Will Deep ever be freeware?

[deep]

lament said:

You seem to imply that without money, you will have no motivation. Sorry if I misunderstood you.

Don't ASSUME Lament. It says nothing of the sort. Nor does it imply that at all.

When a person states some facet of what they like, you can't infer some other totally unrelated subject. Period. Very poor reasoning involved with those that do that.

That's the trouble with these arguments. You (and the others) fill in the blanks with imaginary "facts".

Just about everyone is motivated making money. And it's pretty damn obvious that by your way of reasoning, nobody can be trusted. Big sigh.

[Mordeth]

And a quick note to everyone: please stop with the yelling and pointless flames. You are not going to convince the other party, so you might as well put a lid on it before this thread degenerates further.

[deep]

lament said:

I seriously doubt that. Cube is free. Aardappel doesn't open-source it, because it's his project and his hobby, but he doesn't make money off it, either. He writes Cube for fun.

Jesus Christ.

He POSTED what I said about open source. He doesn't open source it because he AGREES with my philosophy.

It has NOTHING to do with making money. Go email him and find out for yourself.

Logic is not your strong suite. You consistently mix up parts of subjects and attempt to connect them.

[deep]

Mordeth said:

And a quick note to everyone: please stop with the yelling and pointless flames. You are not going to convince the other party, so you might as well put a lid on it before this threads degenerates further.

Hehe. Relax. Just because people disagree is no reason to "put a lid on it".

I am trying to convince some posters that the stuff they write is imaginary - I never said the things they claim. And that should be obvious too.

[mmnpsrsoskl]

You know what? After all this fighting and bitching and stuff, I might actually get DeePsea and see what everyone is crapping/praising about. :|

[fen boi]

I could understand peoples complaints about the price if Deepsea was the only editor, but there are plenty of options out there. It's not like Deep is out buying ferrari's from upgrade fees.

[mmnpsrsoskl]

fen boi said:

It's not like Deep is out buying ferrari's from upgrade fees.

No he's buy only one :P

[Espi]

I might buy deepsea if the author wasn't such a jackass.

[Captain Red]

Order deepsea now and recive our free Book:
WHY EVERYBODY ELSE IS STUPID
The deepteam story.

[Kid Airbag]

deep said:

You need a new title. I don't mind some lack of understanding, but you've just taken it to a new high:)) Hopeless archie.

It's funny how every time I make a well-thought out post you never reply to the material in the post, but rather just call me hopeless and say I've taken lack of understanding to a new high.

Why don't you rebutt the totally logical things I say with things equally as logical?

Btw, I work for my own company - IOW, I work for ME. Slaps forehead.

Is selling Deep your only source of income? If you didn't sell it, would you be able to live comfortably? Just wondering.

Oh, and as for the new title, "More intelligent than Deep" would work pretty well.

[Kid Airbag]

deep said:

I dislike dishonest poster who can't stand being wrong.

How can you stand yourself then?

Btw, how can making 50 cents/hr be money motivation? (And don't try to change it somehow to "programming" only - that won't stick either.)

If it's that little, then why do you feel the need to market it? It seems you'd be just as well off making Deep freeware.

Finally, if making money is such a convincing argument (as a lot of you seem to think). Everyone here knows of course that the Doom Community is making money for someone else just by coming here right? Newdoom and Doomcenter also make money for someone else. Never mind that you know how to bypass the banners. The point is that these sites exist purely because somebody wants to make money from your visits. Evil evil system we live in.

Outside of the ISP costs, we don't pay for actually accessing NewDoom or Doomworld, etc.

But that's not even the point. Within the Doom community, the vast majority of things are free. Using an analogy comparing our visits to websites isn't very logical.

Out of curiosity, how many of you get free internet access?

I do.

When you get learn some honest reasoning and stay away from lame flames, let me know Lament.

I don't see how you could possibly confuse logical arguing with lame flames.

Otherwise my suggestion is to keep it to yourself unless you want me to show you exactly how the stuff you post is junk. And we all know what happens when I do that - hehehe.

So why don't you? If you're so intelligent, why don't you explain how each and every one of us is wrong instead of replying to everything we say with "Wow, you're hopelessly wrong."

[fraggle]

Archvile64 said:

It's funny how every time I make a well-thought out post you never reply to the material in the post, but rather just call me hopeless and say I've taken lack of understanding to a new high.

Why don't you rebutt the totally logical things I say with things equally as logical?

Because he is a troll. Jeez.

From the previous flamewar:

I dont care about the paying thing. When I say I enjoy toying with
the replies, that's exactly what I mean. It's fun to twist their
words back at them and show them how contradictory it all becomes.
Yup, I'm just one SOB. Besides, I'm way too old to change now.
Don't tell.

(this was in an email to AndrewB).

Its quite obvious hes doing the same thing here. Just read some of the posts.

[deep]

fraggle said:

Because he is a troll. Jeez.

