I just learned that Sgt. Mark IV has a Patreon.

[Chezza]

I'm not big on the idea. But if I were to consider it then a kickstarter sort of program aimed at a particular promise is more appealing. I know he is capable of delivering but I want to only spend on what I approve of.

[Sharpie]

VGA said:

"Having a Patreon in no way means that I am charging money from my mods by any way. They are all free, and will always be."

He promised that, so I think people should treat this more as a donation to a hobbyist than a subscription to a mod creator to get access to the mods.

Then there would be no drama, too.

This. Patreon isn't a paywall, it's just a monthly donation service. Granted, there are sometimes special perks to high donators, but that's to be expected. I truly prefer PB to BD, but I don't think this is that bad. I'm sure he just wants to forget about the shit he did in the past, and move on.

I'm still not going to pledge, but that's more because I'm a cheapskate than anything else.

[Varis Alpha]

it can be kind of a paywall. i've seen visual artists that has Patreons who purposefully restrict certain aspects of their art, and what you can commission and see from them, to certain tiers of their Patreons. so if you want a specific theme of a picture from them, gotta pledge to that Patreon tier or go elsewhere.

Mark's tiers aren't that excessively restrictive though, and it's cheap enough that you can pay the price for a soda or the price of a bigger lunch if you want. but on the other hand, his reputation doesn't exactly instill me with the greatest desire to support his work, not unless he's showing some major signs of improvement. Brutal Doom 64 just doesn't seem like a good example to convince me of that yet.

[Katamori]

VGA said:

"Having a Patreon in no way means that I am charging money from my mods by any way. They are all free, and will always be."

He promised that, so I think people should treat this more as a donation to a hobbyist than a subscription to a mod creator to get access to the mods.

Then there would be no drama, too.

I have to admit, this is hard to argue with. Maybe even from legal aspects, too - not even talking about morality.

This way, it's perfectly fine, because he made a quasi-collection of other resources in his own way, and shares it for free.

Donation is entirely voluntary at this point, so whatever monetization SGMark does through copyright material is indirect at best.

Not that I want to defend him, but to defend monetizing Doom modding, in general. I'd definitely pay for skillsaw, too - or Esselfortium, for instance, for making great maps.

[dew]

Katamori said:

Donation is entirely voluntary at this point, so whatever monetization SGMark does through copyright material is indirect at best.

But does this make any legal difference?

[Koko Ricky]

There is also the question of whether or not the freedom for people to reinterpret art, particularly in the form of homage and tribute, is more important than the intellectual property rights of the original artist(s).

[Katamori]

dew said:

But does this make any legal difference?

I'm not a lawyer so I have no idea. I can mostly speak about Youtube monetization - certain people allow to use their free resources to use in Youtube videos that are indirectly monetized through ads withing them.

GoatLord said:

There is also the question of whether or not the freedom for people to reinterpret art, particularly in the form of homage and tribute, is more important than the intellectual property rights of the original artist(s).

But, as I said, if people pay voluntarily and/or not for the "product", it's less of an infringement of said properties.

What should be avoided is the misbelief that he made the gfx too, thus giving him the fame for others' intellectual property.

But how can you enforce the avoidance of it? Because I have no idea.

[snapshot]

geo said:

MetroidJunkie said:

What's next, Brutal Doom 3?

Yes please. Suddenly everyone would love Doom 3.

I agree, this would bring Doom 3 back to light again :), Someone please make it happen .

[Bauul]

geo said:

Also while I'm here and the topic is about Mark IV... why do people hate him so much? I don't want to turn the thread into a cesspool but people seem to joke about him being hated, I just have yet to hear a reason why. After mulling through the thread maybe its because Mark and Brutal Doom steal from other mods?

While I wasn't part of the Doom modding community at the time, my understanding is he's a rather divise personality on forums etc. Apparently he holds some rather extreme views unrelated to gaming (e.g. racism etc.) and invited toxicity to the conversations he became part of.

Not any of my own experience (he was banned from the main Doom forums by the time I rejoined the community) just what I gather.

[fraggle]

He's not banned on Doomworld.

[Doominator2]

If I start a Patreon to fund my hookers and booze can I get a thread too?

[everennui]

Doominator2 said:

If I start a Patreon to fund my hookers and booze can I get a thread too?

Don't be jelly. You can make a Patreon, too.

[Doomkid]

Doominator2 said:

If I start a Patreon to fund my hookers and booze can I get a thread too?

Only if you've made a popular wad full of resources from other popular wads or other 2.5D games

[Fuzzball]

Brutal HDoom of course- wait...no thinking about that don't.
I'm sure somewhere somehow somebody has made some kind of SnuffDoom...and I don't just mean vibrating Razor-Dildos either!

