[v1.5] Doom 64: Retribution

[JohnnyTheWolf]

19 hours ago, leodoom85 said:

Who else can get pissed after all the time buried and missing all events while probably researching your body for bad purposes? I would kill everybody who stand before me without asking, without hesitation and without saying a single word until I say enough... 

Even BJ could bring himself to talk after spending nearly two decades in a vegetative state as a result of his failure to stop Nazi Germany from conquering the world. Heck, the very first thing to come out of his mouth was an insult directed at the German soldier he just killed with a scalpel.

 

19 hours ago, isaacpop23 said:

It may be that he started out as a normal marine, but got warped through his repeated travels to hell. Even if you discount the trip in D2, he's still been there twice, and as the story from D64 shows, it had it's affects. Also, god knows what the hell those artifacts do to your body, I'd find it hard to believe that the invulnerability spheres, invisibility spheres, and berserk packs had no extra affects that changed his demeanor to what you see in D4.

I do not think those items are supposed to be canon, even in Doom 2016.

 

I mean, why would demons leave all these convenient power-ups lying around just for you to use them against them?

Edited April 13, 2017 by JohnnyTheWolf

[isaacpop23]

Well why do you think so many of them were stashed away in secret areas? They tried to hide a lot of them away for future use, but they left too many clues as to where they were. As for the open ones, some of the demons were prideful and wanted to prove they could best him in fair combat. They were wrong.

 

 

Plus the same argument can be made for all the other items, why would the leave medkits lying around to pick up? Or ammo? Or Weapons? Unless you're gonna try and argue the existance of those as well.

 

 

...Also they're kinda stupid, it took thousands of demon deaths for them to decide "Maybe we shouldn't try and face him head on". :P 
 

[Lila Feuer]

Manual says a lot of artifacts from the other dimension were warped into our world when they invaded.

[leodoom85]

1 hour ago, cyan0s1s said:

Manual says a lot of artifacts from the other dimension were warped into our world when they invaded.

Still the demons probably found it and left them in random places...and yes, demons are stupid :D

[Nevander]

I'm about halfway done converting all monster spawns to fade ins, at least the ones you can see happen. Some I can safely leave at the normal spawn, but just without fog so you don't hear the fog noise. There's no point in fading in a monster somewhere off in the distance you'll never see unless you happen to be there in coop, but that's coop.

 

The upcoming 1.2 release will feature cleaned up automaps (so that they look good in textured display), the ability to auto skip the story so far via a CVAR so you don't even have to worry about pressing a key to skip, and any fixes along the way like the incorrectly scrolling floor on MAP01 and the Imps infighting again. I will also add some rough par times using the original formula (ignore 100%, go for the exit, round up to nearest second and add 30). Exceptions to this formula are Staging Area, Hectic, and The Absolution which will have their own par times to reflect the map type. Other maps like the titlemap and test facility will not have par times since they aren't "real" maps.

 

Then after that I will get serious on the new maps I promised. There's lots of work to do so I'll need time. I don't want to rush them and I need to carefully plan out the intertwinement of the plot. Version 1.3 of the mod will contain the Retribution episode and will contain any fixes between 1.2 and then, unless a critical bug is found and fixed in which case I will put out 1.2.1 first then comes 1.3.

[Jan]

Not sure if this is a bug or feature, I never played the real Doom64 so I don't know if it's authentic, but the light amplification visor in map02 only works for 30 seconds instead of 120 seconds as in regular Doom.

 

Edit: just checked with Doom64ex, and the visor works for 120 seconds there. It also works differently, it literally seems to amplify (but not maximize) the brightness levels and maintains colored lighting. You can still see differences in light level between sectors, and that annoying area with the red guiding triangles on the floor stays pitch black (I suppose because 0 multiplied by factor X is still 0). In Retribution, every sector simply gets rendered as fullbright, without color, like in regular PC Doom.

 

Again, I have no idea what behavior is authentic, just pointing out what I'm observing.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Jan

[Nevander]

That was an intended change, for now. In the future when I can add full gradient lighting I can re-enable the normal duration since they won't kill that style of sector lighting.

 

Right now picking one up is more annoying than helpful and makes everything fullbright white unless you have the enhanced night vision mode enabled which I suggest you do for this mod. Green is infinitely better than plain white, and even matches better with Doom 64 than white does for obvious reasons. Since I can't fix the goggles to respect the sector colors and not kill dynamic lights, the only good option left was to tone down the duration so they only stay obnoxious for a fourth of the time.

 

Really even in classic Doom you never needed 2 full minutes of them. One minute max, and Doom 64 only uses the visor in a couple places anyway so I chose to lower it to 30 seconds.

[Jan]

Ok, so it was intentional. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

I do find the visor helpful myself, makes enemies easier to spot and dark places easier to navigate, but it sure makes a level ugly, even in regular Doom. I'm even less a fan of green night vision though.

