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Nevander

[v1.5] Doom 64: Retribution

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30 minutes ago, jdagenet said:

No need to break out the dictionary,

 

You're the one who started to nitpick, and now that you're obviously wrong it's "no need to break out the dictionary". Laughable.

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1 minute ago, Voros said:

Playground is easier to handle.

Hardcore is a bitch, but not impossible.

Cat And Mouse is something else entirely.

Hardcore can get harder if you pick up the invisibility. Playground is easy as you said. And yeah, Cat and Mouse takes the cake easily

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I had a big ol' post written out about how this guy was acting all bad and icky, but it's taken so long everyone basically got around to saying what I was going to say anyways. I guess I'll keep it around anyways.


 

Spoiler

 

Whoooooo

8 minutes ago, jdagenet said:

No need to break out the dictionary, @Devalaous was only comparing Retribution to the Playstation Doom TC, which isn't even on the same level. I was pointing out that the Playstation Doom TC has earned the right of being called a "Total Conversion" because it is a total conversion.

All I'm trying to convey here is that this mod is not a faithful recreation of the classic as @Nevander tried to paint the picture as it is/was.

It really makes no difference to me as to what he does with this because I have a few ways of playing the game as I was just commanded to do just now, but to say this is faithful to the original is a blatant lie.

 

In the grand scheme of things, this mod has no real place. Everything it does has already been done by someone else a few times over. There is real no benefit of playing this mod over any other Doom 64 mod out there, unless of course you're still in denial and claim this mod is a total conversion of the original.

 

"In the grand scheme of things"? I don't remember you being an authority on how others should spend their time. And hey, buddy, maybe before you brush people off by telling them to put away their dictionaries, you should put away yours first. Because you sure like to hammer in how this isn't a TC (because it hasn't earned the right to be one in your eyes apparently) while still being completely oblivious as to what that term actually means. It's especially egregious because it's not even a hard concept to swallow, I'd have to wonder if you're really this dense or just trying to get a rise out of people. Seriously, it's just when all the original assets are replaced. That's all.

 

And also, if it makes no difference to you what he does with this mod, why are you even complaining about him saying this is faithful in the first place? It's certainly the most faithful in terms of GZDoom mods, certainly far more than GZDoom64 and BD64, which don't even bother to recreate the MAP02 blue key jape room.

 

 

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@Nevander please just take constructive criticism and discard everything else but don't quit so easily. You've been working on this for a seriously long time and it'd be a shame to lose this mod because of some people. Stay strong and keep it up. For a 1.0 it sure is damn fine. Also I'd love to see more D64-like wads using your work because as I said before, similar to your case, EX tends to crash on my PC.

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Just now, Nrg01 said:

@Nevander please just take constructive criticism and discard everything else but don't quit so easily. You've been working on this for a seriously long time and it'd be a shame to lose this mod because of some people. Stay strong and keep it up. For a 1.0 it sure is damn fine. Also I'd love to see more D64-like wads using your work because as I said before, similar to your case, EX tends to crash on my PC.

Actually, you CAN do maps with Doom 64 colored lighting. Now that GZDoom 2.4.0 is out and the bugfix of GZDoom Builder, the possibilities are endless :)

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I wonder if SgtMarkIV is going to remake Brutal Doom 64 using Nevander's work as a basis.

 

In any case, I would love to see a mod that adds the missing monsters to Retribution.

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Why remaking it using this one? I mean, there's Brutal Doom 64 out there. Seems redundant to me to add BD in this mod as a base. I prefer that this mod stay as it is.

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I'm just looking forward to modding this thing, it seems a lot more tweak-friendly than the other TCs.

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On 4/4/2017 at 0:48 AM, Nevander said:

I don't know what to say. Hate to say but nobody else yet has reported it giving poor performance. Maybe try turning down some settings or turning of dynamic lights? Idk.

I confirmed that I have the same issue with the Unmaker lagging if holding the fire button on both OpenGL and Software rendering, so OpenGL dynamic lights have nothing to do with the issue...

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8 minutes ago, Danfun64 said:

I confirmed that I have the same issue with the Unmaker lagging if holding the fire button on both OpenGL and Software rendering, so OpenGL dynamic lights have nothing to do with the issue...

Maybe the Unmaker shot has so many particles that can produce in an instant. That could be the cause of the lagging. Also it can happen with the rocket trail :)

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53 minutes ago, leodoom85 said:

Why remaking it using this one? I mean, there's Brutal Doom 64 out there. Seems redundant to me to add BD in this mod as a base. I prefer that this mod stay as it is.

