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uhbooh

Nex Credo

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Figured it was too early. Plus when it comes to inclusion of new maps, the old ones get replaced.
And that makes me feel guilty.

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Don't feel like my offering maps is any obligation to replace those already fit for purpose, guys. If you like what's already there, that's perfectly fine. If not, there's probably 8/9 servicable maps in Nex Credo that can offer some kind of fallback should it be needed. :)

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Its not just that. Most of the maps being replaced are Zok's maps. If you read earlier threads, Zok said he would prefer that his maps stay in Freedoom, so that he'll/somone else will make appropiate changes. IIRC.

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I don't understand, you said you "felt like killing myself because of these maps" and yet you don't want to replace them because the author said not to.

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uhbooh said:

I don't understand, you said you "felt like killing myself because of these maps" and yet you don't want to replace them because the author said not to.

Exactly. The author doesn't want these maps replaced, but I do. You see the dilemma?

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Voros said:

Exactly. The author doesn't want these maps replaced, but I do. You see the dilemma?


I see, maybe we can start a poll and see what other people want to do. Also some of these aren't zok's maps so you can go ahead and replace those.

Oh and one more thing, use this for map 31, I changed the fake exit into the secret exit. Nevermind, you can do whatever you want.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/rwvivq1b65ql5hq/map31.wad

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it doesnt matter if someone doesn't want their contribution replaced. if something better is contributed than the weaker assets should be replaced

that said i still think the mapping phase should come after the art assets are finihed

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raymoohawk said:

that said i still think the mapping phase should come after the art assets are finihed


If a set of new textures like Aquatex are being employed, I totally agree. I offered Nex Credo's maps before I knew this was happening; with the original Freedoom set of vanilla-equivalent textures theoretically any stock-resource maps thrown in there would work though.

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just to be clear: I never said i would like my maps dont be replaced.

if i wasnt clear about that then sorry for the misunderstood, since im not english native. so please dont said "things" in my name because its annoying people say "just because he said it". i understand how a project work. if it good to go, fine. if not bad luck brian i guess.

i was pointing freedoom needed more control over the project, i remember back when the project was aiming vanilla only, then the idea of limit removing come, then the "boom" features come again, and now its vanilla only. this why the project need to decide What they want and stay locked on it.

And yes like anyone else who spent time doing something would be dissapointed by the decision but not something like "Oh booho i dont want my maps replaced" since in the end only the leader project have the last word and people should accept what the project leader want for such project and that its something i respect.

EDIT: just for future reference i NEVER said such thing, i accepted the fact that my maps would be removed because the detail.

Z0k said:

Ohh crud all my maps going to be removed then lol since they have lot of detail that probably not going to fit in vanilla compatible unless its limit removing, well i guess im going to find where to use those maps then. probably should add to the to do map list: map12, map15, map28 C1M5 and C2M5 since those are my maps and im sure they arent vanilla compatible

https://www.doomworld.com/vb/post/1534643

Z0k said:

would be a good idea to post a map list once again of maps to be done again, this so mappers can do a new vanilla maps compatibles for the new iwad.

while my maps were made in doom and doom2 format to be vanilla im pretty sure those wouldnt be vanilla compatible due the amount of sectors and vertex to detail them, and honestly spent like 3 months per map only to end removed from the version and preserved in an alternate wad that barely anyone would play, and in that case i would prefeer to take my maps for future projects if they were removed.

https://www.doomworld.com/vb/post/1535063

Z0k said:

fair enough, i would prefeer them not appear in the "alternative wad" because i would feel my maps were more like "rejected" if they appear there, you know kinda the guy who get into a team but they dont going to play unless one of the team member hurt his leg.

well i guess im going to use them in other projects.

https://www.doomworld.com/vb/post/1535069

Look Voros: its fine you dont like my maps no everybody would like every map, everyone have their tastes. what i dont like its you telling stuff i wouldnt. if you dont like my maps its fine, just dont make me look like "i booho dont want my maps replaced" that for me its like you have more things agaisnt me just because you didnt like my maps.

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^Ahh, ok. The way you wrote your third quoted post made it seem like you didn't want your maps to replaced.
My bad. I apologise if I made you look bad. TBH, i like your maps. Its just that they can get so confusing sometimes, and requiring past knowledge of the map. That's one reason on why I thought they should be replaced. The second was for not being vanilla compatible.

No hard feelings?

And for now, lets put maps as the final step or so. Let raymoohawk/Sodaholic keep working with GFX.

