Calico

[axdoomer]

kb1 said:

and the second to last is a bit on the purplish side.

I wouldn't change it, but the red color blend is really ugly. The sky is pink and the rest is purple-ish, personally I think it looks bad.

[Quasar]

kb1 said:

Your color blends are very "rich", much more so than PC vanilla. The last shot looks like true green which is absent in the Doom palette, and the second to last is a bit on the purplish side. Though, I have to admit, it looks nice :) Not sure I'd change it. Heh, you're getting into the fun stuff, now, huh? I have a feeling that your code will work better than the original. Go for it, man.

These effects should be as close as practical to the actual console's output, as the chroma offset is done in CRY using the values written to the "shadepixel" memory location. Any practical difference is thanks to the color gamut of your output device.

[Quasar]

Might as well show the invuln effect too, which I discovered is similar to the blue hue used in the GBA version:


Berserk uses a brief dark orange shading that fades away after a few seconds, but I don't have a shot of it currently.

All that's left now is sound and additional control capabilities.

[Blastfrog]

Quasar said:

All that's left now is sound and additional control capabilities.

Don't forget demo synchronization.

[kb1]

Quasar said:

These effects should be as close as practical to the actual console's output, as the chroma offset is done in CRY using the values written to the "shadepixel" memory location. Any practical difference is thanks to the color gamut of your output device.

Maybe I missed your point, but this is the device I look at at least half of my Doom stuff, and, man those are some rich colors! Still, though, it's kinda neat to see Doom shaded that way. The status bar is dead on, though.

[VGA]

kb1 said:

Maybe I missed your point, but this is the device I look at at least half of my Doom stuff, and, man those are some rich colors! Still, though, it's kinda neat to see Doom shaded that way. The status bar is dead on, though.

Your usage of the word "though" is confusing.

[Quasar]

My point is that it's accurate to the console and your earlier messages seemed to indicate you thought otherwise.

[kb1]

Quasar said:

My point is that it's accurate to the console and your earlier messages seemed to indicate you thought otherwise.

Ah, interesting. Sorry for the mix-up. I've never seen the console :) I was comparing the colors with PC Doom. Wow, they chose basically some straight-up primary and secondary colors blends! It's a really unusual, but fresh look at Doom scenes. Very cool!

Now, on to a serious question: You know how we've got BDIFFs that allow us to take, say, a PC Doom v1.9 and convert it to, for example, a PC Doom v1.2? What are the legalities for doing something like that with PC Doom to Jag Doom? Is that legal?
(I'm not asking for any warez - I am honestly curious if that's a legal thing to do, or, if not, how to purchase, and convert that into jagdoom.wad.)

I obviously don't own JagDoom, and probably cannot read the ROMs, so what other options are available? How would I go about converting a purchase into a file Calico can load?

by the way, I just read the GitHub page - sorry about your cat, man, that's a shame.

[Quasar]

kb1 said:

Ah, interesting. Sorry for the mix-up. I've never seen the console :) I was comparing the colors with PC Doom. Wow, they chose basically some straight-up primary and secondary colors blends! It's a really unusual, but fresh look at Doom scenes. Very cool!

Now, on to a serious question: You know how we've got BDIFFs that allow us to take, say, a PC Doom v1.9 and convert it to, for example, a PC Doom v1.2? What are the legalities for doing something like that with PC Doom to Jag Doom? Is that legal?
(I'm not asking for any warez - I am honestly curious if that's a legal thing to do, or, if not, how to purchase, and convert that into jagdoom.wad.)

I obviously don't own JagDoom, and probably cannot read the ROMs, so what other options are available? How would I go about converting a purchase into a file Calico can load?

by the way, I just read the GitHub page - sorry about your cat, man, that's a shame.

Such a patch would need to contain virtually the entire Jaguar IWAD since it stores almost everything in different formats, uses LZSS compression, and has big endian layout for most data structures. I don't think it'd really be legal at that point.

As for Nikki that was quite a while ago and I have two new cats to keep me company now, but I'll of course be commemorating her passing on the 15th. Maybe I'll have a beta release ready by then if I get sound going fast enough.

[Blastfrog]

Quasar said:

Such a patch would need to contain virtually the entire Jaguar IWAD since it stores almost everything in different formats, uses LZSS compression, and has big endian layout for most data structures.

What about converting the PC Ultimate Doom IWAD to use Jaguar's formats first, then patching it? Does the compression only occur on individual lumps, or does it compress across multiple lumps?

[chungy]

I highly doubt that it's practical nor even possible.

Mind, that binary patches from the community are already pretty clearly illegal (even my own repository of them...), but the hope is that action doesn't come heavily against when the patches are small (doesn't contain most IWAD content) and requires the ownership of one of the IWADs in the first place.

and I'll tell you based on my experience with the master-levels directory in the aforementioned repository, I'm fairly unhappy with the manual (or even scripted) intervention required to convert between vastly different formats. I don't think such a thing is worth it for Jag Doom (if even possible).

[Filystyn]

Quasar said:

Might as well show the invuln effect too, which I discovered is similar to the blue hue used in the GBA version:
http://eternity.mancubus.net/pics/calico_invuln.png

Berserk uses a brief dark orange shading that fades away after a few seconds, but I don't have a shot of it currently.

All that's left now is sound and additional control capabilities.

Man this looks so bad. Hue hue.

