[v1.5] Doom 64: Retribution

[Voros]

The Retribution episode, which is supposed to merge the gap between Doom 64 and Doom 2016, is what I think makes this different. That, and it works on a commonly used Doom engine.

[MinerOfWorlds]

3 hours ago, jdagenet said:

It's kind of hard identifying what you were trying to do with this. As you previously mentioned, we have Doom 64 EX, GZDoom 64, Brutal Doom 64... What gap does this Doom 64 mod fill that the previous ones don't that hasn't already been done?

This really feels like a watered down Brutal Doom 64, to the enhanced weapon animations to the rebuilt sky boxes to the dynamic lights in the maps, and even then it still isn't accurate. I'm just kind of confused as to what you were trying to do here...

 

Gzdoom 64 and brutal doom 64 are very inaccurate and he has said that doom 64 ex doesn't run well on his computer.

 

What doom 64 retribution does is allow people to mod doom 64.

 

It will be more accurate later on.

[Gerardo194]

6 minutes ago, MinerOfWorlds said:

 

Gzdoom 64 and brutal doom 64 are very inaccurate and he has said that doom 64 ex doesn't run well on his computer.

 

What doom 64 retribution does is allow people to mod doom 64.

 

It will be more accurate later on.

Yes, with ours.;)

[jdagenet]

2 hours ago, MinerOfWorlds said:

 

Gzdoom 64 and brutal doom 64 are very inaccurate and he has said that doom 64 ex doesn't run well on his computer.

 

What doom 64 retribution does is allow people to mod doom 64.

 

It will be more accurate later on.

Fair enough. Considering it's only v1.0 I'll continue to keep an eye on this.

[MinerOfWorlds]

1 hour ago, Gerardo194 said:

Yes, with ours.;)

What?

[Gerardo194]

12 minutes ago, MinerOfWorlds said:

What?

Yes, my brother is working on a Doom 64 for GZDoom (modified version)

Nevander already knows about this.

[Nevander]

14 hours ago, Danfun64 said:

So...any suggestions on how to remove the lag when firing the unmaker?

I don't know what to say. Hate to say but nobody else yet has reported it giving poor performance. Maybe try turning down some settings or turning of dynamic lights? Idk.

 

 

4 hours ago, jdagenet said:

It's kind of hard identifying what you were trying to do with this. As you previously mentioned, we have Doom 64 EX, GZDoom 64, Brutal Doom 64... What gap does this Doom 64 mod fill that the previous ones don't that hasn't already been done?

This really feels like a watered down Brutal Doom 64, to the enhanced weapon animations to the rebuilt sky boxes to the dynamic lights in the maps, and even then it still isn't accurate. I'm just kind of confused as to what you were trying to do here...

Doom 64 EX is the best way to play true Doom 64, but for me it crashes and has weird mouse problems. GZDoom 64 was just awful. Brutal Doom 64 is basically a fork of GZDoom 64, both of which were based off the Absolution TC.

 

Mine however, is ALL. NEW. Everything is practically from the source, the Doom 64 IWAD. I put in a lot of work to remake all the maps in UDMF as accurately as I knew how to do, which means my version is the most accurate to the original game.

 

You say it still isn't accurate, I'd like to see anyone else do it better. You say you're confused what I'm trying to do, but I'm confused why you posted this. If you don't like it, go play EX. I did this because I wanted to play Doom 64 on GZDoom the right way and I was sick and tired of seeing the other piss poor attempts so far.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Gerardo194 said:

Yes, my brother is working on a Doom 64 for GZDoom (modified version)

Nevander already knows about this.

I wish I knew more about it, and I wish you would show off more about it and give your sources out for your modified GZDoom and GZDoom Builder. I noticed in that video a while back you had practically every Doom 64 effect working well and it seemed to be cake for you to do, and yet you keep your changes private. I'm not a fan of closed source, especially if it's holding back a lot of other projects that could take advantage from it.

