Specific Things in Doom that annoy you

[galileo31dos01]

Seriously I'm the last answer? People should complain more... 

 

Anyway, to add one more thing to my list, it really annoys me when a two-shot goes wrong and not because of me but because of, I'm going to assume it's blockmap bug, because how on hell a point blank shot doesn't push and/or make the tall guy flinch if it wasn't neutered by blockmap. Therefore most times when this happens, I eat the "fourth" rocket, which is actually the first one of a second volley. Perhaps more experienced players can corroborate this to me. 

[42PercentHealth]

Yeah, blockmap can do that.

[Killer5]

Fighting pain elementals without a rocket launcher.

[42PercentHealth]

2 minutes ago, Killer5 said:

Fighting pain elementals without a rocket launcher.

Dude, you take masochism to a new level.

[VGamingJunkie]

Wouldn't a Rocket Launcher make fighting Pain Elementals riskier since their payload can charge up to you and make the rocket explode close to your face?

[GarrettChan]

7 minutes ago, Killer5 said:

Fighting pain elementals without a rocket launcher.

Probably you need to without Chaingun, Plasma Rifle, BFG also? ;P

[Ichor]

2 hours ago, MetroidJunkie said:

Wouldn't a Rocket Launcher make fighting Pain Elementals riskier since their payload can charge up to you and make the rocket explode close to your face?

You say that like it's a bad thing.

[Rosh Fragger]

Non escapable lava/nuke pits anyday!

[Juza]

Revenants.

[Summer Deep]

Unforgiving timed lift or door gimmicks which don't have even half a second of 'slack' built into them. Trying thirty times to negotiate four right-angled turns in 3.5 seconds is not my idea of fun....

[VGamingJunkie]

On 11/22/2017 at 4:39 AM, Rosh Fragger said:

Non escapable lava/nuke pits anyday!

Even worse when it's combined with narrow edges that make falling in easy. -cough-Chasm-cough

 

(Fun fact, the GBA version of Doom II actually adds a teleporter into that pit so even they realized it was a douchy move)

[Maes]

On 11/22/2017 at 7:39 AM, MetroidJunkie said:

Wouldn't a Rocket Launcher make fighting Pain Elementals riskier since their payload can charge up to you and make the rocket explode close to your face?

Actually, at medium range, a RL is the best way to quickly dispose of  PE groups if one knows what he's doing, even better than a BFG (those pesky Lost Souls tend to soak up the tracers). It takes some balls and precision to make it work.

[scifista42]

Yeah, if you keep running sideways while firing rockets, or if the PE is far enough that even if he started his attack as soon as you pressed the fire button, the spawned Lost Soul would meet your rocket far enough from you so the splash damage wouldn't hurt you, then RL is good against PEs.

[VGamingJunkie]

I usually just spam the Plasma Rifle when I see the Pain Elementals or, if there's not a big crowd, I'll cheese them behind corners since their spawning is a form of attack, they won't do it unless they can see you.

[42PercentHealth]

1 hour ago, MetroidJunkie said:

I usually just spam the Plasma Rifle when I see the Pain Elementals or, if there's not a big crowd, I'll cheese them behind corners since their spawning is a form of attack, they won't do it unless they can see you.

That's not cheese, that's tactics. ;-)

[VGamingJunkie]

I thought cheesing meant bobbing out of corners. XD

 

The guy in the third Plutonia Experiment demo actually utilizes it (1 minute and 12 seconds in):

 

 

[Leia]

When I'm tapping a switch (iPod touch) and whatever weapon I'm holding goes off instead.

[SleepyVelvet]

When a Cyberdemon fires a "fourth" rocket immediately after the third.

[Dragonfly]

Just had that numerous times in a row. Always happens when I'm streaming, it seems! :P

[riderr3]

When mancubus shooting through the walls, you know what I am talking about.

[Wadviro_]

Lost souls. Just lost souls.

[seed]

Heavy Lost Souls attacks, Pain Elementals, and the occasional frustrating level structure.

[unkind]

After playing thru zone300 just now, I have to say im really, really sick of hell barons/hell knights.

 

Extremely boring and easy to kill, least interesting monster in the game by far. Maybe it's just the way the map author use them, though.

 

Also only having SG/SSG and minigun ammo for 85% of the WAD, like why, let me use the rockets and plasma god damn you.

 

/rant

[Danlex]

Maps with a lot of damaging floor.