[axdoomer]

Filystyn said:

Man this looks so bad. Hue hue.

I like it better than monochrome with the color map bug.

[kb1]

Quasar said:

Such a patch would need to contain virtually the entire Jaguar IWAD since it stores almost everything in different formats, uses LZSS compression, and has big endian layout for most data structures. I don't think it'd really be legal at that point.

I understand.

So, I am going to want to check this out, so I have to ask: How would I go about buying it, what would I buy, and what do I need to do to get a file from this thing I bought, to play Calico? Seriously, I'm clueless about this. Can you explain?

[axdoomer]

kb1 said:

I understand.

So, I am going to want to check this out, so I have to ask: How would I go about buying it, what would I buy, and what do I need to do to get a file from this thing I bought, to play Calico? Seriously, I'm clueless about this. Can you explain?

Just download a ROM and don't buy anything. If you have already bought Doom, then you are morally fine.

[Danfun64]

...Wat?

I'm sorry, but IMO, different ports of games count as different purchases...

[axdoomer]

It's the same content, but the Jaguar port is a downgraded one.

It's always possible to buy a broken game cartridge that doesn't work for a very low price. Then if you download the ROM, it's legal.

If I have the American version of Doom and download the European ROM, is the police going to go after me? I don't encourage people to download it "illegally", but it's two decades old. People may still buy it if it's their moral values.

[Linguica]

axdoom1 said:

It's always possible to buy a broken game cartridge that doesn't work for a very low price. Then if you download the ROM, it's legal.

That's not how copyright works??

[axdoomer]

Linguica said:

That's not how copyright works??

Is owning a ROM even legal in the US?

If you rip your own CD in the US, I'm sure you're probably going to jail. Copyright law are crazy there. Every 25 years, they add 25 years to the time you must wait for a work to become public domain.

[Arctangent]

technically shouldn't it be an ISO

didn't the Jaguar use CDs

[boris]

The CD drive was just an addon, it used cartridges by default.

[Altazimuth]

If it were to have been on the Jaguar CD I doubt a single person here would have managed to play it, due to its scarcity, and also infamously poor design (which leads to the things almost always being broken nowadays, even if you're some sort of magical hardware repair wizard). If you do manage to find one in working condition they tend to command extreme prices, and you can't be certain it'll work for much longer.

All worth it to play such great games as Battlemorph, Highlander: The Last of the MacLeods, and a slew of ports. Well to be fair Battlemorph seems leaps and bounds ahead of Cybermorph, and I'm sure there are a couple other decent games on there, but to me it just doesn't seem at all worth the trouble of getting a working Jag CD and the games needed.

A shame there are no decent emulators for the Jag or Jag CD (that I know of at least).

[Arno]

In 2014, Blzut3 made a source port for Super 3D Noah's Ark. At that time he made an agreement with the copyright holder. The game data files were bundled with the source port and offered as a commercial release on Steam. The profit was divided between the copyright holder and the source port author.
https://www.doomworld.com/vb/everything-else/68725-ecwolf-1-3/

Would a similar approach be an option for Calico?

[Gez]

That seems unlikely; we're talking about Doom here, which is already sold on PC through GOG and Steam. Yes, not the Jaguar version, but you're going to have difficulties convincing id Software (and their owner ZeniMax and their publisher Bethesda) that there's a sufficiently large niche of users interested with playing Jaguar Doom on PC.

If any console port had a chance, it'd probably be PSX Doom thanks to a significantly different (not just dumbed down) experience. And Doom 64 of course since it's basically a whole new game rather than a port.

[Linguica]

I wonder who even "owns" Jaguar Doom. I would assume id does since they made the port themselves? (In contrast to something like 3DO Doom, where I think the whole point was that id sold the rights to a port for that system).

[axdoomer]

Arno said:

Would a similar approach be an option for Calico?

If Calico was released on Steam, I'd buy it.

Gez said:

And Doom 64 of course since it's basically a whole new game rather than a port.

Talking about legality, is Brutal Doom 64 even legal? It comes with every Doom 64 level and ressources.

[kb1]

So, basically, Quasar is announcing and making a port that I, and many others, can't buy something to legally play? I'd also have to buy a ROM burner/reader for that particular type of ROM chip?

Well, good luck Quasar. I hope your port is fun. I wish I could check it out, though :( I'm sure you're making it for your enjoyment, which is cool. But, it looks like only a handful of people are going to be able to check it out, unless they just download a ROM illegally. Yeah, I know: "Hardware's to be sold, software's to be stoled", but it doesn't seem right.

[Gez]

axdoom1 said:

Talking about legality, is Brutal Doom 64 even legal? It comes with every Doom 64 level and resources.

As legal as the Absolution TC; which is to say, technically not but so far we've gotten away with it, largely because it's not commercial.

[Blastfrog]

Though I realize this isn't how copyright works, I think a good ethical compromise for those concerned would be to buy the physical game and then download the ROM, seeing as it's prohibitively expensive, time consuming and risky to attempt ripping the ROM one's self.

That being said, I highly doubt that Zenimax cares about the Jaguar version one iota.

As for the whole Jaguar CD comments, you can bet if they went that route we'd have seen more texture variation, intact boss levels, and in-game music.

[Linguica]

FWIW we will delete any links to Jaguar Doom ROMs, but we're not dumb and we recognize that anyone wanting to find one can do so without too much difficulty.