concensus on monster difficulty

[raymoohawk]

do you agree with the consencus? personally i think that the danger levels / annoyingness of monsters like the archvile or lost soul are very overstated. while monsters like the specter are really underestimated. i still agree that hit scanners are first priority tho

[scifista42]

raymoohawk said:

do you agree with the consencus?

What (do you think) is the consensus exactly?

[Maes]

Personally, I find those pesky Zombies to be far more dangerous than Archviles. You do know when you are under attack by an Archvile, what with the flames and all, but you never know when a zombie is gonna sap that last 15 HP off your health with a single, silent, well-placed shot from across the map.

[Spectre01]

Might want to present the so-called "consensus" first m8. Archviles, Pain Elementals and Chaingunners generally have a bigger effect on kill priority, more so than other enemies.

[Maes]

The last time any "concensus" was seeked, it was that spawning on a map trapped in a tiny room with 50 cyberdemons was pretty damn difficult. And even then, some might still express doubts.

[Chezza]

Perhaps a proper way to compare monster difficulty is to introduce them to first time players. Are strategies against said monsters difficult to produce on first time encounters? Do they cause panic for these players? Are the consequences for not adapting fast enough severe? If we were to use the Archvile as an example then I would say it is difficult. It's not exactly easy to dispose of via sloppy playing. You got to be on the move, make quick decisions and plan the next step ahead.


Of course it also comes to the situation in which the player encounters the enemy. As experienced doomers we already know how to handle most situations before even coming across them, resulting in a clouded understanding on what's truly difficult.

It's safe to say anything Revenant, Pain Elemental and above us more difficult.

[MrGlide]

It also matters what source port you play on, as spectres are far easier to see with gl settings on, not to mention hitbox differences.

[40oz]

There are too many variables involved to limit difficulty to the species of monster. The quantity of monsters, the amount of space provided, the weapons carried, the amount of ammunition for those weapons, the fighting relationships of surrounding monsters, the health and armor status of the player etc. all contribute heavily to the equation.

An easy example is when a player has 100% health vs. when a player has 60% health. An archvile becomes 100% harder when the number of hits the player can take changes from 2 to 1.

[kb1]

40oz said:

There are too many variables involved to limit difficulty to the species of monster. The quantity of monsters, the amount of space provided, the weapons carried, the amount of ammunition for those weapons, the fighting relationships of surrounding monsters, the health and armor status of the player etc. all contribute heavily to the equation.

An easy example is when a player has 100% health vs. when a player has 60% health. An archvile becomes 100% harder when the number of hits the player can take changes from 2 to 1.

All very true. Hit scanners on the ground with rockets nearby, vs. hit scanners in tall towers with the double barrel.

Play testing is the only way to accurately judge monster difficulty, and the metric to use is "monster difficulty, in this room, in this level, (in this port, with these settings), with this amount of health, armor, weapons, and ammo".

Maybe using a good bot, like AutoDoom, could provide a more consistent measurement of difficulty, as it would play the level the same each time.

[Maes]

Even a bunch of zombies, if placed inside towers at a breakneck height (beyond even Y-shearing freelook range) and shooting through narrow slits while giving the player just a SSG and no armor can be a quite frustrating experience.

As it has already been said, Doom is so flexible that it can range from the player mowing down 1000s of monsters with ease (typical slaughtermap setup), to having to plan his every step and shed black, bitter tears of regret for each (scarce) bullet he needs to fire and get super-tense and actually feel himself HURTING inside for every tiny little scratch or bullet graze Doomguy might receive, as he treads through narrow, dark corridors.

[baja blast rd.]

Maes said:

mowing down 1000s of monsters with ease (typical slaughtermap setup)

Huh?

[Ancalagon]

rdwpa said:

Maes said:

mowing down 1000s of monsters with ease (typical slaughtermap setup)

Huh?

Can we not turn this thread into this?