 

Example: Kama Sutra map 28

[Spectre01]

Had to do a search to see if I complained about this before here, but seriously: shorttics while recording -cl9 demos. I'm no speedrunner or anything, but there are instances where I want to record a casual UV-Max and have to deal with the game input feeling completely different. And this affects only one very popular format where you have no other option. Yes, I know you can get used to it, just like the 35FPS cap and 320x200 resolution, but those are not things I enjoy. Now if only cl-1 didn't have broken infighting mechanics.

[baja blast rd.]

When people criticize maps in the 'gauntlet combat' idiom for having 'predictable traps' centered around keys/weapons/powerups/switches/etc. This comes up with Sunlust a lot for instance. And it's people not getting it.

 

By and large, these aren't traps. They aren't intended as traps. Nor are they meant to be surprising. 

 

They are convenient and telegraphed means of starting encounters -- encounters that would often be too lethal to survive on the first attempt if they were true surprises. 

 

The "suspense factor" during quiet moments while FDA-ing maps in the gauntlet style is not in being prepared to thwart surprises with the appropriate reflexive responses. It's in knowing something harsh is coming, but still being unsure of survival. It's in pre-calculating a means of defeating encounters: reading the environment, being cognizant of the mapper's general habits and approach towards encounter design, factoring in some risk-reward, and putting together the basis of a plan that might succeed on the first attempt. It's only then in combining that with the appropriate on-the-fly reactions and judgment needed to get the encounter off on the right foot.

 

So this type of suspense will be lost on a playing approach that doesn't acknowledge "strategy" as a thing in Doom, and spams saves/loads with an eye towards eventually RNjesusing one's way through all of the encounters. 

Edited December 31, 2017 by rdwpa

[Nine Inch Heels]

.-*-.Angry ramble/vent WARNING.-*-.

 

In the most recent weeks, I have had some "discussions" about the "play as you want mindset", and it's gotten to the point where I seriously need to take some time to put down my thoughts on this, because, even if it didn't affect me because of a map that I made, I never had much love for this kind of "ideology", for lack of a better term, and I think many folks know this by now.

 

The thing is, in lots of maps, things like crouch/jump and freelook/-aim don't have that much of an impact. In fact I couldn't think of any iWAD map that would play different with or without free-aim, at least not in a way that would be strikingly obvious. The problem is, people seem to think that this applies to pWADs in just the same way, and that's simply not true. The moment things like jump or freeaim allow for sequence breaks, some of which can actually mess with a map's intended behaviour to the point of breaking parts of it, this "do as thou wilt" attitude isn't applicable anymore. And the worst thing about it: People seem to absolutely not give a single solitary fuck about it, because the people who think that stuff should ideally run with any mod, with any .exe, with any sort of settings, just don't give a shit about the mapper's ideas and goals. To make matters worse, some of them have this odd habit of patting themselves and one another on the back for their stance, and that simply makes me want to vomit all over my keyboard at the moment, hence this rant.

 

The thing that aggravates me so much is that players seem to insist on being able to always use their favourite port with their favourite settings etc yadda yadda, and I'm not actually guilt free in this regard myself within certain boundaries: For example excluding PrBoom+ from working with maps just because somebody wanted to use textures as flats, and nothing else, is something I tend to find suboptimal. In hindsight however, I shouldn't give a damn about situations as this to begin with. Suffice to say, I learned my lesson there, and also I digress, so back to the topic at hand.

 

The kind of stuff I like to play and design isn't what most people usually play or enjoy. I like slaughter fights, I like tricky or gimmicky platforming within reason, or challenge style encounters, I like taking my time to think of setups and scenarios which are difficult for particular reasons. As it stands, lots of these ideas I put down in the editor can be either broken or trivialized by things like free-aim. For example, when I put a vile on a platform and shield it with some HKs to get more mileage out of it, free-aimers could simply ignore the HKs and snipe the vile (if they get it in their FOV, which they probably will, because I don't like "hiding" important monsters), which will have a significant impact on how the encounter plays. And when I build something that is supposed to be somewhat tight, I usually spend a good amount of time on playtesting and tweaking that fight. Some fights I made I tested for several hours before they played how I wanted them to play. And here's where the "play how you want faction" comes in, shits on the efforts a mapper made, literally disrespects the amount of time that's been spent on tweaking and balancing that fight, and on top of that, should a mapper dare voice their opinion on this matter, some of those players actually say that mappers could just design their stuff with all these features and whatnot in mind, or that maps are supposed to offer as many options as possible, or that the mapper's objective has to be this and that and whatnot. Just to put this in perspective: Someone spends a good chunk of their spare time on making something that they think is fun, then they choose to share it with others for free, only to find themselves exposed to a mindset that cares nothing for the mapper's vision of gameplay, and at times even aesthetics... And year after after year there's discussions about playing maps the intended way, topics like pistol starts, "infinitely tall monsters yay or nay" and whatnot get debated ad nauseam, because somehow people seem to think they know better than the mapper, or their POV matters more than the mapper's ideas and goals and so on and so forth... Case in point: If you think you're in a position to tell a mapper that their stuff should be played however you want, instead of respecting the mapper's vision, you have some thinking to do, because what you really say is that you don't accept somebody else's ideas, and instead they have to accept yours. That strikes me as selfish, and it's got nothing to do with being "tolerant".

