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MinerOfWorlds

Why has no one made a fan made doom 64 sequel?

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That project looks dead as a doornail. I myself am planning to make a 9 level NRFTL style episode for another project of mine which bridges the gap between Doom 64 and DOOM 2016. It's obviously fan made and not official canon, but when its done I as a fan would call it canon to the overall story. I haven't started on it yet because I'm still formulating, and also getting used to a new mapping format.

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Nevander said:

That project looks dead as a doornail. I myself am planning to make a 9 level NRFTL style episode for another project of mine which bridges the gap between Doom 64 and DOOM 2016. It's obviously fan made and not official canon, but when its done I as a fan would call it canon to the overall story. I haven't started on it yet because I'm still formulating, and also getting used to a new mapping format.


What mapping format are you using are you making it for doom64 ex or doom 2\doom 1?

Pedro VC said:


I don't think a project from 2009 and has not been updated since than counts

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MinerOfWorlds said:

What mapping format are you using are you making it for doom64 ex or doom 2\doom 1?

ZDoom (Doom in Hexen Format), will require DOOM2.WAD to run. This allows me to take advantage of scripting capabilities and colored lighting to come as close to Doom 64's style without actually being Doom 64.

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Nevander said:

No it doesn't. You have to a) find the right shade b) use OpenGL rendering.


Although I don't speak for the original developers, I am almost certain that one of the major reasons the Doom 64 TC switched from ZDoom to JDoom was because ZDoom is not capable of the type of colored lighting done in Doom 64. Part of this is because Doom 64 has 5 fields (ceiling, upper wall, lower wall, sprite, floor) that determine the lighting in a sector, whereas ZDoom supports 2 (brightness, hue). You may be able to cheaply imitate some of it with glowing flats these days, but that is not a robust solution because you will have to define a copy of the flat you want to have different glowing lighting in TEXTURES and then, the effect only works in GZDoom specifically.

Just map for Doom 64 EX.

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Nevander said:

ZDoom (Doom in Hexen Format), will require DOOM2.WAD to run. This allows me to take advantage of scripting capabilities and colored lighting to come as close to Doom 64's style without actually being Doom 64.


Isn't udmf format better? i have never used hexen format so i don't know does hexen format allow you to align floor\ceiling textures yourself like udmf?

and will it run on gzdoom? i don't think gzdoom supports fraggle script

JohnnyTheWolf said:

jazzmaster909 can correct me if I am wrong here, but I believe the Innocence X mapsets are supposed to be Doom 64 sequels.


I thought it was supposed to a sequel to ps1\psx doom

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Fisk said:

Just map for Doom 64 EX.

Well for one, GZDoom is a much more stable engine. Doom 64 EX likes to crash a lot with access violations. Not to mention it has a horrible mouse stuttering problem that is going unfixed. It's true, Doom 64 has a much better lighting system and I love the way you can set each part of a sector to its own color, but that style is easy enough to emulate in GZDoom with the proper setup. It's not perfect, but at least its on a stable engine.

I guess it might help to mention that I'm porting Doom 64's maps to GZDoom myself. The other port was garbage and was very poorly organized and was missing a lot of very basic Doom 64-isms that are easily reproducible in GZDoom using scripts.

The episode I am planning to make is included.

MinerOfWorlds said:

Isn't udmf format better? i have never used hexen format so i don't know does hexen format allow you to align floor\ceiling yourself like udmf?

Better, yes. Harder, also yes. Hexen format doesn't allow flat alignments but if you stick to the 64x64 flat grid you won't need to adjust them.

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MinerOfWorlds said:

I thought it was supposed to a sequel to ps1\psx doom


PSX Doom is more or less the same game as vanilla Doom with some alterations to make it work on the Playstation.

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Nevander said:

Better, yes. Harder, also yes. Hexen format doesn't allow flat alignments but if you stick to the 64x64 flat grid you won't need to adjust them.


Okay please tell me when it's done

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Many D64 maps are just boring slugging through bullet spongy nobels ... or lost souls spam. I wish someone would make a boom-compatible tribute to them. Doom 2 The Way Williams Did. With proper Doom 2 gameplay and weapons.

OK maybe keep that awesome chaingun heh

EDIT: Midway Games, not Williams.

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VGA said:

Many D64 maps are just boring slugging through bullet spongy nobels ... or lost souls spam


the maps are fine not as good as doom one but good the levels before hell are boring but the rest are fine

VGA said:

I wish someone would make a boom-compatible tribute to them. Doom 2 The Way Williams Did. With proper Doom 2 gameplay and weapons.


What about doom 64 absolution it's not for boom but it has doom 2 gameplay not the weapons but it's close to what you want you just need doom 2 in my opinion doom 64 is fine and is bad with any other doom gameplay style of gameplay

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Nevander said:

Well for one, GZDoom is a much more stable engine. Doom 64 EX likes to crash a lot with access violations. Not to mention it has a horrible mouse stuttering problem that is going unfixed.

