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ThePetitDwarf

Would you finance a PWAD project?

Would you finance a PWAD project?  

53 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you finance a PWAD project?

    • If it seems promising, of course.
      18
    • No, under any terms.
      35


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I've played so many good and long PWADs that could even be considered a different game, that I've always asked to me: how can these people finish something this big for free? Stronghold, Torment and Torture and Pirate Doom, for example, are extremely huge. I know it's possible, but it takes a lot of time -Stronghold took 9 years- because the creator can't dedicate all of his time on them.

Maybe if creators do crowfounding campaigns it would take less time, but maybe that's against Doom fanbase' philosophy? I remember the creators of Plutonia got hated because of selling their creation to id Software, so maybe receiving money directly from using the Doom engine is seen as bad for the community. Correct me if I'm wrong.

So, would you finance a PWAD project?

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For general PWADS, and as an author of many maps myself, I can see both sides. In terms of positives:
- Money would be a motivator, there's no two ways about it.
- If somehow enough money was input, some people would be able to devote more time to mapping & modding.

On the flipside, however,
- it would become a 'job'. On a day where I feel I don't want to map, I'd feel like I HAVE to make maps because I've been /will be paid to do so.
- unpaid community projects will probably die out if it became normal to have your PWAD work backed financially.


I personally would be very unlikely to spend a penny on other mappers, if only because I enjoy making my own maps as much as I enjoy playing other people's works.

I would only consider helping to fund a pwad if it was to become a commercial project, and there was a return on my investment. There's already enough good Doom content to last me till I die, and then some, so it'd have to be astoundingly good for me to fund it.

For example, if the project is to make a new game using GLOOME or another commercially viable alternative to the Doom Engine; and I was promised something in return for my financial input (discount/free copy, name in credits, usual backer type rewards), I'd consider it.

Ultimately, if you can earn money doing what you love, good on you, or if you have enough disposable cash to help fund a game, again, good on you.

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Dragonfly said:

- it would become a 'job'. On a day where I feel I don't want to map, I'd feel like I HAVE to make maps because I've been /will be paid to do so.


Couldn't agree with you more on that point. It's the main reason I quit doing graphic design.

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Given the long and convoluted process many people go through before releasing an episode or megawad, the risk of angst or doomsaying (this project is abandoned!) wouldn't be worth the money.

On the other hand, if more top-quality TCs took a note from the AGS adventure game community and released as commercial projects, would be great.

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Plenty of great stuff is made by people with only the passion to create and share great stuff, and that's how it should be. I think adding money to the equation would only dilute the quality of the end product, and would suck the life out of the entire process.

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I already have worries about amateurism vs professionalism... adding money to the equation would be really alienating to me and probably to most other authors.

on the other hand I'd encourage all the best creators to make themselves donateable to in some fashion, through bandcamp or such methods. there could definitely be like... pcorf badges, lainos lunchboxes and xaser coffee mugs. but the mods themselves should stay free perpetually

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Never. At least not unless the mapper uses sector furniture as a part of their natural style. There are enough technically competent but soulless wads as is.

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I personally would not finance a pwad project. There's so much fantastic stuff out there for free that there's little incentive to start paying for it. I personally would feel guilty if I got paid for making Doom wads, part of the joy of mapping is making something others can enjoy regardless of their financial standing. There's already enough money grubbing going on in the world.

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Only if it would be Deus Vult 3 made by Huy Pham. Yes. Otherwise - no.

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Only for a Total Conversion with new full-rotation monsters and guns. Something like HacX with better and bigger maps. And allowing the community to release free pwads for this commercial iwad. They would be playble by owners only of course.

Otherwise I would maaayybe donate a few bucks to mappers that have already proven their talent if their new project would be awesome.

For something equivalent to TNT or Plutonia, meaning a full doom2 mapset with some new gfx and music ... no, sorry.

(You can't even charge money if your mod original id resources so....)

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Only as some sort of donation. Or not even that.
Anyway, I think asking for donations is perfectly okay, but funding is a bit too much and goes against the Spirit of PWAD$ (TM).

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I would if I was passionate about the wad in question, the only problem I have with the concept is the distribution of funds, since some guys on the team do more work than others or just have a much higher bar for quality than others. And for a project like btsx where the number of contributors is enormous the disparity of man-hours is going to be inevitable.

In other words, it'd require at least one person to manage the funds, and agreements between members, and negotiations about compensation. It's a lot of extra bother when all you want to do is make a map, or write a song.

Better would be a way to tip specific designers/musicians/etc, which a handful of folks have set up for themselves and I think is cool.

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Dragonfly said:

- it would become a 'job'. On a day where I feel I don't want to map, I'd feel like I HAVE to make maps because I've been /will be paid to do so.