Let's summarize this whole thread like this:

1. Some of you carrry a big grudge. It's not a discussion, it's a way to "get me". (which unfortunately won't work, since I do enjoy a nice stroll now and again. That's not to say I troll. Who the hell started this thread? Who asked the questions? Hey, all I do I respond to isses directed at ME.

2. Redefining the meaning of words to something else (see troll).

3. A lot of the "free" stuff is junk, except nobody dares to say so and most don't know the code.

4. Taking stuff out of context is a favorite pastime.

5. Concluding OTHER things erroneously from those contexts is not only stupid, it's just logically flawed.

6.. Some of you are not the brigthest lights in the world. A blowtorch couldn't enlighten you.

7. The kettle calling the pot black syndrome. To the dimmer lights: that means we all post because we enjoy posting. To use that as an argument against me is obviously against yourself. Pretty dumb concept.

Its quite obvious hes doing the same thing here. Just read some of the posts.

LOL. And what are you doing little troll. I'm not trolling. My responses were always directed at a question. OTOH, you (and others) pop in doing exactly that. Hell you even tried to close it because I wasn't getting slammed.

You get a score of 6 out of 6. Yaaay

[SyntherAugustus]

god dammit. all this thread is nothing but a dumb and pointless flamewar going nowhere.
personally, deepsea is the best editor (and best working editor) which is why im going to buy it. god. You know, i just figured that flamewars = spam and excess posts. whatever. let's just GET ALONG.

[boris]

It's not really a flameware. I closed this thread earlier, but thanks to NiGHTMARE (I guess his thread in R&R was the reason) Ling reopened it.

[SyntherAugustus]

i didnt mind actually. i had to ask deep a few questions. but please, some throwing things at eachother.

[myk]

Well, trolls are common in forums, but "multi-classed" troll/spammers are less usual, particularly the ones that send hate mail as "FixYou" when they get all pissy.

[fraggle]

deep said:

6.. Some of you are not the brigthest lights in the world. A blowtorch couldn't enlighten you. [translation: "you are dumb"]

No you are.

I could easily construct a more logical or mature argument but you arent worth my time.

[Clardvaark]

god, when I grow up I'm gonna be just like deep

[Volte]

You can't post direct insults at other people ("You are dumb") and
expect people not to set slightly peeved. Taking things out of
context doesn't make you dumb, nor does misreading or misunderstanding
a post. Nope, not even (*gasp*) having your own opinions and ideas as
to what you like and don't like.

This is what this argument looks like to me:

--
Person 1: I believe something different than you.
Person 2: THAT'S WRONG! YOU'RE STUPID!
..
Person 1: Oh I thought your post said "this", not "that".
Person 2: YOU ARE DUMB.
--
Over and over and over and over...

The posts being made here are, intentionally or not, flame-bait, and it
has the potential to degrade into a really lame flamewar.

[kristus]

You are indeed being "anal". It does not work the way you ASSUME. First of all, you CAN NOT get an invalid texture by just
typing a few characters (as you can in DETH).

First. I didn't say it was idiot proof. second, Thank god it isn't. I've used this what you call, weakness several times to change a few textures on the fly w/o loading the resource wad(s). Now you're probaly gonna reply with something like. You can have projects in deepsea just like in QER (QuakE Radiant). So it'll be like pooring water on a goose.

Secondly, the way it can default for MISSING textures is a godsend when fixing a level.

Like what, you mean "Missing lower texture on sidedef 101." If you actually knew deth as good as you claim, you should know that it have that too. Like probaly every other damn editor in the world.

But please DON'T LOOK you'll actually find out you are wrong. BTW, I didn't list that anyway - I was just explaining how it works, seeing how you are a DETH man. Rather than just looking to piss, see if you can learn something new - god forbid, you aren't over 25 are you?

I don't have time to learn how to use Deepsea just because you want me to. I don't have any intrest in doing so, mostly cause I am satisfied with Deth, secondly cause I DON'T EDIT DOOM MAPS ANY MORE
Hope that was clear enough for you. Look you even learned something new.

Really? What other program can take a 2k x 2k BMP and make it into a single lump preserving the size?

I'm quite sure Lumpy can do that. Never had a reason to try, never will. XWE wouldn't suprice me if it did either. I wouldn't cross my heart and hope to die on any of them though.Highest I've gone with lumpy is 256x256 BTW, wth would you use a 2k x 2k bmp in doom for anyway? Too lazy to do detail?

Who invented it? There is no other editor with integrated FS editing, export and saving that WORKS. There is a quick utility. Never said otherwise, you brought it up.

Well. I can edit FS lumps with edit, notpad and any other text editor. and then I can add it with Wintex or AddFs or lvlinfo. and if I wanna get it out I can just load the damn wad with edit notepad or any other text edit program. Yeah so it leaves the file. so what, it leaves everytime I nodebuild with bsp anyway. and the "lh doskey" command in dos is very handy feature.

