If you were to remove a Doom II enemy...

[Tracer]

I think something aesthetically similar to the Tchernobog from Blood would have been a good Icon of Sin. One of it's attacks can be summoning other demons.

[Ubik]

Arachnotron.

Doom 2's greatest strength over Doom 1 is that it has a fully fleshed-out mid-tier, rather than jumping directly from Cacodemon to Baron of Hell. And it executes the mid-tier in a number of different ways: Glass cannons (high damage/low HP) in the form of Chaingunners and Revenants; slow tanks in the form of the Mancubus; "mook-plus" enemies in the form of the Hell Knight; and the hellish pest of the Pain Elemental. (The Arch-Vile obviously counts as an upper-tier monster)

So where does the Arachnotron fit in to all of this? It doesn't have a special gimmick, and it doesn't have a "job" that any of the other Doom 2 additions don't do. The only thing it does differently as act as kind of a "mobile turret", but most Doom maps are either too close-quarters for that to be effective, or large enough that other monsters can do that better (like the Mancubus or Chaingunner). Their hitbox is comparatively enormous, they're slow, they have a high rate of pain frames, and their firing delay makes them largely ineffective.

The Arachnotron has cool visuals and sound effects, but it doesn't fill any slot in the gameplay that another monster doesn't do better. Plus, it more or less just looks like a shrunk-down Mastermind. And I ultimately think that's why it's not unique or memorable enough to have made it into another Doom game.

Maybe if they had redesigned both the Mastermind and the Arachnotron so that they had some sort of a queen/drone gameplay element, it'd be more worthwhile to have them, but in the meantime I think it's more or less redundant. I think most map designers think so too, since you see it so infrequently in PWADs.

[joe-ilya]

The arachnotron is a much more competent version than the spider mastermind.

[Maes]

fraggle said:

Chaingunner's hit points / damage delivered are completely mismatched. I'd remove it for that reason, though possibly it could be salvaged somehow.

For that matter, shotgunners have a max damage/health ratio of 1.5 (45/30) for a single shot, pretty much the highest in the game. Zombies are second, with 0.75 (15/20). Mancs have 384/600, and everything else is much far behind.

Imps have a respectable 24/60, while the Revenant is just a tad lower with its 80/300 (16/60) but more dangerous just because of the ridiculously high damage of its single, often homing shot,

[VGA]

fraggle said:

Chaingunner's hit points / damage delivered are completely mismatched. I'd remove it for that reason, though possibly it could be salvaged somehow.

I'd maybe vote to remove the Icon of Sin just because it's a terrible boss.

The Chaingunner is my favourite enemy!

[TheOrganGrinder]

For me, the Baron of Hell is the most likely candidate. The hell knight presents a better balance of endurance vs. threat within the same role, and the beefing up of the mid-to-high tier of the bestiary with creatures like the mancubus and arch-vile renders the venerable Baron largely redundant.

Bonus points if the Baron's superior 'player sighted' sound effect and more colourful graphics can be retained and repurposed for the Hell Knight, though.

[Looper]

Spectre. It's 100% identical to Demon except different palette. Monsters don't even miss them the same way they miss a player with the partial invisibility.

[Aquanet]

I think every non-boss enemy has a useful role to play.

While I'd tinker with cybers, I wouldn't get rid of them. Masterminds, however, have no special role to play, unless you count running up and BFG-hugging them.

Revenants are poetry, man.

[NaturalTvventy]

Revenants. Hands down. I can't believe everyone's not saying Revenants. They're why I quit DOOM II wads more than anything else by far.

[Avoozl]

I can't say I ever liked Revenant's either, but I really wouldn't want to remove them as long as they were used sparingly.

[shotfan]

NaturalTvventy said:

Revenants. Hands down. I can't believe everyone's not saying Revenants. They're why I quit DOOM II wads more than anything else by far.

I feel your pain. Whereas every enemy (sans Mastermind, which is too big and slow to place effectively most of the time in a map) has some purpose - including Revenants - these goddamn agitated skeletons are too frustating. Either too fast or too tough (more inclined to this one). The only other enemy that is more irritating than difficult to deal with for me are the Lost Souls, because they can spam their charge attack like crazy.

[slowtorturepukechamber]

If I HAD to choose, definitely either a Revenant or a Pain Elemental.

Pain Elementals probably more so because they constantly spawn Lost Souls (which are also a pain in the ass).

[axdoomer]

I'd remove the Revenant for two legitimate reasons.

1- It can cause demo desyncs because of how how its missile type is chosen.

2- It height is wrong, so sometimes it's weird because the engine won't aim at its head.

It's still a cool monster though. Its homing missiles and two different attack animations make it a particular monster.

[Pure Hellspawn]

they all serve their purpose but I'd choose HK and either replace enemies with Revenants or Barons depending on the map.

[CyberDemonEmpress]

Arch-vile. I am really sick of their nonsense... Maybe I am just bad at Doom, but they almost always kill me if they are present on a map.

[MTF Sergeant]

I could say, The barons. I was most scared when i see a ton of them!