[jazzmaster9]

5 hours ago, jdagenet said:

It's kind of hard identifying what you were trying to do with this. As you previously mentioned, we have Doom 64 EX, GZDoom 64, Brutal Doom 64... What gap does this Doom 64 mod fill that the previous ones don't that hasn't already been done?

This really feels like a watered down Brutal Doom 64, to the enhanced weapon animations to the rebuilt sky boxes to the dynamic lights in the maps, and even then it still isn't accurate. I'm just kind of confused as to what you were trying to do here...

Its an accurate TC of Doom 64 for GZDoom. whats so confusing?

This is still in v1.1 next iterations will include the D64 Lighting and bug fixes.

 

GZDoom 64 and Brtual Doom were not very accurate, and D64EX has some issues when it comes to obtaining the DOOM64 ROM.

An accurate GZDoom port to of Doom 64 hasn't been done so there.

[Voros]

8 hours ago, Gerardo194 said:

Yes, my brother is working on a Doom 64 for GZDoom (modified version)

Nevander already knows about this.

What happened to the Doom RPG project?

 

Also, props to @Nevander for doing something that should've been done long ago.

[Gerardo194]

9 hours ago, Nevander said:

I wish I knew more about it, and I wish you would show off more about it and give your sources out for your modified GZDoom and GZDoom Builder. I noticed in that video a while back you had practically every Doom 64 effect working well and it seemed to be cake for you to do, and yet you keep your changes private. I'm not a fan of closed source, especially if it's holding back a lot of other projects that could take advantage from it.

 

My brother's work is impressive, isn't it? Soon you will know more about its progress, remember we have promised to release everything but a good work takes its time. I see you are really interested in it because nobody has. But I know everybody will like it because this is a project by G.E.C. for the community 

 

2 hours ago, Voros said:

What happened to the Doom RPG project?

 

Also, props to @Nevander for doing something that should've been done long ago.

Remember we are working on the RPG titles and PSX Doom /Final Doom and Doom 64 Ex for GZDoom. 11 Projects totally.

You will need PSX Cds and our little and simple program to make it run on GZDoom. For Doom 64 you will need the WAD from the Ex with our program.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Gerardo194

[Devalaous]

It'd be nice if people didn't argue about who's port is better all the time when TCs are involved.

 

I'm hoping this gets official IWAD recognition like Harmony and so forth have. I'll be giving this a try later, the dynamic lights and animation updates have me interested. And I'll especially be interested if I can easily change the soundtrack to use the upcoming 20th Anniversary stuff, like ive done with the PSX GZDoom TC

[jdagenet]

12 hours ago, Nevander said:

You say it still isn't accurate, I'd like to see anyone else do it better. You say you're confused what I'm trying to do, but I'm confused why you posted this. If you don't like it, go play EX. I did this because I wanted to play Doom 64 on GZDoom the right way and I was sick and tired of seeing the other piss poor attempts so far.

It appears you got offended by a simple question.

 

I'm not saying you didn't put a lot of work into this, but as long as I've been tracking this I was under the impression that it was going to be a faithful recreation of Doom 64. Instead, I load it up to be introduced to a "Story so far" screen, Smooth Doom weapon animations, and dynamic lights purposely placed in the maps -- enhancements made to the game. If I wanted an enhanced experience I would play either the Absolution or Brutal Doom 64 because this has already been perfected.

 

So now it becomes apparent to me why it's called "Doom 64 - Retribution": it's someone else's spin on an enhanced Doom 64 mod and not a faithful recreation of the classic, which brings me back to my original question: why would I play this enhancement over Brutal Doom 64 or the Absolution if it has already been done before time and time again?

[Gifty]

As far as I know, there still has not been a really reliable Gzdoom port of Doom64, which is the niche this project fills. Brutal 64 runs on Zandronum and Ex is its own engine; with respect to its creator, I'm not convinced the Gzdoom64 found on the Zdoom boards is even a finished or actively maintained project. Finding projects you're not interested in and then devoting paragraphs to just how completely they fail to impress you, the almighty consumer, is not a really great use of anyone's time.

