[v1.3] Doom 64: Retribution

First!

Looks fantastic, I'm really looking forward for this.
Prolly my favorite project in my personal opinion because of my long relationship with D64.

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Nevander said:

Thanks guys! Started on MAP15 Dark Entries.



I just have one question for you, if you plan to add additional monsters from Doom 64 TC or Nightmare Spectre and Nightmare Cacodemon?

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erni94 said:

I just have one question for you, if you plan to add additional monsters from Doom 64 TC or Nightmare Spectre and Nightmare Cacodemon?

To be honest I haven't decided yet. Since I am aiming for the original Doom 64 experience, I doubt those specific ones will be added.

I may, however, include the new enemies that were added with the Outcast levels by Kaiser. They will only appear during this episode though if added.

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Nevander said:

To be honest I haven't decided yet. Since I am aiming for the original Doom 64 experience, I doubt those specific ones will be added.

I may, however, include the new enemies that were added with the Outcast levels by Kaiser. They will only appear during this episode though if added.


You could make it have two modes old/classic and new/remake classic would be the original doom 64 and remake would have doom 64 absolution monsters.

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Nice touch with that exit sign lightning and the sky, I can't wait to see it in motion. So far it looks exactly like D64. Looking forward to this!

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I'm really looking forward to this! I've been a fan of Doom 64 since it was first released in 1997. Wishing you the best.

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Oh man... the blue key/Soulsphere puzzle in Dark Entries was the single hardest thing I've done so far. Scripting that was a serious PITA, but I got it to work exactly like the original. You don't even wanna know how long the code is... when this thing comes out in March you can take a look at the SCRIPTS lump yourself and see if you want to have your mind blown.

I mean like, I had to spawn armor bonuses and then assign each one a different special action to execute all different scripts depending on not only which armor bonuses were spawned but also depending on which spot they spawned in. That puzzle was exhausting, but thankfully the rest of that map is simple.

FYI, I will post in here in my thread from time to time like this to give progress updates and things I'm doing/discovered. It's not to bump the thread constantly, I promise. It's to provide constant information and progress updates to those interested. Hope this is not a problem. :)

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Nevander said:

Oh man... the blue key/Soulsphere puzzle in Dark Entries was the single hardest thing I've done so far. Scripting that was a serious PITA, but I got it to work exactly like the original. You don't even wanna know how long the code is... when this thing comes out in March you can take a look at the SCRIPTS lump yourself and see if you want to have your mind blown.

I mean like, I had to spawn armor bonuses and then assign each one a different special action to execute all different scripts depending on not only which armor bonuses were spawned but also depending on which spot they spawned in. That puzzle was exhausting, but thankfully the rest of that map is simple.

FYI, I will post in here in my thread from time to time like this to give progress updates and things I'm doing/discovered. It's not to bump the thread constantly, I promise. It's to provide constant information and progress updates to those interested. Hope this is not a problem. :)


Thats what i was saying haha. And it's probably the reason why it has never been done before by the others. That's really great to hear. Did you have any difficulties with the tracers?

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Mayhem666 said:

Thats what i was saying haha. And it's probably the reason why it has never been done before by the others. That's really great to hear. Did you have any difficulties with the tracers?

Yea I noticed a lot of places in GZDoom64/BD64 where you can clearly see that the person who edited the map just completely changed something in order to make it easier to be able to get working instead of actually making it work as originally intended.

The tracers are in and fire out, but they don't chase me yet. I probably messed up my DECORATE code for it but that's a simple fix. But as far as the trap process, yes it was simple enough to do. The floating blocks will lower as normal, then fire one from each block every second at the speed they do in the original. Only the line from the starting door exit will trigger the trap like the original. You won't be in that room unable to escape tracers of death like in BD64. Seriously like every line in that room in BD64's version starts the trap, and there's like 5 blocks instead of just the two on each end.

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The soulsphere sequence in Dark Entries is also randomized so that the sequence is never the same every playthrought. Were you able to replicate that as well ? :)
Im also glad that there is finally a motivated Doom 64 TC for GZDoom. Keep it up man.

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jazzmaster9 said:

The soulsphere sequence in Dark Entries is also randomized so that the sequence is never the same every playthrought. Were you able to replicate that as well ? :)
Im also glad that there is finally a motivated Doom 64 TC for GZDoom. Keep it up man.

Indeed I was. In the original, when you press the switch, the macro moves the Soulsphere around at a specified sequence. However, the sequence that you get is always a random choice out of 5 possible outcomes (5 columns it can stop on top of).