Which is why Kickstarter allows you to donate per release. I think it works pretty fine that way.

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I wouldn't mind donating for a project if it has a clear deadline, the author occasionally posts updates to what's going on, and I like it.

However, like a lot of people said here, there are so many awesome projects that are getting released for free. The project I am donating for must feel truly special and unique for me (like Ancient Aliens or Sunder did).

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If I really thought it would help, I'd probably donate to certain projects that have had painfully long development cycles (<--speaking purely from an entirely self-centered/entitled consumer standpoint, I mean) in order to hopefully soft-guarantee they'd at least be released sometime rather than quietly fading away forever as I've seen so many cool projects do over the years, but realistically that's not the way it works of course, and thinking about it rationally I really doubt such a model would be healthy for the community in the long run. This is a 20+ year old game with a modding community built from the ground up on an entirely free development/distro model (beyond the small investment required to acquire the base executables, that is), and I reckon it's still as vibrant as it is in the here and now precisely because it's always been a 'labor of love' sort of proposition and not much else. I don't consider myself to be particularly alarmist as far as the whole histrionic 'indie vs. pro' (or 'vintage' vs. 'modern', as the issue is often framed in our community) dichotomy is concerned, but with monetization does come a certain aspect of expectation and an inevitable increase in a marketing-centric methodology, and I reckon that part of the joy of community output all these years is that there's always been plenty of room for somebody creating something in accordance with nothing but their own vision, zeitgeist aside, while enjoying a more or less even footing with more popular stuff as far as the issue of accessibility and exposure goes. I guess I've got sort of a "it's not broken, so don't try to fix it" mindset on the issue, you might say.

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I just thought of a way I would. If I were Mr. Moneybags, and a mapper I liked was in a bad situation (homeless, for example), I'd certainly help them get back on their feet, in exchange for a "thank you" map, which could be as small as they wanted but not shat out. :D

Odds are they would probably make other maps for the wider community that they wouldn't have been able to make otherwise, and I'd be subsidizing that, but it wouldn't be an explicit or even implied part of the bargain, because it would be far from ideal if they felt pressured to make maps.

Obvious follow-up question: rdwpa, what about mappers you don't like -- you'd just leave them to die on the streets?

Sigh.

Well let's just say I'm glad I'm not rich.

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VGA said:

Only for a Total Conversion with new full-rotation monsters and guns. Something like HacX with better and bigger maps. And allowing the community to release free pwads for this commercial iwad. They would be playble by owners only of course.

This. I'd pay for some very nice monsters, yes, with full rotations, multiple deaths, full set of nice sounds. And, if I paid, I would expect to receive them for my personal use, before everyone else got them (though, they would eventually get them free to use). This would allow them to be placed in a TC, before everyone else got to see them.

Now, I'd buy a TC, after it was built. I'd buy up a Romero pwad anyday - someone should suggest that to him!

But money changes things, and not always for the better. Doom editing is a labor of love, and it's been working pretty well. Crowdfunding a Doom mapping project feels weird to me. If someone needs incentive for a cash endeavor, they can always sell their TC, once it's built.

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I often find myself wandering some truly spectacular maps and thinking "Whoever did this should be paid for it, dammit!", so personally I think the idea has some merit. I'd say that while mapping itself shouldn't really be financed and turned into a job, it'd be heartening to see some Doom mappers around here release commercial material. So while I wouldn't finance the creation of a PWAD, I'd definitely pay good money for it when it's completed.

Provided it's good quality, of course. :P

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Vorpal said:

In other words, it'd require at least one person to manage the funds, and agreements between members, and negotiations about compensation. It's a lot of extra bother when all you want to do is make a map, or write a song.



Teams can disband because of simple disagreements about who does this and that, see the tnt2 split for example... now add money to this equation and see how far we get ;)

If I had the funds i'd rather support the community with servers, prizes for LaNS, maybe donations for the cacoward winners because those aren't decided by me.

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Nope. Mainly as there's so much amazing stuff already available for free that paid content would have to offer a serious step up, and i can't see how that is possible. Proof of concept is that No Rest for the Living is not even close to being as good as the likes of BTSX, Ancient Aliens, Sunlust, etc.

Also it would feel like trying to force paid DLC (one of the worst things about modern gaming) onto Doom. Fuck that.

Donations are a completely different kettle of fish.

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Not even a penny.

Chances are that I could go on the archives and pull a better one out for free than what would be produced (I also have very particular tastes that I wouldn't expect any project like this to meet).

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simply no, there's a lifetime of stuff I haven't played yet on idgames and a lifetime of stuff that I'd like to replay

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