[jdagenet]

2 hours ago, Gifty said:

As far as I know, there still has not been a really reliable Gzdoom port of Doom64, which is the niche this project fills. Brutal 64 runs on Zandronum and Ex is its own engine; with respect to its creator, I'm not convinced the Gzdoom64 found on the Zdoom boards is even a finished or actively maintained project. Finding projects you're not interested in and then devoting paragraphs to just how completely they fail to impress you, the almighty consumer, is not a really great use of anyone's time.

That's strange, I didn't say this mod didn't impress me... Oh well moving on.

 

What exactly do you mean by reliable? All of the previously mentioned ports and mods are reliable in terms of use, Brutal Doom 64 runs on both Zandronum and GZDoom -- for anything to be backwards compatible with Zandronum is pretty unheard of considering how far behind Zandronum is from (G)ZDoom.

 

It seems we're still having issues understanding what I'm asking here so I will try to break it down even more: If I wanted to play original Doom 64 on my PC, I'd load up Doom 64 EX since that works on my Windows 10 system (not sure what the issue is with Nevander's system). If I wanted to play an enhanced version with lots of eye candy features and visual updates, then I'd play the Absolution or Brutal Doom 64.

So now where does that put this mod? It's not a TC as the creator made it out to be and it's currently a watered down Brutal Doom 64. It's really a simple question and there's no reason for people to act childish and say that I'm, "not a really great use of anyone's time".

[Jan]

44 minutes ago, Gifty said:

Finding projects you're not interested in and then devoting paragraphs to just how completely they fail to impress you, the almighty consumer, is not a really great use of anyone's time.

Maybe Nevander should just give him his money back :D

[Gerardo194]

2 hours ago, Devalaous said:

It'd be nice if people didn't argue about who's port is better all the time when TCs are involved.

Well, I might be wrong, but If you're thinking I'm arguing about which projects are better, I just want to let you know I am not. Nevander can make use of our project in the future if he wants and everybody, too.

If you aren't thinking that about me, you have the right to let me know, friend.

[Jan]

1 minute ago, jdagenet said:

If I wanted to play original Doom 64 on my PC, I'd load up Doom 64 EX since that works on my Windows 10 system (not sure what the issue is with Nevander's system). If I wanted to play an enhanced version with lots of eye candy features and visual updates, then I'd play the Absolution or Brutal Doom 64.

Doom64ex was a complete pain in the ass to get running on Linux, it also requires that you obtain the rom from shady sites. Other than that, I also share @Nevander's sentiment that it doesn't run all that great. It's not slow, but something about the way frames are painted on the screen is uncomfortably "jittery", not smooth like I'm used to in gzdoom. Mouse sensitivity is awkward too and there's no mouse forward/backward movement, which I heavily rely on when playing any version of Doom.

 

Absolution suffers from similar problems, is binary only and based on an absolutely ancient port of doomsday which is showing its age.

 

For me Retribution is the first Doom64 TC that looks great, feels great, feels authentic and runs without issues on a well supported modern port, and I for one welcome it.

[Lila Feuer]

@jdagenet GZDoom64 and Brutal Doom 64 use the dumbed down / less authentic designs from The Absolution TC, whereas Doom 64: Retribution is far more faithful to Doom 64 EX. Except Retribution comes with a little extra (but not extravagant) eye candy courtesy of GZDoom, and the versatility of GZDoom will make mapping and modding projects for this a lot easier while using a more authentic recreation of Doom 64, and it will come with extra content in the form of the Retribution episode, and eventually the Absolution TC exclusive maps and Outcast levels. Making it all-in-all a pretty nice package indeed.

Brutal Doom 64 is its own thing, GZDoom64 sucks, The Absolution TC is still an interesting novelty at least for the currently exclusive content but it's horribly outdated, and Doom 64 EX is obviously still its own thing and is the purest you can get for a Doom 64 on PC experience, but modding for it is more convoluted.