I tested it thoroughly, every time it started at column 1, the next time it started on column 1 the sequence was always the same. The Soulsphere also always ends on the same column it started on, which is of course how you solve the puzzle.

The possible sequences are (1-5 is from the leftmost column going right):

1, 4, 2, 5, 3 - ends back on 1
2, 5, 1, 4, 3 - ends back on 2
3, 1, 4, 5, 2 - ends back on 3
4, 1, 3, 2, 5 - ends back on 4
5, 2, 4, 1, 3 - ends back on 5

I accomplished this task by using MapSpots each assigned to a different TID. Then using a script, I generate a random number from 1 to 5 which then chooses one of the above sequences at random. The rest gets... complicated lol.

And thanks, I'm glad to be working on it and since I've came this far I know I can finish it.

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Nevander said:

Indeed I was. In the original, when you press the switch, the macro moves the Soulsphere around at a specified sequence. However, the sequence that you get is always a random choice out of 5 possible outcomes (5 columns it can stop on top of).

I tested it thoroughly, every time it started at column 1, the next time it started on column 1 the sequence was always the same. The Soulsphere also always ends on the same column it started on, which is of course how you solve the puzzle.

I accomplished this task by using MapSpots each assigned to a different TID. Then using a script, I generate a random number from 1 to 5 which then chooses one of the above sequences at random. The rest gets... complicated lol.


I tried to do a similar puzzle on Innocence X1 Map 04 but I was not able to replicate the randomization. I guess I did not have the coding know-how to pull it off.

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So the other trap in Dark Entries was a piece of cake, the darts shooting across where the Plasma Rifle is. It makes me wonder why Sgt or Nightside weren't able to make it work because it was super easy to set up compared to the Soulsphere puzzle. Instead in Brutal Doom 64, it just fires out like 1000 darts at once... lol? Not even bragging, it really was that simple... whatever. Dark Entries is pretty much done, moving onto sector coloring now, then on to Blood Keep.

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Will this be 1-8-04 (or Pre-GL2.0 GZDooM) compatible or are you guys going the latest GZDOOM route and using the > code stuff (instead of TNT1 (Code here) stuff)

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XLightningStormL said:

Will this be 1-8-04 (or Pre-GL2.0 GZDooM) compatible or are you guys going the latest GZDOOM route and using the > code stuff (instead of TNT1 (Code here) stuff)


Why not use gzdoom 2.2.0?

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I like the concept, I'm looking forward to this project.

Ask Maes for his converted Doom 64 maps, he made a convertor once.

Also, if you haven't already, make sure the map pixels are square and not 5:6.

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XLightningStormL said:

Will this be 1-8-04 (or Pre-GL2.0 GZDooM) compatible or are you guys going the latest GZDOOM route and using the > code stuff (instead of TNT1 (Code here) stuff)

It should work on the older versions. I'm not using anything too new or fancy.

Blastfrog said:

Ask Maes for his converted Doom 64 maps, he made a convertor once.

Also, if you haven't already, make sure the map pixels are square and not 5:6.

Converter? Surely it only makes the maps open-able in GZDB though? Because there's no way it could make a Doom 64 map open and perform correctly in GZDoom through a converter? Regardless, I've already copied and pasted everything for the remaining maps I haven't started yet. I just need to make them all work now.

What do you mean exactly by 5:6?

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No, the converted maps are not directly usable, but it's cleaner than copy-pasting over. One thing it does is automatically blanks out the midtextures that aren't supposed to be visible.

Nevander said:

What do you mean exactly by 5:6?

I mean that by default, Doom uses pixels that are 1.2x as tall as they are wide. If you want accuracy (and I'm sure you do), you'll want to set PixelRatio to 1.0 in the MAPINFO file.

Also be aware that the weapon sprites are meant to be seen in 240 lines of resolution, not 200.

Be sure to convert actor state and script timings by scaling the durations. Doom 64 used 30 tics per second, PC Doom uses 35 tics per second. You'll want to multiply such durations by 1.16666667.

The player is 64 tall and has a viewheight of 56.

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How do you guys feel about slightly modifying certain traps or pits with lifts to get back out? Some examples are Final Outpost in the blood pit, and now the trap at the end of Blood Keep.

Personally I say it's bad map design to make inescapable pits and will aggravate the player if they fall in a trap and no way to get out. For some, it may be enough to turn them off from the game if they get mad enough (like a no death run on Nightmare and then they forget to move out of the way or just screw up in general). I know it's pissed me off on more than one occasion when I'd get stuck somewhere.

