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GoatLord

How will id handle a Hell on Earth sequel?

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There's an easy way to handle this, have the Hell part of the Hell on Earth equation completely break the fabric of reality so that, like the original Doom II, they somewhat resemble locations but are so corrupted and twisted enough that it's not completely recognizable.

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I'd say they shouldn't stop at Earth. They already have the great gameplay and graphics, right? They should focus more on expanding the lore and strengthening the story elements.

In terms of maps, they could have Earth, as maybe a first third of the game, then maybe space maps similar to Orbital, Outbreak, Molten ETC., in the second third, then more varied Hell maps like Boneyard, Argent Breach, Ritual, ETC.

As for the story, I would like them to extend the lore they introduced in this game. EX. Who is the wretch who shall not be named? What did he do? Did he spare the Doom Slayer? What happened to the Elite Gaurds? Why does Olivia Pierce and Samuel Hayden think gives them the need to give them a kill switch for them? Maybe they could extend the lore about those multiplayer armors. Who are the Bounty Hunters? Are they trying to kill the Doom Slayer? Who is the Cultists? Did they live in Argent D'nur? Where they already deformed and were shuned, or is it because of hell's influence? Did they help the demons take over Argent D'nur, or did they really go out without a fight like the Codex says they did?

Then in terms of weapons and enemies, they could, during the earth section, introduce the basic weapons (Pistol, Shotgun, Burst rifle, Grenade Launcher, ETC.), and basic enemies (Possesed enemies, Imp, Hell Knight, ETC.), grenades, ETC.

Then in the space part, they introduce more techy stuff (Plasma Rifle, Static Cannon, Lightning gun, ETC.), then more advanced enemies (Pinky, Revenant, Mancubus, ETC.), and start introducing more advanced equipment (Hologram, Kinetic Mines, Lateral thrusters, Teleporter, ETC.)

Then, in the hell section, they would go all out. Let the other parts be a small taste of what to come in the climax of the game. Add all the powerful weapons like the Gauss Cannon, BFG, Reaper, Dark Matter gun, (From Quake 4), and super shotgun, maybe introduce rune trials, all that crap only just to throw you off with everything hell has to offer including sneak attacks, keycard hunting, all those enemies like the Cyber Mancubus, Cacodemons, Barons of Hell, Arachnotrons, and Spectres.

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Ape Hex said:

Id is still working on dlc, quake, after launch support for quake.


I got to say this, Quake Champions would not delay the development of a Doom 5. The Quake games have a different team working on them led by Tom Willits, and Doom is worked on by a team led by Hugo Martin.

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DeadSimple said:

I'd say they shouldn't stop at Earth. They already have the great gameplay and graphics, right? They should focus more on expanding the lore and strengthening the story elements.

In terms of maps, they could have Earth, as maybe a first third of the game, then maybe space maps similar to Orbital, Outbreak, Molten ETC., in the second third, then more varied Hell maps like Boneyard, Argent Breach, Ritual, ETC.

Then in terms of weapons and enemies, they could, during the earth section, introduce the basic weapons (Pistol, Shotgun, Burst rifle, Grenade Launcher, ETC.), and basic enemies (Possesed enemies, Imp, Hell Knight, ETC.), grenades, ETC.

Then in the space part, they introduce more techy stuff (Plasma Rifle, Static Cannon, Lightning gun, ETC.), then more advanced enemies (Pinky, Revenant, Mancubus, ETC.), and start introducing more advanced equipment (Hologram, Kinetic Mines, Lateral thrusters, Teleporter, ETC.)

Then, in the hell section, they would go all out. Let the other parts be a small taste of what to come in the climax of the game. Add all the powerful weapons like the Gauss Cannon, BFG, Reaper, Dark Matter gun, (From Quake 4), and super shotgun, maybe introduce rune trials, all that crap only just to throw you off with everything hell has to offer including sneak attacks, keycard hunting, all those enemies like the Cyber Mancubus, Cacodemons, Barons of Hell, Arachnotrons, and Spectres.

