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Josuke

I can't be the only one here who highly dislikes slaughtermaps

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I mean, I don't mind the ones that are smaller but add that spark to get you running and gunning, but then there's the ones like Holy Hell that are all the same basically. You flip a few switches, kill all the enemies in the area, repeat. Occasionally there's the ones with keys and stuff but that's about it to me.

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I can't be the only one here who notices that you've yet to make a post worth reading, across whatever number of accounts you have had.

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Some like Stardate 20x6 can be interesting because there's probably more thought and fine tuning going into each battle than into the average map. Those I don't mind.

The rest, I could do without. I already play on HMP most of the time because I'm a filthy casual.

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Albertoni said:

Some like Stardate 20x6 can be interesting because there's probably more thought and fine tuning going into each battle than into the average map. Those I don't mind.

The rest, I could do without. I already play on HMP most of the time because I'm a filthy casual.


Any good slaughtermap has way more thought put into encounter design than a typical map. Spammy slaughtermaps aren't worse than regular maps in that regard either -- the gameplay in a lot of regular maps feels like pure filler, where the layout was made first and monsters were placed within it mainly so that it isn't empty.

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To me there are a few exceptions. But other than that I view them as all the same. I don't see how most of them can be enjoyable.
I mean some of them have great design, don't get me wrong.

rdwpa said:

I can't be the only one here who notices that you've yet to make a post worth reading, across whatever number of accounts you have had.


Can you not? I just wanna see how many people share the same opinion on this.

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Not a fan myself. I once made a post calling slaughter maps lazy which got a reaction. But truth be told I'm sure creating a proper slaughter map takes lots of time and thought. Testing may be a huge factor as well.

I never liked them as my goals are to reach 100% on kills and pickups (even secrets but I do tend begrudgingly give up) in addition I enjoy smaller tactical encounters over large scale slaughter. Going 100% route on a slaughter map drains me out of playing Doom for a while.

I remember getting frustrated with all the slaughter maps when I was exploring lots of endorsed megawads. It's just a matter of taste.

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I used to be the same but i've either come across some i like or my skill level has improved, so i can appreciate them on some level now. Some of them are combat puzzles to try and figure out how to beat. Also surviving complete carnage can be a good rush.

Gotta be in the mood for this style of gameplay though, personally.

The problem with slaughter maps is that the badly designed ones are absolutely infuriating.

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scotty said:

The problem with slaughter maps is that the badly designed ones are absolutely infuriating.

Example of a bad slaughter map: AV map 26.

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j4rio said:

Damn, homie, are you for real?

I mean, yeah. He said he doesn't like them that much, and so did I. Case closed.

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Maps loaded to the brim type slaughter are unappealing but I do like high count maps but not getting ridiculous such as Sunder, Slaughterfest series, etc.

I'd rather watch people on Youtube than play those types of maps.

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HorrorMovieGuy said:

Just load it up with eweps.wad and you're good to go.

That isn't the thing. I just prefer gameplay where the maps aren't filled to the brim with cyberdemons and barons everywhere. They've become completely unoriginal.

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WH-Wilou84 said:

What


Is this the part where we get into a numbers argument as to how high the monster count needs to be to qualify as a slaughtermapβ„’? Go 2 It has ~200 monsters, Memento Mori map23 has ~300 and Scythe 2 map28 has ~400(?). What Stardate does is forgo monster spam and tediousness in favour of shorter encounters where every enemy has a purpose and player space is limited. Plus a few of the later maps have around 1k or more enemies so there you go.

My opinion as a professional slaughtermapper is that 2k is around the sweet spot as far as high monster count maps go. If you're playing something with 5k+ enemies it's probably tedious dogshit, i.e. Sunder map11.

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rileymartin said:

Is this the part where we get into a numbers argument as to how high the monster count needs to be to qualify as a slaughtermapβ„’?

Except it's not about the monster count.
It's more about how the monsters are used, the openness of the areas, the overall pace of the map, the available weaponry, the battle scenarios etc...
I've played maps with 500+ monsters which weren't slaughtermaps at all ( e.g. the Vela Pax betas ).

Go 2 It is indeed a ( the ? ) prime example of what a slaughtermap is :
- Liberal use of high tier monsters in packs, and even bosses
- Relatively large arena-like rooms to house these monster packs and allow for some monster bypassing / infighting opportunities
- Big weapons available ( RL / BFG9000 ), with plenty of ammo for these weapons and even an excess of them to allow for some mishaps - same goes for powerups and spheres

Stardate 20X6 is a wad that certainly kills you, but it's not a slaughtermap set.