Because Brutal Doom 64 uses the flawed, if not downright buggy GZDoom64 as its foundation.

 

If you are going to "brutalise" Doom 64, the least you could do is to use a faithful and much more polished GZDoom port.

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25 minutes ago, JohnnyTheWolf said:

Because Brutal Doom 64 uses the flawed, if not downright buggy GZDoom64 as its foundation.

 

If you are going to "brutalise" Doom 64, the least you could do is to use a faithful and much more polished GZDoom port.

Then Doom 64 EX is the solution for a "faithful" port, idk...don't want to bring that topic again. Sorry

 

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That's because the only way to make a faithful port of Doom64 is with a different/unique source port. Doom64 has different specs and requirements from other classic Doom games, starting off with the fact that it runs at a different speed (30Hz instead of 35Hz).

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10 hours ago, Nevander said:

You know with all this negativity it's getting harder for me to want to continue working on this.

And as I'll say, to 'that part' of the Doom community...

...Don't be like this hotheaded moron and ruin the fun for everybody else.

 

3 hours ago, jdagenet said:

In the grand scheme of things, this mod has no real place. Everything it does has already been done by someone else a few times over. There is real no benefit of playing this mod over any other Doom 64 mod out there, unless of course you're still in denial and claim this mod is a total conversion of the original.

Your opinion is the minority, thankfully.

Also, if I were in Nevander's shoes, I would be admittedly pretty annoyed too considering how much I would be busting my ass over this project.

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9 hours ago, MaxED said:

HA! Couldn't you just swallow it instead?

Shouldn't you be working on Duke Builder? How's that project going? Unlike you I will continue my project how I see fit. Why are you even still here?

 

 

9 hours ago, Devalaous said:

What I'd like to see from Retribution as it develops:

  • Additional refinement for accuracy
  • Toggleable dynamic lights/sky enhancements for the sake of options, much like the existing animation toggles
  • An "Absolution" campaign that accurately mirrors the original TC, thus putting that old thing to rest in obsolescence.
  • Projects from other teams adding onto Retribution, much like how Lost Levels was made for the PSX TC. How about Doom 1 and Doom 2 remade in the 64 style, levels full of macros and creativity that breathes much more life into those old familiar layouts, for example?

Refinement will happen over time. I don't know how I would toggle the skies. Once I bring over the Absolution maps, one could create a MAPINFO patch to reorganize the order to Absolution's order.

 

 

5 hours ago, jdagenet said:

A custom introduction, level names at the start of the level, dynamic lights, map "fixes".

I also realized even the sectors aren't correctly colored, even though the ability to do so is very well possible in GZDoom (as previously mentioned).

The intro can be skipped, level names don't affect gameplay, dynamic lights can be turned off, and the map fixes are the kind of shit that even Midway should have done to begin with. Do you honestly want unaligned textures and other OBVIOUS bugs to still be there? The point is to be accurate but also be polished. That was in the OP the entire time.

 

 

4 hours ago, jdagenet said:

In the grand scheme of things, this mod has no real place. Everything it does has already been done by someone else a few times over. There is real no benefit of playing this mod over any other Doom 64 mod out there, unless of course you're still in denial and claim this mod is a total conversion of the original.

"No real place." What lol. Let me ask you this, download and play GZDOOM64 for 5 minutes. Then play mine. DOES IT HAVE A PLACE NOW?

 

 

4 hours ago, Voros said:

I never played Cat And Mouse before, unfortunately, so I have a question:

 

Is it normal for me to get instakilled by the Cyberdemon's rocket in the very first second upon spawning?

The Cyberdemon rockets may be too fast, I was going to tweak them to be a little slower again. The slower movement of Doom 64 doesn't pair well with the Cyberdemon's fast rockets.

 

 

3 hours ago, Gifty said:

I'm just looking forward to modding this thing, it seems a lot more tweak-friendly than the other TCs.

Thanks, and that was one of my minor goals. I wanted everything to be editable and interchangeable. Modular and shit.

 

 

22 minutes ago, cyan0s1s said:

Also, if I were in Nevander's shoes, I would be admittedly pretty annoyed too considering how much I would be busting my ass over this project.

You have no idea. I'd love to see someone like jdagnet try to do it himself. He'd probably quit after starting the second map because I already did all the work the right way.