I had imagined a similar progression in Doom 5, but with a few differences:
Firstly, I think that all the weapons should be introduced before the final third of the game. Leave the BFG to be found in the last level before Hell, and all the rest to be found around halfway through. If the weapons would keep the modification/upgrade system, they need to be introduced early so you have at least some time to get their enhancements. Such systems are typically meant to be completed through New Game+, but it would be jarring if you had little opportunity to use Gauss Cannon's mods because you got it in the last hour of the game or so. Especially Super Shotgun should be acquired earlier - sure, it is powerful as all hell, but there are plenty of guns with bigger DPS. I would place it somewhere around the first third mark - as you have pointed out, there are more hi-tech weapons that warrant later placement (especially Lightning Gun - that one should probably be the last "standard" gun to be found, before only BFG). If the Crucible would be usable however, it should be the endgame-exclusive weapon, considering how powerful it should be according to all the hype it received in Doom 4.
To the next point: Rune Trials should start appearing earlier as well. They do not need too much explanation anyway (demons brought them to mortal realm for some reason), and introducing them only in Hell would damage gameplay consistency. They give significant passive powers, so it would be better to encounter RTs early enough to be familiar with them well before the game's climax.
Lastly, new monsters. I would like the missing monsters (Pain Elementals, and Arachnotrons you mentioned) to return, and to see the Doom 4's Multiplayer-only ones (Prowler nad Harvester) be encountered as well. Especially the Prowler has the potential to become a highly-threatening and fresh foe. His speed should be offset by low health.

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shotfan said:

Especially the Prowler has the potential to become a highly-threatening and fresh foe. His speed should be offset by low health.


Yes, he could. But, if Id Software adds it, let's hope they don't do what they did too much back in Doom 3 and just make a bunch of variations on the Imp. The prowler looks like he could just be one of those variations, and it shouldn't.
Also, yes I agree that the progression system should stop after the second third/third fourth. It kind of makes sense for Rune Trials to be on UAC stations, they did steal a bunch of artifacts. Even Doom 4 stopped introducing things after the Necropolis.
Also, I kind of changed my mind. The maps shouldn't really be split into three parts. That reason alone was why I got tired of Doom 1 quickly. In Doom 4, you start out on the Mars surface, which has lots of open plains which, since you only start out with the pistol and the shotgun, it's easy to get sniped. Then, you go inside the UAC, with lots of environmental hazards, like death pits, moving carts, and lots of explosive barrels. Then, you go into the Foundry, with lots of lava and overlapping platforms, which can get you killed easily without getting used to Mantling. Each level has a different challenge.
If we just went with "These levels are on earth, these are in space, and these are in hell." It would get repetitive very fast.

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Of course we do not need another Maggot. Just make Prowler identical to its current form, only AI-controlled. Suddenly, you have a monster with unique behaviour and attacks, one whom will keep you on your toes always. Have you seen such melee sniper anywhere else? In my opinion, Static Cannon was a stroke of genius on id's (or Certain Affinity's?) part, and Prowler is not far off in ingenuity.

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Maybe it would be not really like an Imp, but more like a Pinky. Basically just a faster, weaker Pinky. But how would the harvester work? Maybe it could be a mini boss like the Summoner, that returns health to other demons? Or maybe it could be an upgraded Hell Razer?

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Why change Prowler at all? Leave him as it is. There is no other monster that can cling to walls or ceilings and jump on you in an instant. He would lurk on perches, in caches, or in walls, and attack suddenly at great speed. Imps do not do that, they just jump all over the place - but not at you - while hurling fireballs. Prowlers are melee only, and I imagine they would be a much greater threat due to their speed, strength, surprise factor and (hopefully) cunning. As for stealthily Pinkies, we already have Spectres.

Regarding Harvester, his current form makes him a super Imp, basically - faster, tougher and hits harder with his electroshocks. If he could heal other demons, then why colud not Summoner, the Arch-Vile expy? Maybe Harvester could automatically slow you down if you are in his field of vision (by delivering instant-hit, debilitating electric shocks)? So he could act as a debuffer on you. Seeing that maintaining speed is highly important for staying alive in Doom, such monster would pose a significant and unique challenge.

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shotfan said:

Maybe Harvester could automatically slow you down if you are in his field of vision (by delivering instant-hit, debilitating electric shocks)? So he could act as a debuffer on you. Seeing that maintaining speed is highly important for staying alive in Doom, such monster would pose a significant and unique challenge.

That would work, if it was telegraphed like the Hell Razer (Why I called it a Super Hell Razer in the first place). Having an instant attack would be annoying, in a game where your supposed to keep moving. The only enemy who can pull of being hitscan is the Possesed Security because it's main weakness is it's backside anyway, and it can't attack there. If you couldn't avoid the attack, it would become more frustrating than challenging.