Blastfrog said:

No, the converted maps are not directly usable, but it's cleaner than copy-pasting over. One thing it does is automatically blanks out the midtextures that aren't supposed to be visible.

I mean that by default, Doom uses pixels that are 1.2x as tall as they are wide. If you want accuracy (and I'm sure you do), you'll want to set PixelRatio to 1.0 in the MAPINFO file.

Also be aware that the weapon sprites are meant to be seen in 240 lines of resolution, not 200.

Be sure to convert actor state and script timings by scaling the durations. Doom 64 used 30 tics per second, PC Doom uses 35 tics per second. You'll want to multiply such durations by 1.16666667.

The player is 64 tall and has a viewheight of 56.

Hmm. I think I'll stick to my copy/paste method. That way I know I've done everything right and nothing went wrong during the conversion. Any mistakes the maps have when copied over get fixed by me eventually during the remake process.

I didn't know about pixelratio. That's pretty cool. What all does it affect? I know it doesn't affect the player weapons on the screen. I will force scale those down with TEXTURES to remove the 20% adjustment.

As far as actor state and script timings, I am making the timings right just by putting the right tics for the delays. Or rather, getting them matched up correctly with Doom 64's original timings. It's obviously not going to be perfect no matter how much I tweak it but the maps are going to all be playable and will behave like the original.

For the actors... I don't see that as being a necessary change. I mean I can tweak them over time if I notice they do something too fast or slow. Generally PC Doom (these days) is faster paced and I kinda enjoy the slightly faster pace I've tested so far in my converted maps.

Either way, finishing the maps is priority one right now.

It's funny... today I found a thread about a Doom 64 TC to GZDoom dated back in 2012 or 2013 and most people said it wasn't worth the effort. I think they are dead wrong honestly. I'm having fun, the levels look great, and it's going to be fun as hell.

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Mind if I test for you? I can also go through the tedium of adjusting actor timing to be as accurate as possible if you'd like.

Nevander said:

How do you guys feel about slightly modifying certain traps or pits with lifts to get back out?

Not a bad idea in itself, but I'd prefer authenticity.

Nevander said:

I didn't know about pixelratio. That's pretty cool. What all does it affect?

Just the world and things in it. Nothing else is adjusted by pixelratio.

Nevander said:

As far as actor state and script timings, I am making the timings right just by putting the right tics for the delays.

As long as you're making adjustments to get the scripts to have equivalent (not the same amount of tics, but 7/6 of the original amount), it's all good.

Nevander said:

For the actors... I don't see that as being a necessary change. I mean I can tweak them over time if I notice they do something too fast or slow. Generally PC Doom (these days) is faster paced and I kinda enjoy the slightly faster pace I've tested so far in my converted maps.

I disagree, authenticity matters IMO. I don't mind the extra bits like the new maps, but the more the game can behave like Doom 64 EX does, the better.

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Blastfrog said:

I disagree, authenticity matters IMO. I don't mind the extra bits like the new maps, but the more the game can behave like Doom 64 EX does, the better.


Besides, having a faithful GZDoom port of Doom 64 could serve as a basis for mods and mapsets.

I would love to see a The Way id Did - The Midway id Did - type of project for Doom 64.

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Remaking the beginning area of Watch Your Step was fun. Thankfully, a lot of the geometry was already set up for 3D floors. Very fortunate. Looks just like the original now, better actually. In the original, there's a very thin crack where the horizontal beams connect with the other part. Fixed that. :)

EDIT: Good god the whole map is nothing but MapSpots...

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Been doing some thinking and testing for the first map of my new episode.

You start off facing the middle of The Absolution's final fight area, and witness the Mother Demon dying at the start of the level while the screen fades in (the level is a DIRECT continuation following the end of Doom 64's main game).

After the Mother Demon has died, you look around you and see the scattered bodies of the dead demons you had killed prior. Then, after a few seconds, the area will quake and walls open up, parts of the level will change. One thing that happens is an opening will be made in the wall to the north, a passageway out through a cave.

*conceptualization intensifies*

The only major concern is... what do I give the player? It's logical to think that (as far as realism goes) Doomguy would have used up all his ammo during the fight, leaving him with only some pistol rounds, thus standard pistol start.

Also, pretty much done with Watch Your Step. Starting on Spawned Fear soon.

EDIT: Updated the beta level some, I'd say huge improvement

OLD:
NEW:

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Really stoked to play this. Brutal Doom 64 is awesome, but not faithful enough in a lot of areas. Love the idea of a new episode added onto the original, too.

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Is this recreated beta level going to be a Doom 64 reimagining of TNT Evilution's Pharaoh?

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