This is just what I mean. You don't have any features that CAN NOT BE ACHEIVED any other way w/o deepsea. So it can be done in one damn editor, yay big ass advantage. That's your only real advantage IMO.

Rather than being determined to prove me wrong and just ignoring facts, the intelligent thing to do is actually TRY IT rather than GUESS

I wasn't determined to prove you wrong. I was just intrested to see what these features you were bragging about was. Then I was gonna leave it alone. I wasn't the least intrested in arguing with you again since it never leads anywhere. The Anal and texture selection remark was mostly as a cheek in tounge remark. But you had to go and get defensive and lash out on me. Wich get's me going unfortunately.

Sad to say, but you couldn't produce any real advantages. Just llame excuses, and when I said it was in Deth too. YOU got anal and started pointing out what was wrong and so on. The fact that you not once backed up your claims with more than. "-You're to lazy/inbread/whatever else word for being retarded and afraid to learn, to find out for yourself."

For example, ("anal" is not something to brag about - your words) what utility checks all your textures, see if they have "holes", that all the patches exist, that all the patches are valid and also what patches aren't used. There's more where that came from.

IMO being anal is an important quality of being a designer. But maybe that's just me. I know you're not the least anal, judging from your maps. Although you seem to be very anal when you're pointing out all the flaws in other products.

Doom itself checks the patches actually. and Wintex is nice enough to let you see the texture as you make it. and if youre not a complete asshat you will see for yourself that the texture is right.and if you are a complete asshat, even you would notice it when you run the level and get a nice fat tuttifrutti effect.

Am I right or are you? Can DeePsea do things that no other utility can do? Do I get a prize or a kick in the ass? LOL

Yes you are right. Deepsea got a slew of features noone really needs. But it still don't justify your claim that you could make stuff with deepsea for doom that you couldn't acheive in other editors. Atleast that's what your claim made it sound, weather or not that was the intention was what I tried to find out from the beginning. Thanks fro your nice a friendly answer. I will always consider you one of the most respectable persons and superior to most at PR.

Fraggle said: you arent worth my time.

Pity I keep forgetting that.

[Mordeth]

I might buy deepsea if the author wasn't such a jackass.
...
Oh, and as for the new title, "More intelligent than Deep" would work pretty well.
...
Some of you are not the brigthest lights in the world. A blowtorch couldn't enlighten you.

Maybe we weren't clear enough on this. This sort of namecalling IS going to stop NOW, or you WILL end up arguing with me over email on why you should be allowed back on the forums. I don't mind a heated discussion, but no more flaming in this thread.

Thank you.

[Mordeth]

Thread reopened. I trust everyone behaves now.

[Sharessa]

...

[Lost Soul]

Wow. this has been the most amazing thing I have seen in awhile. I have personally, used and still use DeePsea Registered. But that's because a lot of things just won't work on my OS, or I lose patience with them. I'd try WA, but the way I see it is, I've already spent my money on something I know, ang to very used to using, and I'm a college student. So I don;t have that big a budget to work with.

[Fletcher`]

The only reason I stay and read on is that one day, someone will provide an answer that does not end up as an insult, assumption, brag, or plain out flamewar. Everyone IS entitled to their own opinion, BUT within respectable terms.

My opinion is that unfortuantely, I do not have the money to pay for DeePSea, nor would I want to, since I have the shareware version of DCK 3.62- and it suits me just fine. I am not bitching and moaning that "DeePSea should be free cuz it should" it is simply an individual opinion that is NOT meant to insult you, or anyone else for that matter. Now considering this coming from a 16 year old teenager still growing up, it sounds a bit more mature than what i have heard here (IMO)

Thank you for listening to me, and lets hope to act a bit more mature in the future, eh?

[Cadman]

Well, this thread has been very interesting to say the least. I personally use Deepsea, but I've also used Doomcad, DETH and ZETH as well in my "illustrious" career as a level designer...heh! I'm just conforatable with it, that's all. Everything I ever want to do is included in one package, that's enough for me. I'm sure all the other editors and utilities are good as well but it's just a matter of personal preference.


Cadman - Member TeamTNT

[mmnpsrsoskl]

Cadman said:

it's just a matter of personal preference.

EXACTLY!

NOW EVERYONE STOP YER BITCHING

[zark]

mmnpsrsoskl said:

EXACTLY!

NOW EVERYONE STOP YER BITCHING

YES.

It doesn't matter how long this argument goes on, it's still not going to change the fact that SOME PEOPLE LIKE ONE EDITOR, OTHER PEOPLE LIKE ANOTHER, ETC ETC.

So one editor might have lots of fancy features all built into one program, but someone might prefer to use another editor BECAUSE IT FEELS RIGHT TO THEM.

Let him sell his goddamn editor. It's his code, he can do what he wants with it.

[Fredrik]

Whatever. I don't think I really care. I pay. Except it's too complicated paying over the Internet so maybe not.