 

Now. Can we put this TC shit behind us? Good. Thank you.

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Nevander, one thing for the maps. Did you add a few secret sectors here and there?
And yes, that TC topic can go to the deepest pits of Hell :D

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Just now, leodoom85 said:

Nevander, one thing for the maps. Did you add a few secret sectors here and there?

That's actually one thing about the original that confused me, or perhaps it's an EX bug. Some maps would have like 14 secrets show up in the automap but in-game I could only find like 5. I think at one point a script bugged out and a map reported 30 something secrets. I tried to add the secret action to the sectors where it made sense in regards to the original maps' secrets. There may be a couple added or made secret that shouldn't be or maybe even some places that are missing it.

 

If you find a spot were you think it should be one or where I missed the secret action let me know.

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15 minutes ago, Nevander said:

That's actually one thing about the original that confused me, or perhaps it's an EX bug. Some maps would have like 14 secrets show up in the automap but in-game I could only find like 5. I think at one point a script bugged out and a map reported 30 something secrets. I tried to add the secret action to the sectors where it made sense in regards to the original maps' secrets. There may be a couple added or made secret that shouldn't be or maybe even some places that are missing it.

 

If you find a spot were you think it should be one or where I missed the secret action let me know.

Got it, I'll let you know after playing the whole game. I'll probably sent you a report with the bugs regarding all things.

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6 hours ago, jdagenet said:

No need to break out the dictionary, 

 

In the grand scheme of things, this mod has no real place. Everything it does has already been done by someone else a few times over.

The great TC expert has spoken. 

Remember you're TC must his seal of approval for it to a "real place" in the Doom community.

And no this not an enhancement mod whether you like it or not. Most of the things you mention does not change the base gameplay and maps.

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3 hours ago, Nevander said:

Shouldn't you be working on Duke Builder? How's that project going? Unlike you I will continue my project how I see fit. Why are you even still here?

Getting pretty hostile there. Despite @MaxED leaving the GZDoom Builder project, the thought of putting the Doom 64 colored lighting effects in your mod would probably still be just a thought if he hadn't started GZDoom Builder in the first place.

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7 minutes ago, jdagenet said:

Getting pretty hostile there. Despite @MaxED leaving the GZDoom Builder project, the thought of putting the Doom 64 colored lighting effects in your mod would probably still be just a thought if he hadn't started GZDoom Builder in the first place.

If MaxED didn't make gzdoom builder then someone else would have (and whoever made gzdoom should of added doom 64 lighting a long time ago).

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Doom 64 lighting was partly added to GZDoom a long time ago, in an experimental branch; but it didn't work right. GZDoom Builder did not exist yet at the time, by the way.

 

 

 

 

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Spoiler

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Here are some screenies of map 01 Staging Area edited from Doom 64: Retribution in "GZDoom [GEC] Version"

Step by step, Doom 64: Retribution will be taking this perspective but it'll take its time and I'm sure @Nevander will do it.

Edited by Erick194

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7 minutes ago, Erick194 said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

zlek7euf5c2842ezg.jpg

 

2d37kn65rx6186qzg.jpg

 

4kkv1przr3dsu5ozg.jpg

 

mbw7pmv098ldwrmzg.jpg

 

ewd42579tenc393zg.jpg

 

oct6llxfsls58m2zg.jpg

 

Here are some screenies of map 01 Staging Area edited from Doom 64: Retribution in "GZDoom [GEC] Version"

Step by step, Doom 64: Retribution will be taking this perspective but it'll take its time and I'm sure @Nevander will do it.

You edited the lighting of those sectors? That's the proper lighting for the original map, I believe

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Yes, it is! it is running on a modified GZDoom 1.9.1 which haven't been released yet. 

We know it as GZDoom [GEC] Master Edition.

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1 minute ago, Erick194 said:

Yes, it is! it is running on a modified GZDoom 1.9.1 which haven't been released yet. 

We know it as GZDoom [GEC] Master Edition.

Awesome, and 1.9.1 :D

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2 minutes ago, Erick194 said:

Yes, it is! it is running on a modified GZDoom 1.9.1 which haven't been released yet. 

We know it as GZDoom [GEC] Master Edition.

Does your modified version support changing the colors of a sector later with ACS? Some maps in the original do this, and sometimes it isn't a fast change either. Some spots actually interpolate between the two shades slowly.

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By the way Nevander, I'm in Outpost Omega and still haven't found secrets out of place :)

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