SnapMap update

[DooM_RO]

Edward850 said:

An acquaintance of mine asked them about that at QuakeCon, and was told that they would like to release a map SDK but it's "not likely at this stage". Implying either legal limitations or technology.
Note that a map SDK is an actual complete radiant editor (I have no idea if they are still using anything even Radiant based, mind you), so not exclusive to snapmap, as that would be missing the entire point of snapmap, but rather the game in general. So not prefabs, or anything to do with them.

However, that information could also be hella old by now (this limitations behind such toolsets will change at any moment). I'd probably ignore this information by this point. ... So I'm not even sure why I'm saying it.

It may be due to Denuvo?...Idk.

Nevertheless the overall base of Snapmap is OK but it's very limited. For me, editing would ideally be a mix of props, prefab layouts and blocking modules. Except we currently have a very limited selection of props, very few textures for blocks and the blocks themselves and the props are clunky to move around. The blocking modules should also be able to be deformed, like any other 3D model. An SDK may not be even necessary.

[Edward850]

DooM_RO said:

It may be due to Denuvo?...Idk.

Nah, definitely not Denuvo, I'd be surprised and confused if it was. If it's a legal limitation, it'd be because the editor used licensed technology like a type of compiler or resource compression, or some kind of commercial API or interface. A technology limitation likewise would be if it required some kind of rendering server for baking resources, something with a lot of RAM and storage.

[SgtHermann]

i like the new patch.
the new props are great.
the new possibilties must still be explored.
the construction props should do a good job.
i didnt get how to put textures on blocking volumes. any hints?

the classic modules are waste of space. in my view they compete with doom-ports like g-doom or zandronum and loose big time.
the new ai models in the classic low res enviroment wont blend together.
and the action happens in great mods like brutal doom 2.0 b.
the music is nice and useless.
the classic sound-fx are unnessecary.

the classic modules with modern textures and props would be a better way.
the classic musicthemes in industrial or metal interpretation would be a blast.

nevertheless i am looking forward to work with the new content.

sgt;)

[Doktor Mandrake]

SgtHermann said:

i like the new patch.
the new props are great.
the new possibilties must still be explored.
the construction props should do a good job.
i didnt get how to put textures on blocking volumes. any hints?

the classic modules are waste of space. in my view they compete with doom-ports like g-doom or zandronum and loose big time.
the new ai models in the classic low res enviroment wont blend together.
and the action happens in great mods like brutal doom 2.0 b.
the music is nice and useless.
the classic sound-fx are unnessecary.

the classic modules with modern textures and props would be a better way.
the classic musicthemes in industrial or metal interpretation would be a blast.

nevertheless i am looking forward to work with the new content.

sgt;)

I disagree, personally I like all the classic stuff they added, I don't feel things like classic sounds are uncessecary either, was having fun last night playing a custom geo level with the player death sounds and such :)

Edit: Anyone know any good maps or updated maps with new content? I'm too lazy to build and want some good co-op ones but I guess its still early on atm

[DooM_RO]

Some of the new impaled humans props are really disgusting.

[id.dav]

Edward850 said:

An acquaintance of mine asked them about that at QuakeCon, and was told that they would like to release a map SDK but it's "not likely at this stage" (not exact words). Implying either legal limitations or technology.
Note that a map SDK is an actual complete radiant editor (I have no idea if they are still using anything even Radiant based, mind you), so not exclusive to snapmap, as that would be missing the entire point of snapmap, but rather the game in general. So not prefabs, or anything to do with them.

However, that information could also be hella old by now (this limitations behind such toolsets will change at any moment). I'd probably ignore this information by this point. ... So I'm not even sure why I'm saying it.

I'm pretty positive they are still using radiant, like Rage does.
The question still is - is it a map SDK only....cos Rage tool kit isn't - id studio is an ultimate tool set to mess around with game tech.
What if I want to use the following as a SnapMap prop?

