I still have trouble navigating it. This is the map that usually kills any coop server in multiplayer ports like ZDaemon and Zandronum, because most people get bored, lost and frustrated.

The premise is awesome: a huge maze with no clear rules set up, and with lots of traps. What ruins it for me is that it just uses stock Doom 2 monsters. Egypt tomb maps should be scary, but that's impossible when the usual enemies are still chaingunners, revenants, hell knights and archviles.

A map I hated was Hell Revealed MAP26: Afterlife. Too many heavy monsters in cramped areas and too much gimmickry about surreal space, without having an interesting architecture to go with it.

Share this post


Link to post

Pretty much any symmetrical slaugther level or major area of the level with identical monster placement and traps on each side of the symmetry.

Kama Sutra Map28.. argh! It's not just 2 times the same, but 4! Also damage slime everywhere! There were some other symmetrical levels in the set too, I guess they ran out of ideas toward the end or something.

The end of AV Map18 was a bit on the bad side of symmetry.

Yea, AV Map20 a bit too long, but at least it was interesting to look at. Half the size would have been just fine. I'm ok with goofy monsters in egyptian tombs. What else could there be...

On my first play on AV Map25, it felt like it was too long.. but on my second play, only the last cave felt unnecessary. It should have been the exit after the red key. Also that last cyberdemon that teleports when the exit is lowered.

The crate jumping to get the blue key in Darkening 2 Map12. Relying in glitchy behaviour to progress in a level just isn't very fun. Especially when none of the previous levels in the set needed that. Better save that kind of moves for reaching secret areas.

Share this post


Link to post

One Flew over the Cacos Nest in AV was a big disappointment for me.. especially after Misri Halek.

Share this post


Link to post
Jimi said:

Pretty much any symmetrical slaugther level or major area of the level with identical monster placement and traps on each side of the symmetry.

Kama Sutra Map28.. argh! It's not just 2 times the same, but 4! Also damage slime everywhere! There were some other symmetrical levels in the set too, I guess they ran out of ideas toward the end or something.

The end of AV Map18 was a bit on the bad side of symmetry.

Yea, AV Map20 a bit too long, but at least it was interesting to look at. Half the size would have been just fine. I'm ok with goofy monsters in egyptian tombs. What else could there be...

On my first play on AV Map25, it felt like it was too long.. but on my second play, only the last cave felt unnecessary. It should have been the exit after the red key. Also that last cyberdemon that teleports when the exit is lowered.

The crate jumping to get the blue key in Darkening 2 Map12. Relying in glitchy behaviour to progress in a level just isn't very fun. Especially when none of the previous levels in the set needed that. Better save that kind of moves for reaching secret areas.


I like slaughter maps in general but I almost always dislike the symmetrical ones in ugly abstracty environments, particularly when all the monsters are in homogeneous mostly immobile blocks on ledges or in pits.

Share this post


Link to post

I agree about the Scythe duology. Map28 is my least favourite due to the fact that you are required to straferun in order to beat the level before you get killed by the voodoo doll being crushed, and I'm not good at straferunning. The imps and lost souls tend to cause more trouble than the chaingunners and demons in that map, but altogether they really hamper your progress. ITYTD and HNTR were tough enough, HMP puts the pressure on you big, and UV is just fricking impossible. Scythe 2, I couldn't get to Map32 at all because of those annoying evil marines that run around everywhere and slow you down.

Speaking of straferunning, Map30 of Alien Vendetta is a terrible map. Ignoring the fact that it's another Icon of Sin rehash, trying to get the lowest elevator is a pain in the ass. I managed to beat it without using the noclip not too long ago, but that was by dumb luck as I managed to get two rockets into Baphomet's weak spot and waste Romero's head without having to go all the way up.

Another bad map in a good wad has to be Map11 of Plutonia. Hunted is complete bullshit. The arch-vile maze is bad enough, but crossing random lines that trigger random doors to open is just not fun at all. PL2 and PRCP's take on the arch-vile maze concept were done a thousand times better. Dario Casali may have been one of the best Doom mappers back in the day, but I have no idea what he was thinking when he made Hunted.

Share this post


Link to post

^ I personally really like Hunted. The vile maze and the line-crossing-to-open-doors just works for me to create a tense+enjoyable experience.

Off the top of my head I actually can't think of any standout "bad" maps in wads I like. I dunno, recently I've been liking more and more things, or at the very least becoming indifferent towards them. Then again, there's also quite a few sets I haven't played much of (e.g. AV).