[Zed]

This could work for Doomworld: For every WAD released in Wads & Mods subforum, the site receives 1$ to help Ling maintaining the servers.

EDIT: Or maybe at the end of the year, that money gets split between the Cacowards' winners.

[dg93]

everennui said:

What do you guys think of this? Isn't Doom a grand game?

Doom is a grand game, but I believe it's the people of the modding community and the original developers who made it grand.

I'm also not surprised that SGT_MarkIV has a Patreon. He's very well known and has a relative large following on his social media.

[Man of Doom]

FuzzballFox said:

Brutal HDoom of course- wait...no thinking about that don't.
I'm sure somewhere somehow somebody has made some kind of SnuffDoom...and I don't just mean vibrating Razor-Dildos either!

Little bit of trivia:

The artist who made much of Brutal Doom's assets (such as that iconic screen of Doomguy holding a super shotgun and a rifle at the same time) also happens to be heading the development of HDoom (or at least is working on making artistic assets for it).

[dugan]

I like Brutal DOOM, BUT...

Brutal DOOM has glaring bugs that were documented ages ago, and he's yet to fix them even though they now prevent Brutal DOOM from working in GZDoom. I'm not incentivizing such poor performance on his part.

[Reisal]

I'm also surprised he hasn't chimed in on this thread yet.

[Memfis]

Being a notable person like Mark is tough unless you're really strong. Every single post of yours will be scrutinized and potentially documented in the list of things to bitch about, complete with links and saved screenshots. I would keep a low profile and not post much I think.

[JohnnyTheWolf]

Man of Doom said:

Little bit of trivia:

The artist who made much of Brutal Doom's assets (such as that iconic screen of Doomguy holding a super shotgun and a rifle at the same time) also happens to be heading the development of HDoom (or at least is working on making artistic assets for it).

At first, I thought HDoom was a high-definition/remastering project for Doom, which would have been awesome.

But then, I realised it was something else entirely and now I am kind of depressed.

[geo]

Doominator2 said:

If I start a Patreon to fund my hookers and booze can I get a thread too?

One of my Steam friends has quite the scam (on indiegogo). Pay for rent. $450 a month. Then I see this person buying $50 games and sinking hours in them to never get a refund. Maybe they are a struggling reviewer / lets player that can't afford rent, but needs to get the latest new releases for.... work purposes. Perhaps there's something I just don't know about, but on the surface it seems super shady.

[Katamori]

geo said:

One of my Steam friends has quite the scam. Pay for rent. $450 a month. Then I see this person buying $50 games and sinking hours in them to never get a refund. Maybe they are a struggling reviewer / lets player that can't afford rent, but needs to get the latest new releases for.... work purposes.

As long as he gets the money, rather than feeding up my taxes...fine by me.

[Aquanet]

Of all the ways for $ to mingle with Doom modding, this has got to be one of the wiser methods. The content remains free, and it allows people to throw nickels at creators they like.

[Lila Feuer]

MetroidJunkie said:

What's next, Brutal Doom 3?

Honestly Doom 3 could benefit from this, as it's so fucking unbelievably bland already. But I guess by that definition it would be Doom 3 with Doom 2016's gunplay. Sgt. Mark IV could call it 'The Origins of Doomslayer' when Doomslayer was just a humble little marine in a big new scary corporate world.

Spoiler

TFW the first kill on a zombie he rips its head off, shits down its neck then throws the head at another zombie and causes it to explode all while un-normalized and inappropriately loud to begin with SFX drown out the new soundtrack by Andrew Hulshult.

Spoiler

I'm sorry.

[JohnnyTheWolf]

Cyanosis said:

Honestly Doom 3 could benefit from this, as it's so fucking unbelievably bland already.

Yes and no. While I agree it could have more diversity in its environments, I do think its arsenal and monsters have far more personality and memorability than Doom 2016. In fact, I would very much welcome a mod that makes all the Doom 2016 monsters look more like their Doom 3 counterparts.

[RightField]

That's like saying you'd like a nashville country song to be more like detroit house.

[printz]

"has a Patreon" sounds like a guardian angel. I'm glad for him, I hope the angel will smite all haters.

Doom Radio did discuss this questionable habit of having your own Patreon for making game (derivative) mods, previously.

[Gamer With Dignity]

I'll give him a penny.

[Koko Ricky]

The mods are free and the "tip jar" is for fanboys who want to go the extra length to show their gratitude, which I'm sure provides further motivation for Mark to continue modding, which in and of itself is not a paying gig. To me that's living the dream, in a way. I see it less as getting paid to mod and more using donations to further an art form. If he was some spoiled rich kid who really and truly didn't need the extra cash, who just half-heartedly released mods to meet the status quo, then I'd say, that's shitty. Doesn't appear to be the case here.