It is a game resolution asset with normal maps, no diffuse yet....but I can easely drop it to Rage tool kit and build a map with it.
The question is how to share it for SnapMap across platforms?

[Chubzdoomer]

SgtHermann said:

i didnt get how to put textures on blocking volumes. any hints?

Press Q and E to cycle through the categories of textures.

[bloodshot]

Just fyi, if you hit F1 you can change the camera move speed. idk if this is new or it was already there, but it helps LOADS with precision object placement

SgtHermann said:

the music is nice and useless.
the classic sound-fx are unnessecary.

I disagree. the more ambient tracks like suspense or demons on the prey can still be used for ambience in newer maps.

And I already used the quick door sound from classic doom to create a door that isn't part of a module, and i plan to use the teleport sound as well

[ShadesMaster]

Speaking of textures, to get what was a 128x128 texture in classic doom to tile evenly on a blocking volume... make it a 192x192 cube. And that's the height of a classic door module, so Startan and things in modules are sometimes stretched from its original scale-1 dimensions. And so, a 64 wide classic texture fits on a 96-wide volume. #facts

[ENEMY!!!]

As promised, here's some WIP shots of the start of my remake of E1M1, hell style:

First room:



The famous inlet stairs in the second room:

The new update definitely allows for better architecture with just props and blocking volumes, though unless I'm missing something, there's still the major limitation of the AI (except flying monsters) and player starts only being placeable at ground level.

[Chubzdoomer]

ENEMY!!! said:

As promised, here's some WIP shots of the start of my remake of E1M1, hell style:

First room:
http://i.imgur.com/UvBYtpB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/503Vmis.jpg

The famous inlet stairs in the second room:
http://i.imgur.com/Sm514nq.jpg
The new update definitely allows for better architecture with just props and blocking volumes, though unless I'm missing something, there's still the major limitation of the AI (except flying monsters) and player starts only being placeable at ground level.

Wow, that looks awesome so far! Be sure to keep us updated!

[Jaxxoon R]

I like how the demons' top priority was to steal the UAC's florescent lights and vending machines. Looks pretty rad.

[Doktor Mandrake]

Here's some screenshots of the map I've been working on, made from scratch using blocking volumes and classic textures

Gotta say, I think having actual textures for blocking volumes is one of the best things ever in this update ^^

[DooM_RO]

It seems 1994 mapping has reached Doom 2016.

[Doktor Mandrake]

I'm trying to do a classic in-door uac map for the next area of the level, but having trouble atm, for one trying to get the ceiling perfectly straight is near impossible and also when I resize some of the wall, floor or ceiling textures they just don't look right, look too big

So not sure what to do in terms of doing an indoor enviroment

[Tuaam]

id.dav said:

FFffff//fffff FUCK ME OUTSIDE! I must be fucking dreaming.

I won't fuck you outside, but I will agree that it's quite amazing.

[Chubzdoomer]

DooM_RO said:

It seems 1994 mapping has reached Doom 2016.

Better than no proper mapping at all!

[Chubzdoomer]

Doktor Mandrake said:

I'm trying to do a classic in-door uac map for the next area of the level, but having trouble atm, for one trying to get the ceiling perfectly straight is near impossible and also when I resize some of the wall, floor or ceiling textures they just don't look right, look too big

So not sure what to do in terms of doing an indoor enviroment

What do you mean by getting the ceiling "perfectly straight"? I'm not sure I understand.

Also, with the complete lack of texture alignment/scaling options, you can forget about making everything look just right. You'll just have to get away with what you can. It kind of sucks, but I don't think we'll ever be able to manipulate the textures themselves.

[Tuaam]

I really wish they had the mouse enabled for manipulating objects, instead of using the keys and slightly nudging them.

As in, have a grid and allow the user to make the grid smaller / larger, and also allow the user to move objects along grid.

Also could somebody explain hotspots?

[Chubzdoomer]

Tuaam said:

I really wish they had the mouse enabled for manipulating objects, instead of using the keys and slightly nudging them.

