"TAS Lite"?

[Kotzugi]

So I've been playing around with -recordfromto and I've found it to be a lot of fun. As you might have guessed, I'm not very familiar with TAS (although I enjoy watching them of course). Using only -recordfromto however gives me a sense of what the optimal level is that I can perform at using normal play. I guess one can use it to tweak the RNG in your favour in addition, but other than that, it still involves normal play without any other "cheats". Attached is a UV-Fast demo of Map 14 of The Rebirth where I achieved a 49 second improvement (out of 6:34, but which I think I could improve by at least 20 seconds in normal play anyway). (Please don't upload to DSDA.) (It does incidentally include three successive arachnotron kills with only two rockets each, and those weren't actually tweaked in any way.)

So I was just wondering if there has been any discussion yet about a sort of "TAS lite" category where only certain TAS features may be used? This would in no way detract from the immense hours of hard work put in by proper users of TAS, but would rather be a way to get people interested in the possibilities and as a way to produce more quality demos (close to non-TAS categories but mostly still better) in less time.

Or has this discussion been done and dusted, with the decision that there is only black and white (for perhaps good reasons)?

Thanks,

Kotzugi

reb14f545.zip

[Ancalagon]

TAS runs using only segmenting are known as segmented (duh) runs.

[4shockblast]

Purely segmented demos could be interesting as they give a sense of human possibilities on a particular run, as could runs that do not employ building or only minimal building for tricks. Skill and effort are still needed if the demo is to be interesting imo - whether the demo is aiming for pure speed or a particular aesthetic, it should still try to do that as well as possible. Personally, I've done segmented runs as a means to devise a route for a map but I didn't put a whole lot of effort into them and never found any reason to release them instead of just trying for a single-segment attempt.

[Kotzugi]

There you go - I didn't even get my terminology right.

4shockblast said:

Purely segmented demos could be interesting as they give a sense of human possibilities on a particular run, as could runs that do not employ building or only minimal building for tricks. Skill and effort are still needed if the demo is to be interesting imo - whether the demo is aiming for pure speed or a particular aesthetic, it should still try to do that as well as possible. Personally, I've done segmented runs as a means to devise a route for a map but I didn't put a whole lot of effort into them and never found any reason to release them instead of just trying for a single-segment attempt.

To be honest, in my example, it was more like to see what kind of time I could be aiming for, given a "perfect" run (assuming the route etc. is the best). It would of course be a different ball game if I actually competed against other runners using segmented runs.

On the other hand, I guess it may not necessarily be the best route for a single-segment run, as you could have a much riskier approach with the multi-segments?

[vita]

Red-XIII did some segmented only runs. Would be interesting to see Doom 2 done this way (but only 1 segment/map, perhaps).

[4shockblast]

Kotzugi said:

To be honest, in my example, it was more like to see what kind of time I could be aiming for, given a "perfect" run (assuming the route etc. is the best). It would of course be a different ball game if I actually competed against other runners using segmented runs.

On the other hand, I guess it may not necessarily be the best route for a single-segment run, as you could have a much riskier approach with the multi-segments?

Yeah, you could take more aggressive strats and optimize more with segments, but it would still be theoretically achievable humanly, which is what makes it potentially interesting to me as opposed to slowmo or pure building. I just personally mostly use it as a way of figuring out a route for a run before doing it single-segment because if I have to take a break from a demo, having a segmented run to look back at for my old strats is always handy.

[Kotzugi]

4shockblast said:

I just personally mostly use it as a way of figuring out a route for a run before doing it single-segment because if I have to take a break from a demo, having a segmented run to look back at for my old strats is always handy.

I suppose this is an advantage over load and save, although I've never had to take a break long enough to forget what I was supposed to be doing. If that day comes, I'll know what to do. :)