I'm not sure if you're using an older version or something but I have never experienced any of the issues you are describing after having tried D64EX on a variety of hardware and OS configurations ranging from Windows Vista to Windows 10. Are you certain you are not experiencing an isolated issue?

It's true, Doom 64 has a much better lighting system and I love the way you can set each part of a sector to its own color, but that style is easy enough to emulate in GZDoom with the proper setup. It's not perfect, but at least its on a stable engine.

Not likely. There simply aren't sufficient sector properties to make it happen and the only alternatives I can imagine are very difficult or unwieldy to implement. You'd either be relying on GZDoom's glowing flats or creating custom artwork for nearly every single sidedef in every single map and then manually setting a sprite color in UDMF or ACS (is setting sprite colors in ACS even possible?).

I guess it might help to mention that I'm porting Doom 64's maps to GZDoom myself. The other port was garbage and was very poorly organized and was missing a lot of very basic Doom 64-isms that are easily reproducible in GZDoom using scripts.

If you're talking about the Absolution TC, I'm not sure what you mean by 'missing Doom64-isms', but remember that mod came out quite a few years before GZDoom existed.

Better, yes. Harder, also yes. Hexen format doesn't allow flat alignments but if you stick to the 64x64 flat grid you won't need to adjust them.


There is nothing more difficult about UDMF, there are simply more fields and precision for you to work with. Just give it a chance; there is no reason to use the Hexen format for a ZDoom specific level set. One of the biggest and most obvious reasons I can think of to switch is that you are no longer limited to 8-character texture names, which you may want to consider if you're going to be using either custom textures or glowing flats.

That said, the Hexen and Doom map formats certainly allow for flat alignment, but the four methods I know of can be a little awkward to setup; two require ACS (either per-map or with LOADACS for Doom format maps), another method is custom textures, and the final requires Boom displacement scrollers.

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Fisk said:

There is nothing more difficult about UDMF, there are simply more fields and precision for you to work with. Just give it a chance; there is no reason to use the Hexen format for a ZDoom specific level set. One of the biggest and most obvious reasons I can think of to switch is that you are no longer limited to 8-character texture names, which you may want to consider if you're going to be using either custom textures or glowing flats.


Scripting might be harder in UDMF but don't use script's on my maps so i don't know

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Scripting is literally the same in UDMF except linedefs aren't limited to scripts 1 through 255 and can also executed named scripts.

Hell, scripting is arguably easier in UDMF, as you can use far more sector, line, and thing tags and can even apply multiple sector tags to a single sector. Plus you don't have to blow scripts on flat alignment and the like - you can just do that straight through the map format.

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Arctangent said:

Scripting is literally the same in UDMF except linedefs aren't limited to scripts 1 through 255 and can also executed named scripts.

Hell, scripting is arguably easier in UDMF, as you can use far more sector, line, and thing tags and can even apply multiple sector tags to a single sector. Plus you don't have to blow scripts on flat alignment and the like - you can just do that straight through the map format.


So why use hexen format when you have udmf?

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MinerOfWorlds said:

So why use hexen format when you have udmf?

The only reason to use Hexen format nowadays is for compatibility with older engines, since UDMF didn't exist until 2008. If you're making something for modern ZDoom/GZDoom, though, there's no point in using Hexen format, as the format limitations only make it more complicated to do things that can be more directly accomplished in UDMF.

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I'm pretty sure the only engines that even have ZDoom-extended Hexen format are ZDaemon ( which I'm pretty sure isn't even anywhere close to update to date with it ) and Eternity I think? Which either already has or is trying to get UDMF in. So, yeah, even in terms of compatibility there's really not much there. Zandronum supports UDMF and that's what you want to aim for in terms of multiplayer with modern-ism ZDoom features, so Hexen is pretty much just there because, well, it's not like ZDoom's going to stop supporting Hexen format.

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Fisk said:

I'm not sure if you're using an older version or something but I have never experienced any of the issues you are describing after having tried D64EX on a variety of hardware and OS configurations ranging from Windows Vista to Windows 10. Are you certain you are not experiencing an isolated issue?

I probably am because I always get this "isolated issue" bullshit that nobody knows about and is unfixable because I have zero clue where to even begin. Fuck me right? Using version 2.5, Windows 7 64-bit. Someone on the Doom 64 forums (invasionfree) suggested changing the SDL version included to one from DOSBox but it didn't help. They said it did, but doesn't for me. So every "fix" I find for my problems never work, and I'm left to figure out the impossible alone, and thus they go unfixed and blamed on the program itself.