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I was thinking of something like the original Arch-Vile's attack - an autolocking one. So you would need to hide, or stun/kill him during the windup time. On the upside, the attack would not damage you actually, only slow you down.

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Arch-Vile's attack is not fun to taste either, yeah. Well then, this slowdown attack could be an avoidable projectile.

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shotfan said:

Arch-Vile's attack is not fun to taste either, yeah. Well then, this slowdown attack could be an avoidable projectile.

Yeah, just give it the telegraphed electric attack and the charged attack from the playable version, give it some A.I., give it's charged ball a slowdown, and maybe give it a static field attack that does damage over time and knocks you back if you get too close, and it could work very well.

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I think hell on earth would work well ONLY if they had it in an actual ruined "future" city, complete curvy archetecture, floating cars, and a shitton of neon. Otherwise, it's just another drab urban combat FPS.

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Agreed, highly imaginative "futuristic" tech architecture (but not quite techbase) combined with weird abstract "hellishness" could make for an interesting setting. And it needs to be vibrant and colourful like OG Doom and Doom 2016.

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Doom '16 did pretty good with future tech. It felt appropriate to the universe, even if it often relied on reinterpretations of what we have now (but then so did the original Doom). An earth setting would need to maintain this sense of a used cyberpunk future, but while reminding you that you're no longer on Mars. I would love to see forests, business districts, corporate buildings, urban neighborhoods, docking bays for space ships, R&D labs, etc. These locations could potentially look very interesting in the D16 art style.

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Cyberpunk Doom would be great to see. If Hayden was telling the truth, it should look quite decrepit due to the energy crisis, like in the vein of Dead Space or Avatar's behind-the-scenes art. It would be a perfect setting to design intricate levels with lots of verticality, hidden passages, and secrets, as well as complex and ever-changing urbanscape. It would be a blast to go through such a city!

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The problem was, the original Doom 4 was trying to do this, but without any sense of futurism. It ended up looking like an average contemporary post-apocalyptic setting. Very silly artistic choice. What we need to see is a future society that has begun to crumble, not what we have now, but crappy looking.

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Doom 2016 did a good job at showing us a "Golden Age of Tech" setting that had just started to fall apart. The vibrant colours combined with a lot of shiny fanciful tech sold that very well.

A "Hell on Earth" scenario would need to do the same thing essentially: Show a seemingly Golden Age of Technology (colourful, shiny and pretty) brought about by the Argent Energy and all the fancy technological applications that it makes possible. You can show a few cracks though - not everything on Earth has to look pretty (theme variation within the Earth theme), but we need to see something that looks slightly relateable without taking us out of the fantasy by looking too similar to what we know too well from reality.

 

And then, on top of it all, you need Hell's reality messing with it in weird, but cool looking ways. I'm all for a continuation of Doom 2016's "Metal themed Hell", it just needs to evolve a bit.

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Hopefully Hell on earth won't be a series of linear tech buildings and instead be broken down buildings and machinery without too much rubble blocking roads and such.  I think the last thing anyone wants to see is beautiful cities with unpathable rubble littered everywhere so you are funneled into a linear path where you can't explore anything.

I'm a huge fan of helltech and hell converted cities, so it would be awesome if Hell on earth has hell seeping through the very walls and buildings converting everything.  I think the hell conversion should be more extreme the further you progress through the game, ultimately hell would of converted earth soo much that it would be indistinguishable from hell.

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i would be a fan of Hell on Earth if it meant i could leap off the top of a giant skyscraper and annihilate an unsuspecting Cyberdemon or other big brute demon from the fall. that would be cool.

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It'd be fun to hear a few remixes of Doom 2 and TNT tracks next time around. Like Death's Bells, AimShootKill, or Into Sandy's City. It might be hard to blend some of the more weird or experimental songs into the new game's style, but hearing Sandy's City without a harpsichord would just be weird.

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I always liked to imagine how Hell on Earth would have looked realistically, and I imagine it being more or less like those early screenshots but with a lot more blood and carnage and not so bland. There does need to be color lol. The Demons wouldn't come to Earth to make friends, there'd be death and destruction everywhere and we'd be a witness to all of it. Imagine Suburbs from Doom II but this time imagine the map looks like real buildings. You hear gunfire and screaming pretty much constantly. Walking into buildings and homes you come across the unthinkable. It would look like Predator just came through and skinned everyone. Really twisted stuff but that's basically what they did with classic Doom in a lot of places, it's just the engine couldn't do all that fancy stuff. This is the vibe I always get when hearing Hell on Earth and a new Doom would give them the opportunity to do it justice.