[Gerardo194]

Nevander, good job with the project! my brothers and I gave it an eye and It's ok and it gave a good performance.

 

For those who are arguing about which way of playing Doom 64 is better, everybody knows it is on a N64, I respect Doom 64 Ex a lot but it contains a few bugs not presented in the N64 version. That makes it a little away to be  the real Doom 64.

[Nine Inch Heels]

33 minutes ago, Gerardo194 said:

my brothers and I gave it an eye and It's ok

I daresay it's more than just "OK".

 

 

34 minutes ago, Gerardo194 said:

For those who are arguing about which way of playing Doom 64 is better, everybody knows it is on a N64

Because aiming with an analog-stick is so much better than being able to use a mouse and a keyboard?

Don't want to lock horns here, but I generally beg to differ. ;-)

[Gerardo194]

No, my friend, you misunderstood my post. :)

[Nine Inch Heels]

^Glad we cleared that up :-)

[MinerOfWorlds]

3 hours ago, jdagenet said:

That's strange, I didn't say this mod didn't impress me... Oh well moving on.

 

What exactly do you mean by reliable? All of the previously mentioned ports and mods are reliable in terms of use, Brutal Doom 64 runs on both Zandronum and GZDoom -- for anything to be backwards compatible with Zandronum is pretty unheard of considering how far behind Zandronum is from (G)ZDoom.

 

It seems we're still having issues understanding what I'm asking here so I will try to break it down even more: If I wanted to play original Doom 64 on my PC, I'd load up Doom 64 EX since that works on my Windows 10 system (not sure what the issue is with Nevander's system). If I wanted to play an enhanced version with lots of eye candy features and visual updates, then I'd play the Absolution or Brutal Doom 64.

So now where does that put this mod? It's not a TC as the creator made it out to be and it's currently a watered down Brutal Doom 64. It's really a simple question and there's no reason for people to act childish and say that I'm, "not a really great use of anyone's time".

Gzdoom64/zdoom64 and brutal doom 64 changed a lot of the game (like the end of the last tech base level) so doom 64 retribution is much more accurate and the new stuff can be turned off.

[Nevander]

3 hours ago, jdagenet said:

So now where does that put this mod? It's not a TC as the creator made it out to be and it's currently a watered down Brutal Doom 64. It's really a simple question and there's no reason for people to act childish and say that I'm, "not a really great use of anyone's time".

I'd rather say that Brutal Doom 64 is GZDOOM64 with the "brutal" paintjob which a lot of people don't fancy. A LOT of people still love playing Doom in more classic way, so do you really want them to settle for GZDOOM64 if they want to use GZDoom to play it? The closest you could get to playing a proper Doom 64 on GZDoom was actually Brutal Doom 64 prior to my TC's release. Now there's a new and more "original" way to play it. No matter how much you criticize it won't change this fact.

 

Regardless of what you say, it is still a total conversion of the original game. How faithful and accurate is up for you the player to decide from your own opinions. I could take those words out of the project's summary, but then it wouldn't be true that way either. It is accurate and faithful, more so than other attempts. Even with the enhancements I made, it doesn't stray far from the idea. We could sit here and argue about the projects authenticity all day long, but that wasn't what I had in mind when I undertook this project. I expected to finish it and put out a clean, functional, and fresh version of Doom 64 that is playable on GZDoom. If when @Gerardo194's version is done it's better than mine then fine. I'll pack up my bags and leave and you'll finally have your perfect TC.

 

I'm done with this conversation now.

[Erick194]

Well, actually a fight that makes no sence has been unleashed here. First of all, we all know that GZDoom doesn't have all the DOOM64 features. Those who don't like playing DOOM64: Retribution won't earn anything saying it here, besides even I don't know if all of you will like what I'm doing now and to be honest I'm not worried about it.

Keep on with your project, nevander. :)

[DoomKnight1984]

One thing I liked about this conversion is that you don't need a Doom 64 rom to play it. And if my memory serves me correctly, there are still some bugs in the TC version that wasn't addressed such as the lack of switch that warps you to the level with the first artifact. I'm grateful that the core gameplay and feel of the original is present in Nevander's version without the crippling bugs.