I'm not sure if you already knew, but you can hold Shift and use the mouse to rotate objects instead of having to use Q/E to nudge them a few degrees.

Tuaam said:

Also could somebody explain hotspots?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they're just textures that automatically scale themselves to be exactly as large as each side of your blocking volume instead of tiling like other textures.

[Chubzdoomer]

ENEMY!!! said:

though unless I'm missing something, there's still the major limitation of the AI (except flying monsters) and player starts only being placeable at ground level.

I was just messing around and figured out that you can make the player "start" on blocking volumes simply by teleporting him there when he spawns. This works for demons, too, but there's one huge drawback: Since the volumes have no navmesh, demons can't move on them. You can still use this for projectile-based enemies if you just want them shoot at you from afar, but even that has limited uses since they can't even turn to face you (meaning the moment you move to their side or behind them, they'll stop attacking all together).

[ENEMY!!!]

I expect to have my hellish E1M1 remake published this Wednesday or Thursday.

The devs' implementation of classic-themed big plain rooms with slime and lava pits is an excellent idea, but I wish they'd continued further and done it with the modern themes as well: grid rooms with slime, lava and Disodium-37 pits. A grid room with a slime pit would have been ideal for the E1M1 remake; as it stands, I had to rely on green-coloured blocking volumes and radioactive FX to give the illusion of slime.

With this in mind, after releasing this map, I'm tempted to experiment with putting custom rooms based on hell props inside some of the pre-built modules, though I am likely to run into significant limitations there.

[bloodshot]

You can recolor the gore textures for blocking volumes, and one in particular is very reflective and slime-esque. It looks very much like doom 3 slime when colored green.

If you combine that with decals and fx you can get a very convincing effect

[Jaxxoon R]

I'm assuming classic modules would be great bases for volume/prop-based corridors, since they should(?) be rather low in terms of resource usage. Too bad there's no way to turn off the classic fog effect.

[bloodshot]

There's already an empty module room for standard UAC that serves that purpose, though it has no height variation like the new classic grid rooms do.

Experimenting with new types of areas using modules













These new volumes and props really help a lot even if you aren't building rooms from scratch

[TheBloodbanshee]

bloodshot, I'd love to check out those maps. Are they published/going to be published? Also, did they remove Photo Mode from campaign in this update? Can't find it anymore...

[Doktor Mandrake]

chubz said:

What do you mean by getting the ceiling "perfectly straight"? I'm not sure I understand.

Also, with the complete lack of texture alignment/scaling options, you can forget about making everything look just right. You'll just have to get away with what you can. It kind of sucks, but I don't think we'll ever be able to manipulate the textures themselves.

As in, I'll drop a blocking volume, then turn it into a ceiling texture

Then as I go to rotate it, so it's facing the correct direction (like a ceiling) it just never goes straight enough and always at a funky angle

It's when you manipulate the volume and rotate it, doesn't allow me to be accurate enough with it, not using a controller anyway

Decided just to use skybox for the UAC area I'm doing anyway, doesn't seem very practical making my own classic ceiling using blocking volumes

[Jaxxoon R]

Don't rotate it, just lower the height and set the depth and width so it's wide and flat.

[Doktor Mandrake]

Jaxxoon R said:

Don't rotate it, just lower the height and set the depth and width so it's wide and flat.

Thanks

good idea, never thought of that :p

[Tuaam]

Really what the blocking volumes and props do is make the rooms look different to stop monotony. You can even set them to static to prevent them from using up alot of memory up.

Honestly once we get stuff like user defined rooms and malleable objects (Which shouldn't be impossible, unless the engine prevents is), then it's a real level editor in my eyes. Can you remake a map from the campaign? Probably not, but you can make classic - style levels that are custom in their own right; but use piece rooms and objects to make them look different.


I think the next step would be to remove the limits, and maybe have a 100 room limit instead. Or completely remove the percentages and provide optimization brushes and tools that can help make the map easier to make, and if the map does exceed limits then provide a warning for lower - end computers / platforms.