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On 11/11/2016 at 10:20 PM, RUSH said:

There shouldn't be hordes of humans running around, or else it will just feel like Call of Duty but with demons.

That has to be the most retarded shit I've ever read in my entire fucking life!

Edited by ATP2555

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As I've said, Earth needs to feel "at home" with Doom's well-established themes (UAC facilities, Mars, Hell). A contemporary look would be inappropriate, yet Doom 2's city maps look very arcane. For this to work I think it would need to find that Blade Runner mix of lived-in yet high-tech.

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On 11/11/2016 at 10:20 PM, RUSH said:

Yeah, the whole "Hell on Earth" thing is an iffy concept. Doom has always been a game of isolation. You're a lone survivor, battling against all odds. Throw earth into the equation and now you're looking at the stupid "resistance" concept that ruined the 2011 version of the game. It just isn't Doom. It lacks the hopelessness. There shouldn't be hordes of humans running around, or else it will just feel like Call of Duty but with demons. They had this problem already, and I don't think there is any way around it. I'd prefer to see id explore alternatives in the future.

What if they kill off all the humans? Maybe a handful survive in other areas but you have no interaction with them whatsoever. Wouldn't that give the doomguy more hatred and make the game feel more helpless? Enforcing the objective to rip and tear?

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I think a good solution might be to pair futuristic cities with Hell breaking through. So you might see some buildings but then have the ground be split open and have platforms like Hell on Doom 2016.

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Going back to ending of the game, Dr. Hayden sent you to somewhere else so that he could continue of the work of harnessing Argent energy to provide power for humanity. The portal to Hell was closed and the chief scientist that made the deal with the demons is dead. You tried killing everything and scouring Hell clean, but I got impression that you didn't kill all of them (Hayden told you that you may be right about the need to kill them all, implying that you hadn't). So, to my way of thinking, if you do want to have a Hell on Earth type plot, maybe this is how you go about it:

 

1. Starting from wherever you end up (whether that be another world or back in Hell or somewhere else), you have to get back to Mars to stop Hayden. Or get your revenge. Or whatever.

2. On your way back, you find out that demons have come from Hell and overrun Earth.

3. You have to go back to Earth and travel to the source of the invasion and stop it.

4. You can only stop the invasion by entering the portal and closing it from the other side (Hell).

 

Perhaps if you start out in Hell, it is actually your efforts to get out that trigger some sort of portal that allows the demons to overrun Earth. So you're essentially fixing the problem that you yourself made. Or maybe the presence of the demonic artifacts in this plane draws the demons to them. However you want to go about it, the demons are here.

 

There's also nothing to say that Doom 5 (or whatever we want to call it) has to follow the Hell on Earth model. There were elements in Doom 2016 that were not in the original game (Argent energy, the Cyberdemon actually being imprisoned within the facility, people traveling TO Hell in order to recover artifacts, etc.), so it is completely reasonable to have Doom 5 contain elements that were not in the original Doom 2. So, the plot of the game COULD be completely different and still encompass the general things that people have talked about in this thread.

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Ya, I think putting an emphasis on verticality would be really cool. They would have to find a way to mix it up quite a bit throughout the game, for aisthetic and pacing pourposes.

 

On 4/7/2017 at 7:56 PM, Viscra Maelstrom said:

i would be a fan of Hell on Earth if it meant i could leap off the top of a giant skyscraper and annihilate an unsuspecting Cyberdemon or other big brute demon from the fall. that would be cool.

@MrGlide, @Viscra Maelstrom

Verticality and climbing is cool and jumping off tall buildings on to large demons is cool, but I think you'd have to be careful to avoid Doom 5 just becoming Assassin's Creed in Praetor armor.

 

On 4/5/2017 at 11:33 AM, NEANDERTHAL said:

I think hell on earth would work well ONLY if they had it in an actual ruined "future" city, complete curvy archetecture, floating cars, and a shitton of neon. Otherwise, it's just another drab urban combat FPS.

So, Blade Runner with demons and the Doomslayer?

 

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