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Sgt Ender said:

That isn't the thing. I just prefer gameplay where the maps aren't filled to the brim with cyberdemons and barons everywhere. They've become completely unoriginal.


You must have deeply sampled all of the latest slaughtermaps in order to make this piercing observation about the current state of slaughermaps. Even though you don't like slaughtermaps! You put in a lot of hard work, lad.

The slaughtermapper coven will take it under advisement that they should start using revenants too.

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Ooh, are we finally trying to define what the term slaughter actually means? Here's the definition I came up with for reviewing purposes: a slaughterfest is a battle in which the monster density (taking into account both numbers and health) and the use of space force the use of the BFG as the primary weapon and the rocket launcher as the secondary weapon.

Pretty simple. You can usually take on a couple of Cyberdemons or a few hundred Imps with the RL and plasma rifle, so monster type and numbers don't define the mapping style, but tight enough confines could potentially force those encounters into being slaughter gameplay. Stardate 20X6 isn't a slaughter wad, but it doesn't usually make sense to talk about slaughter wads, only slaughter encounters -- and at least the last map of Stardate does have a few. Kama Sutra and Speed of Doom both have plenty of slaughter battles, but only a few full-blown slaughter maps each. Sunlust is full of slaughter fights; Valiant has none at all. Combat Shock 2 is all slaugher, and I hate it; the last battle of Mutiny is the only slaughter fight in the whole wad and is also one of the most beautifully coordinated battles I've ever fought.

I hate bad slaughter maps, but not necessarily all slaughtermaps. I'm definitely more likely to think a slaughtermap is bad than I am with a regular map, just because the potential for frustration is so much higher. However, lots of people like them, and that's obviously valid too.

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WH-Wilou84 said:

What

Okay, on the whole, it isn't a slaughterwad. Still, starting with the last arena of map 3 and form then on, there are quite a few microslaughter battles, arenas with 200+ monsters where you just don't have the ammo or the space to fight, so you're forced to rely on running around, causing infighting so you won't have everyone trying to kill you at once.

I guess it doesn't have the "here, have a BFG, ten thousand cells and ten thousand enemies" thing going for it, but it certainly feels the same even if bite-sized.

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WH-Wilou84 said:

Except it's not about the monster count.
It's more about how the monsters are used, the openness of the areas, the overall pace of the map, the available weaponry, the battle scenarios etc...
I've played maps with 500+ monsters which weren't slaughtermaps at all ( e.g. the Vela Pax betas ).

Go 2 It is indeed a ( the ? ) prime example of what a slaughtermap is :
- Liberal use of high tier monsters in packs, and even bosses
- Relatively large arena-like rooms to house these monster packs and allow for some monster bypassing / infighting opportunities
- Big weapons available ( RL / BFG9000 ), with plenty of ammo for these weapons and even an excess of them to allow for some mishaps - same goes for powerups and spheres

Stardate 20X6 is a wad that certainly kills you, but it's not a slaughtermap set.

Agreed with this, cause there's some here that think Hell Revealed is a slaughtermap set, when really in truth it isn't, despite the fact that it's exceptionally brutal. Few maps in that set would qualify as slaughtermaps, especially Maps 22, 24, and 32. As far as I recall back in February when the DWMC were playing HR, is that the complaints towards it are the Wolfensteinesque level design coupled with taking on high-tier monsters with a very limited arsenal. The level design, I can see why some people would be put off by it, cause you would have thought that Donner and Niv originally intended their project to be for Wolfenstein before bringing it over to Doom, which would demand more for mappers, but I still managed to find some charm in it. At least the design is anything but ugly. There's a bunch of neat ideas here and there. The latter, well, I don't mind it that much, even though I play all the megawads in my collection continuously, so I never really ran into such problems, though I can imagine how attempting pistol starts on UV can be quite insane. I prefer playing difficult wads like Plutonia and HR on HMP, as UV would probably be a bit too much. But going back to being ill-equipped, anyone would forget that it is a stratagem that Malcolm Sailor is infamously known for, looking at wads like his Chord series. So yeah, HR may have had a plethora of maps with monster counts that exceeded the average Doom map of its time (though the Casali Brothers were there first with the Punisher and Seej which has like at least 800 to 900+ monsters respectively), but given the size of the maps and the battle scenarios you tackle, it makes the set less than "slaughter" gameplay. It's more of a fusion of Plutonia and Malcolm Sailor gameplay, and nowadays, it looks like child's play when compared to really insane mapsets like Sunder and Holy Hell. There's even maps with outlandishly high monster counts in Alien Vendetta, though that is justified as many of those maps are mastodonic, sprawling adventures such as Maps 20 and 27.

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