Share this post


Link to post

Haha, I'm actually a big fan of Hunted. It certainly stands out either way. For map 28 in Scythe, the Imps and Lost Souls can be killed from the starting area so they don't bother you during the speedrun. The voodoo timer only starts when you step on the stairs. But in general, really tight mandatory straferunning/platforming for progression is crap. Fine for optional secrets but not to finish the map.

rdwpa said:

I like slaughter maps in general but I almost always dislike the symmetrical ones in ugly abstracty environments, particularly when all the monsters are in homogeneous mostly immobile blocks on ledges or in pits.


brb, redoing my map for DWMP2016. :P

Share this post


Link to post
AD_79 said:

^ I personally really like Hunted. The vile maze and the line-crossing-to-open-doors just works for me to create a tense+enjoyable experience.

Hunted can be improved in two ways: (1) replace all doors with lower-wait-raise platforms, which will allow monsters to activate them, and (2) add demons, because they make very good archvile companions.

Share this post


Link to post

2002ado E3M3 (really tight ammo), TNT MAP09 (should it really have that many hitscanners?), 12 (very big and very empty for some reason), 18 (empty too), 20 and 21, 22 (was it even tested?), 25 (why does it even have that coop skip?), 31 because of yellow key bug.

Share this post


Link to post
AD_79 said:

^ I personally really like Hunted. The vile maze and the line-crossing-to-open-doors just works for me to create a tense+enjoyable experience.


Exactly, it beats pl2 map 11 in this aspect, imo, which is also a great map too in a different way, but I agree Hunted rules

Share this post


Link to post

Sometimes I just noclip The Hunted maze to the BFG and then exit it... Don't care much for PL2 maze either, sure it looks more interesting.

Yea, and Icon of Sin maps. If playing with mouselook, the "puzzle" can probably be skipped.. and if not, it's probably just annoying. I'd rather just play a regular level with Cyberdemons and Spidermasterminds and whatever other (tough) monsters.

Share this post


Link to post

i played through NOVA: The Birth recently and while i generally enjoyed it (though the more slaughter stuff is usually not my thing), i grew to hate Map 13 ("Warehouse District") while playing it. there are so many extremely questionable design decisions about the progression of the map that just make it longer and more irritating without actually doing anything interesting. i wasn't a fan of Map 15 ("The Prisoner") either - it's certainly a competent map, but i didn't feel like it did much of anything with the prison concept and the combat was generally kind of tedious and uninteresting compared to most of the later combat-heavy levels. i thought it might be just a negative bias towards cannonball's levels, but i actually found Map 18 ("Power Core") quite fun.

ALT is my favorite Doom wad, but there's nothing interesting about Map 17 ("Reaction of Pain"). it feels like it's from a completely different set. the next map by the same author is much better, though. also Map 12 ("Pre Paterna"), while i like some of the architecture a lot, is filled with bullshit encounters. Sacrament is a favorite wad too, but even though i like the setting of it, Map 04 ("Phobia") is pretty weak.

people have said it before, but Map 21 of Alien Vendetta ("One Flew Over the Caco's Nest") is kind of pointless and out of place in the set. it looks pretty, and that's about it. i'm kind of surprised to see Map 20 get mentioned though. even if i think it's overrated, there's still a lot to admire about it.

as far as original Doom 1/Doom 2 goes: though i've come to appreciate it more over time, i still think E1M9 is pretty weak. it's apparent that it was more designed for multiplayer in mind. while it might play better than some of Sandy's lesser maps, it's also a lot less interesting. also there's nothing particularly wrong with E4M7 (there's cool ideas in it), but coming where it does it makes no sense and just feels totally out of place. it makes sense that it came from a PWAD.

Doom 2: Bloodfalls (Map 25) is also weak. you can tell it's someone's first map.

Share this post


Link to post

I really liked the speedrunning map (map28) in Scythe, it should probably have been the final level though since it's super hard, but also because map30 is probably the worst doom level I have ever forced my way through (big hater of slaughter maps here.)

Share this post


Link to post
38_ViTa_38 said:

2002ado E3M3 (really tight ammo), TNT MAP09 (should it really have that many hitscanners?), 12 (very big and very empty for some reason), 18 (empty too), 20 and 21, 22 (was it even tested?), 25 (why does it even have that coop skip?), 31 because of yellow key bug.

Yes E3M3 of 2002ado is the one that bugs me most, the worst thing being that despite a revamp by PCorf of other levels, the problems in this map were never fixed for reasons unknown, to be honest just removing the caco ambush at the end (80 cacodemons out of a deep well is never a good idea) would have fixed this map enough (Even with that questionable cyber).

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×