[Spocks_Beard]

Fucking Pain Elementals. Hate having to divert my attention to them first when engaging enemies, Lost Souls are fine by themselves but having an enemy spawning them isn't that fun.

[Spectre01]

The Revenant's the most interesting/versatile monster in all of Doom. Y'all need to better dodge the homers! The SS Nazi however is only used well when dehacked swapped into another enemy like a Plasma Marine or whatnot. Otherwise he clashes too much to be used as a regular enemy outside of Wolf3D-style maps.

[Agentbromsnor]

For me it would be the Archvile. Especially when playing on harder difficulties it's probably the most unbalanced enemy in the entire roster.

Chaingunners are annoying, for sure, but you can adjust your playing style to them as you would for the other hitscan enemies. Archviles also take a ton of abuse, which is why they're not as satisfying to kill, in my opinion.

[BuuBee]

rileymartin said:

The Revenant's the most interesting/versatile monster in all of Doom. Y'all need to better dodge the homers! The SS Nazi however is only used well when dehacked swapped into another enemy like a Plasma Marine or whatnot. Otherwise he clashes too much to be used as a regular enemy outside of Wolf3D-style maps.

that and the fact they always face towards you when firing despite being able to infight.

[Sargon of Akkad]

None, really.

[Tracer]

BuuBee said:

that and the fact they always face towards you when firing despite being able to infight.

Did the Minor Sprite Fixing Project not fix that?

[roadworx]

Agentbromsnor said:

For me it would be the Archvile. Especially when playing on harder difficulties it's probably the most unbalanced enemy in the entire roster.

Chaingunners are annoying, for sure, but you can adjust your playing style to them as you would for the other hitscan enemies. Archviles also take a ton of abuse, which is why they're not as satisfying to kill, in my opinion.

YES! arch-viles are annoying af, mostly because they just have so much god damn health. if they had around the same HP as a revenant or hell knight, i'd be fine with them.

[sesq]

Out of the Doom 2 monsters, I think Mancubi are the least unique of them. Would also consider tossing out HK instead.

[Trupiak]

Archville. I'm okay with the rest of the enemies, they're balanced, but the archville is just plain annoying, he revives dead monsters so it doesn't matter how many you'll kill because he'll just revive them so he becomes the primary target...

[passiveobserver]

Yeah hell knight or spectre doesn't count, a hell knight is just a baron of hell that's a different color and has fewer hit points and a spectre is just an invisible demon. Maybe one of the types of zombies. You've got the commandos with the machine guns, the shotgun guys and the regular dolts with the 22 caliper guns. Do we need all 3 of them? We've already got imps fulfilling the role of low-level monster that can come at you in large numbers. Maybe get rid of the shotgun guy then, so that there would be the guys with the regular guns, and then the guys with chainguns, and you don't really need an intermediate level between them.

[savagegrant]

passiveobserver: I'd get rid of the Zombiemen before the Shotgun Guy or the Chaingunners. They are weak-as-piss cannon fodder and they fire with peashooters. The only good thing about them is when you gib them with your weapons or exploding barrels. I love exploding barrels!

[shotfan]

passiveobserver said:

Yeah hell knight or spectre doesn't count, a hell knight is just a baron of hell that's a different color and has fewer hit points and a spectre is just an invisible demon. Maybe one of the types of zombies. You've got the commandos with the machine guns, the shotgun guys and the regular dolts with the 22 caliper guns. Do we need all 3 of them? We've already got imps fulfilling the role of low-level monster that can come at you in large numbers. Maybe get rid of the shotgun guy then, so that there would be the guys with the regular guns, and then the guys with chainguns, and you don't really need an intermediate level between them.

Shotgun guys can be a real threat up close, dealing more damage with roughly same rate of attack, and having more accuracy than Troopers (because shotguns, duh). In contrast, Zombiemen are never really intimidating - unless you use the "strength in numbers" argument, but everything becomes stronger this way, except for the Lost Souls and Pain Elementals in Doom (2) (I never got sniped by a Zombieman while at extremely low health). They are pretty much always only a distraction that is quickly taken care of.

[termrork]

never in a million years I will understand why so many people dislike arch-viles... they are so awesome! I mean come on.. it is the by far most creative creature of doom. It's attack is so unique which allows you to handle with skill and practice. I partially admit that the ressurecting all kind of monsters can be annoying, but I think it is the player side which has to go to the offensive to prevent him from doing this and or killing him first so he cannot resurect monsters.

[wallabra]

Stapler said:

a door with health.

A new solution for breachable doors for 2017! Instead of doing ACS bullshit, just put a Baron trapped using monsterblocking lines inside an arch! Done, now you must take heavy weaponry to not get bored crossing this "locked" door! :D

And it's sturdy enough to hold the SWAT guys' breaching shotgun itself, the Hanna-the-Barber Must-Chop-Down Bullet-Case-Eater Door-Unbreaking-III-O-Ton! :D:D:D

Jokes aside, I'd remove the PE. Unless I could tweak it and add some individual lost soul counter to it, similiar to Unreal's ThingFactory. And yes, I'm experienced enough on old UnrealScript, and still experimenting with mapping (which isn't my strong in either engines :P).