Access violations: while saving, when exiting a map with the automap open, when shooting a gun while outside of the map, when randomly playing a map, the list goes on.

Mouse stuttering: totally random. Tried disabling music, still happens. Disabled xinput, still happens. Increased the heapsize, still happens. I don't know what to try next because there's no fix in sight for this.

If you have a suggestion, please suggest. This shit gets annoying when you have to constantly put up with it.

Fisk said:

Not likely. There simply aren't sufficient sector properties to make it happen and the only alternatives I can imagine are very difficult or unwieldy to implement. You'd either be relying on GZDoom's glowing flats or creating custom artwork for nearly every single sidedef in every single map and then manually setting a sprite color in UDMF or ACS (is setting sprite colors in ACS even possible?).

Maybe you should see a demo map I've finished. Maybe that will light your candle.

Fisk said:

If you're talking about the Absolution TC, I'm not sure what you mean by 'missing Doom64-isms', but remember that mod came out quite a few years before GZDoom existed.

I'm talking about GZDoom64, a messy port by Nightside and I don't even know where it even originated. It's missing things like the rising 3D floor light effects in MAP01, the four cylinders? I already reproduced them to near 100% accuracy myself using 3D floors, sector light fades, and strobe.

Fisk said:

One of the biggest and most obvious reasons I can think of to switch is that you are no longer limited to 8-character texture names, which you may want to consider if you're going to be using either custom textures or glowing flats.

UDMF might not be, but WAD is.

Fisk said:

That said, the Hexen and Doom map formats certainly allow for flat alignment, but the four methods I know of can be a little awkward to setup; two require ACS (either per-map or with LOADACS for Doom format maps), another method is custom textures, and the final requires Boom displacement scrollers.

Considering that all original Doom 64 maps are on the 64x64 flat grid, making it work is easy enough.

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Nevander said:

Mouse stuttering: totally random. Tried disabling music, still happens. Disabled xinput, still happens. Increased the heapsize, still happens. I don't know what to try next because there's no fix in sight for this.


Is the game stuttering or the mouse try setting frame rate to "smooth"

okay i just tested smooth and capped and there's allot of stuttering on capped but i don't know about the crashing i have windows 10 64-bit so i can't help sorry

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MinerOfWorlds said:

Is the game stuttering or the mouse try setting frame rate to "smooth"

okay i just tested smooth and capped and there's allot of stuttering on capped but i don't know about the crashing i have windows 10 64-bit so i can't help sorry

Imagine you're going along through a level as normal in D64EX when suddenly, the mouse movement becomes insanely jerky, moving erratically in such a way that it looks like bad frame drops, except it's not. I know what capped looks like, that's not it. Capped is a smooth effect, this is totally random and 100% not supposed to happen. Sometimes pressing ESC and going back will resolve it right away. Other times it doesn't work and I have to "wait it out" and it stops on its own after about 8 seconds. Is it the mouse? Is it the GPU? Is it the CPU? Is it my drivers? Is it my OS? There's too many possible variables here and trying to isolate it = nightmare.

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Nevander said:

Imagine you're going along through a level as normal in D64EX when suddenly, the mouse movement becomes insanely jerky, moving erratically in such a way that it looks like bad frame drops, except it's not. I know what capped looks like, that's not it. Capped is a smooth effect, this is totally random and 100% not supposed to happen. Sometimes pressing ESC and going back will resolve it right away. Other times it doesn't work and I have to "wait it out" and it stops on its own after about 8 seconds. Is it the mouse? Is it the GPU? Is it the CPU? Is it my drivers? Is it my OS? There's too many possible variables here and trying to isolate it = nightmare.


Do you have a laptop or another computer? try it on that and see if its the same and try reinstalling it

Nevander said:

Capped is a smooth effect


You must have a better pc then me (not surprising my pc sucks for gaming it lags when i play mincraft without optifine) capped is any thing but smooth for me

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MinerOfWorlds said:

You must have a better pc then me (not surprising my pc sucks for gaming it lags when i play mincraft without optifine) capped any thing but smooth for me

I meant smooth in comparison to the stuttering problem. Capped or smooth both are smoother than when it does its stuttering nonsense. Also, my PC stutters even with Optifine on MC. In fact, it's safe to say almost every game I play on this PC stutters. Usually micro-stuttering is related to having two GPUs (so I've read) but surprise surprise I have only one GPU. So, dead end.

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Nevander said:

I meant smooth in comparison to the stuttering problem. Capped or smooth both are smoother than when it does its stuttering nonsense.


Okay.

Nevander said:

my PC stutters even with Optifine on MC. In fact, it's safe to say almost every game I play on this PC stutters. Usually micro-stuttering is related to having two GPUs (so I've read) but surprise surprise I have only one GPU. So, dead end.


that's odd my pc is a very low-end i can only play dos games without lag.

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