 

If you can't tell by now: My impressions is that this attitude of tolerating everybody's needs and wishes is a bit too one sided. Why do I have to accept, or even worse accommodate the desires of people who play that stuff, when said people openly admit that they don't care about the respective mapper's ideas, just because...? Sure, I can write a mapinfo that disables free-aim, for example, but eventually people will just go to the console and override the mapinfo, so why make an effort that doesn't do anything at all to begin with? Not to mention how wonderfully tolerant and respectful it is of people when they just override the mapinfo that somebody put in place, because reasons.

 

TL;DR: I don't know what the bloody TL;DR is, aside of maybe stopping to demand people accept your way of playing maps, and isntead accept the mapper's intent a little more instead.

[42PercentHealth]

1 hour ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

And here's where the "play how you want faction" comes in, shits on the efforts a mapper made, literally disrespects the amount of time that's been spent on tweaking and balancing that fight, and on top of that, should a mapper dare voice their opinion on this matter, some of those players actually say that mappers could just design their stuff with all these features and whatnot in mind, or that maps are supposed to offer as many options as possible, or that the mapper's objective has to be this and that and whatnot. Just to put this in perspective: Someone spends a good chunk of their spare time on making something that they think is fun, then they choose to share it with others for free, only to find themselves exposed to a mindset that cares nothing for the mapper's vision of gameplay, and at times even aesthetics... And year after after year there's discussions about playing maps the intended way, topics like pistol starts, "infinitely tall monsters yay or nay" and whatnot get debated ad nauseam, because somehow people seem to think they know better than the mapper, or their POV matters more than the mapper's ideas and goals and so on and so forth... Case in point: If you think you're in a position to tell a mapper that their stuff should be played however you want, instead of respecting the mapper's vision, you have some thinking to do, because what you really say is that you don't accept somebody else's ideas, and instead they have to accept yours. That strikes me as selfish, and it's got nothing to do with being "tolerant".

Well put!! I couldn't have said it better myself!

 

I can personally say that I used to be of the "anyway you wanna play it" mindset, but I've eventually realized that breaking a map by effectively changing the rules of play really is disrespectful of the mappers. To use stuff like jumping or freelook to beat a vanilla or Boom map would be like solving a Rubik's Cube by removing and rearranging all the stickers.

 

Besides that, using this kind of "cheese" to beat fights is also cheating yourself as a player -- the mapper designed an encounter for you to experiment with, learn from, and overcome. By breaking the fights, you forfeit both the opportunity to grow in your skills as a player, and the bragging rights.

[dpJudas]

I'm sorry, but I play maps the way I find them most fun regardless of what the original designer had in mind. For example, it is very common to slowly kill me by attrition by only placing a few rare health packs around on a map. That's not how I want to play Doom, so whenever my health reaches 10% and I'm unable to find some health packs I bring up the console and type "give health". Likewise if you don't give me a fun weapon almost immediately, I'll type idkfa.

 

Now, with that said, you as a mapper is in no obligation to design your maps to work with my behavior. Your idea that I'm being "disrespectful" more or less amounts to me getting pissed if you disable bloom in GZDoom. After all, I liked bloom and added it, so now everyone playing a source port I worked on should now have bloom forced down their throat? I'm sorry, the world doesn't work that way. I get that I destroy part of your vision by cheating, but at that point the vision you're trying to impose on me isn't what I am looking for. Effectively you're asking me to quit the mod instead - because I already decided I didn't enjoy the setup you chose for the map. At least by partially cheating I get to play something a bit closer to what I'm looking for.

[Nine Inch Heels]

5 minutes ago, dpJudas said:

For example, it is very common to slowly kill me by attrition by only placing a few rare health packs around on a map. That's not how I want to play Doom, so whenever my health reaches 10% and I'm unable to find some health packs I bring up the console and type "give health". Likewise if you don't give me a fun weapon almost immediately, I'll type idkfa.

So you'd rather cheat instead of turning down the difficulty? Because that's what this looks like to me.