[jazzmaster9]

9 hours ago, jdagenet said:

So now where does that put this mod?

It's not a TC as the creator made it out to be and it's currently a watered down Brutal Doom 64. It's really a simple question and there's no reason for people to act childish and say that I'm, "not a really great use of anyone's time".

Uhmm this IS a TC of Doom 64, an accurate(as possible) TC. absolution and Brutal Doom 64 are NOT accurate.

I don't get what is hard to understand.

 

Watered down Brutal Doom 64? Lol. I would like to think of this as a non-bastardized TC of Doom 64.

 

Now you may ask; "why don't you just play D64EX?" Because not everyone has  the original Cartridge and are not comfortable downloading it from the net.

Again, not hard to understand.

 

oh and If that's still not Good enough for you, He made this because he Can. full stop.

Edited April 5, 2017 by jazzmaster9

[Da Werecat]

I'm interested in this, and I think it's exactly what I need to replay Doom 64 again. But I'll wait until the wall gradients are implemented - the game looks rather flat without them.

[Nevander]

13 hours ago, Devalaous said:

And I'll especially be interested if I can easily change the soundtrack to use the upcoming 20th Anniversary stuff, like ive done with the PSX GZDoom TC

Forgot to reply to this earlier in the above drama, but yes changing the music should be as simple as loading a replacement lump. Since you gave me that PK3 of the OGGs, I decided to convert my format to yours. This means if you want to replace the whole soundtrack with anything else, you need only place a music file named D64MUS01 to replace Staging Area for example. This will automatically effect any other map which would use The Madness.

 

Using the upcoming 20th Anniversary Edition will be easy. Get 'em, convert 'em, rename 'em, and load 'em.

 

 

35 minutes ago, Da Werecat said:

I'm interested in this, and I think it's exactly what I need to replay Doom 64 again. But I'll wait until the wall gradients are implemented - the game looks rather flat without them.

I hope to implement them in the near future, but I have a lot of maps to convert still and even my own maps to make. They take priority right now since the original game's maps will get old quick for veterans of Doom 64. Implementing the color gradients will not be easy, doing each map will take a long time but I don't think I'm going to try to get each color's exact RGB unless GZDB comes up with a way to access Doom Builder 64's paste data for the RBG values. Instead I will do what I did originally, this time being able to get both colors instead of needing to make a best guess blend of upper and lower.

 

Another issue is when sector colors change through ACS. I don't think there is a way yet in GZDoom to change these gradient colors once they are set, unless I haven't been paying attention. I will also require a way to "interpolate" between them instead of a quick changes. A few maps use this effect. One final concern is map effects like light glows, flickers, and lightning. How will they work if the sectors need to be 255 brightness for the colors to be correct? Or was this fixed and the sector can be any brightness? Once again I may not have been paying attention to these changes to GZDoom or the material colors. Last I've seen of them was that they were given a spot in a colors tab in GZDB.

[DoomKnight1984]

2 hours ago, jazzmaster9 said:

Uhmm this IS a TC of Doom 64, an accurate(as possible) TC. absolution and Brutal Doom 64 are NOT accurate.

I don't get what is hard to understand.

 

Watered down Brutal Doom 64? Lol. I would like to think of this as a non-bastardized TC of Doom 64.

 

Now you may ask; "why don't you just play D64EX?" Because not everyone has  the original Cartridge and are not comfortable downloading it from the net.

Again, not hard to understand.

 

oh and If that's still not Good enough for you, He made this because he Can. full stop.

 

I'm not much of a fan of the "Brutal" thing conversion that's going on lately with other FPSs. Sure, the thrill of eviscerating your enemies in various, gory ways is satisfying but then the novelty wears off after a few hours. 

 

Besides, those clamoring for "Brutal" versions and forcing them to integrate it for other wads and mods not designed for Brutal Doom/whatever are just asking to be shooed-off.