I also used this list put together by andrewj to help me with good slots. As you can see, your maps are listed mostly as major work.
(Yes i know the list is a bit outdated, which is why also checked ingame)

Spoiler

andrewj said:

Phase 1:

C1M2 : minor work
C1M3 : Ok
C1M4 : minor work
C1M8 : Ok
C1M9 : Ok

C1M1 : major work of outdoor area
C1M5 : major work in several areas
C1M6 : major work of outdoor area, plus another area
C1M7 : major work in SW and SE areas

------------

C2M1 : Ok
C2M3 : Ok
C2M4 : Ok
C2M6 : minor work
C2M7 : Ok
C2M8 : Ok

C2M2 : major work in two areas
C2M5 : major work in two areas (e.g. outdoor area in SE)
C2M9 : major work in two areas

------------

C3M1 : Ok
C3M2 : no map
C3M3 : no map
C3M4 : minor work
C3M5 : no map
C3M6 : probably minor work
C3M8 : Ok

C3M7 : major work in one area
C3M9 : major work in northern area, minor/medium in other areas

------------

E4M2 : minor work
E4M3 : Ok
E4M4 : Ok
E4M5 : Ok
E4M6 : Ok
E4M8 : Ok
E4M9 : Ok

E4M1 : major work in large SW area
E4M7 : major work in approx two areas

Phase 2:
MAP01 : Ok
MAP02 : minor/medium work
MAP03 : minor work in one area
MAP05 : minor work
MAP09 : no map

MAP04 : major work
MAP06 : medium/major work in northern outdoor area
MAP07 : major work in central area
MAP08 : major work in several areas

MAP10 : very major work, perhaps not salvagable

------------

MAP11 : minor work
MAP14 : Ok
MAP16 : medium work in NE area
MAP17 : minor work for visplanes, major for drawsegs

MAP18 : major work in central area, also in N

MAP12 : very major work, perhaps not salvagable
MAP13 : very major work, perhaps not salvagable
MAP15 : very major work, perhaps not salvagable
MAP19 : left side of map is off the scales!
MAP20 : very major work, perhaps not salvagable

------------

MAP21 : Ok
MAP23 : minor work
MAP26 : Ok
MAP27 : Ok
MAP29 : minor work for visplanes, major for drawsegs
MAP30 : Ok
MAP32 : Ok

MAP31 : major work in several areas
MAP22 : major work in several areas, perhaps not salvagable

MAP24 : very major work, perhaps not salvagable
MAP25 : very major work, perhaps not salvagable
MAP28 : very major work, perhaps not salvagable

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I think map11 of nex credo should be map12 or 13 because it's a city map. Also map06 of fd is from jenesis so that should be replaced with a nc map.

I think something like this would be good

nexcr -> freedoom
MAP03 -> MAP04
MAP06 -> MAP06
MAP08 -> MAP10 (move old one to 19
MAP09 -> MAP12
MAP11 -> MAP13
MAP10 -> MAP31

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uhbooh said:

Also map06 of fd is from jenesis so that should be replaced with a nc map.

What's your point? Replace one PWAD map with another PWAD map? What's wrong with Jenesis?

The reason on why I chose those maps was for the player's sake. The map can drag on way too long, unless the player has past knowledge of the map.

Plus the midi and map of slot 10 fits SO WELL. It would be a shame to move it to slot19. Map04 and 10 should stay. They're relatively simple to play. But 12, 13 and 31 better go. I guess 06 too.

That's what I think.

On another note, some of the maps need to be edited, eg the one that I put in slot 28. It has some human like structures, like a toilet, sofa, TV (?). Should they be removed?

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Voros said:

What's your point? Replace one PWAD map with another PWAD map? What's wrong with Jenesis?

It's a boom map and it has static limit overflows.

The reason on why I chose those maps was for the player's sake. The map can drag on way too long, unless the player has past knowledge of the map.

I know, but some of these would have to be retextured or edited to much just to fit their slot, such as putting a starport level as map28.

Plus the midi and map of slot 10 fits SO WELL. It would be a shame to move it to slot19. Map04 and 10 should stay. They're relatively simple to play. But 12, 13 and 31 better go. I guess 06 too.

I understand your point about map10, maybe nex map08 can be one of the city maps (12-20)

That's what I think.

On another note, some of the maps need to be edited, eg the one that I put in slot 28. It has some human like structures, like a toilet, sofa, TV (?). Should they be removed?

See what I said about that level above, it just doesn't work as a hell map.

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uhbooh said:

I know, but some of these would have to be retextured or edited to much just to fit their slot, such as putting a starport level as map28.

It's not exactly a starport level. There's obviously a hellish influence going on here. And whuch is why I chose 28. But it might fit map18 too.

uhbooh said:

I understand your point about map10, maybe nex map08 can be one of the city maps (12-20)

Maybe. Gonna have to double check.

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Voros said:

It's not exactly a starport level. There's obviously a hellish influence going on here. And whuch is why I chose 28. But it might fit map18 too.

If you're looking for a map to replace, map20 is full of boom features and breaks the segs and visiplane limit. The original map20, gotcha, was an earth level with hellish influence so it might fit.

Maybe. Gonna have to double check.

Going by the map20 idea above, this one could be map18 or 19.

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Seems like a good level order, much better than the last one. I still think nex credo's map11 should be in there somewhere (maybe map12) but it's mostly up to you.

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^ I'll look into it.

And speaking of maps, map14 seems more like a map for the range 1-10, not beyond it.
IIRC, it was a part of a 10 Sectors project, made by Jon. How about switching this map with one of the earlier maps?

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Oh I forgot about that one, personally I think it should just be removed. It's full of visplane and segs overflows, has a nasty medusa that crashes the vanilla game, and doesn't play very well. One of the nex credo maps can replace it.

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Well, if you can't find a suitable map in nex credo, there's several single level pwads that might work for map14. First one that came to mind is Tom Mustaine's doom2 map14 homage.

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