 

BTW, according to the doomwiki, map02 is the only place where the visor occurs in all of Doom64, so obviously not a big issue.

[Salt-Man Z]

Playing this right now, and it's a ton of fun. I enjoyed D64:Absolution and Console Doom back in the day; never could get into D64 EX, though, as it never "felt" right. Being able to play this in GZDoom is fantastic.

[Lila Feuer]

8 hours ago, Jan said:

BTW, according to the doomwiki, map02 is the only place where the visor occurs in all of Doom64, so obviously not a big issue.

I find that hilariously peculiar that they'd omit the light amp from all other levels in the game, forcing you to deal with the darkness like a man. It does have the coolest light amp effect out of the series though.

[leodoom85]

1 hour ago, cyan0s1s said:

I find that hilariously peculiar that they'd omit the light amp from all other levels in the game, forcing you to deal with the darkness like a man. It does have the coolest light amp effect out of the series though.

That's a cool fact actually. Just imagine if some maps have the light amp just to "kill" the darkness, for example, a light amp in Dark Citadel...it would kill the atmosphere easily...

[Gerardo194]

@Nevander do you have some ideas for the retribution episode to add up to plot? I have the Idea for the plot but I wonder if you will include the story told in the Slayer's Testaments as a part of the story or maybe you are considering taking your own liberties to make the plot. Tell me what do you think about it.

[Nevander]

On 4/14/2017 at 7:22 AM, Jan said:

BTW, according to the doomwiki, map02 is the only place where the visor occurs in all of Doom64, so obviously not a big issue.

 

On 4/14/2017 at 3:27 PM, cyan0s1s said:

I find that hilariously peculiar that they'd omit the light amp from all other levels in the game

There's actually another one in Final Outpost also in a secret area near the start.

 

 

On 4/14/2017 at 7:51 PM, Gerardo194 said:

@Nevander do you have some ideas for the retribution episode to add up to plot? I have the Idea for the plot but I wonder if you will include the story told in the Slayer's Testaments as a part of the story or maybe you are considering taking your own liberties to make the plot. Tell me what do you think about it.

Haven't thought about it much in the last few days since I'm busy fixing up the spawning for 1.2. After this is done I will catch myself up on all this lore and start constructing the way the levels will end up being made to fit all this stuff, or at least close enough to make sense in the context of DOOM 2016.

 

[Egg Boy]

Just beat this on "Watch me die" and holy shit No escape was insane. 3 Cyberdemons? in ONE MAP. Wow. I beat it without saving too! (except between levels, obviously) Final map was ridiculously easy, beat it on my first try, no problem. Overall, this was a great Doom  game. Really happy I didn't have to play it on an N64 with a controller, would've been impossible.

[Gerardo194]

12 hours ago, Nevander said:

Haven't thought about it much in the last few days since I'm busy fixing up the spawning for 1.2. After this is done I will catch myself up on all this lore and start constructing the way the levels will end up being made to fit all this stuff, or at least close enough to make sense in the context of DOOM 2016.

 

Ok, I see. As I told you, I have some ideas that make sense with the lore. If I shared this plot to you, maybe you will need to add some new sprites as well. 

I'll be writing the story if you are really interested.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Gerardo194 : Giving more information

[Nevander]

Version 1.2 is now available! Rejoice in the fade spawns! Hopefully I didn't miss one but if I did please report it and I'll fix it and put out 1.2.1 asap.

 

Download here:

http://www.moddb.com/mods/doom-64-retribution/downloads/doom-64-retribution-version-12

 

CHANGELOG:

Spoiler

Version 1.2 (4/18/17) [current]
GENERAL:
- Added version number to startup window title
- Added the ability to always auto skip the story so far intro (option in Doom 64 Features Menu)
- Regular Imps and Nightmare Imps will infight again (thought they didn't infight before)
- Created actor classes for fake keys and more to be used for certain map effects
- Cyberdemon and Mother Demon death animations in cast call improved
- Lost Souls and Pain Elementals will now crush into nothing instead of gibs
- Cacodemon and Pain Elemental movement code improved as to not drift away
- Lowered Arachnotron pain chance from 128 to 96
MAPS:
- All maps are now textured display automap friendly
- All normal maps now have rough par times, subject to adjustment if needed
- Skybox sectors and other dummy sectors hidden from the automap in textured display
- Lost Soul spawn Z-height adjusted in maps they are on so they appear floating already
- Textures around switches in various maps cleaned up and properly aligned
- All monster spawns changed to fade-ins like the original instead of teleport fog
- MAP01 Staging Area: Fixed a bug which caused the floor near Chainsaw to scroll
- MAP23 Unholy Temple: Fixed an issue which caused a script not to run after taking yellow key
- MAP29 Outpost Omega: Fixed an issue which could cause the Unmaker's script to not run if picked up too fast
- MAP30 The Lair: Fixed an issue which could cause the blue key post to not lower back down if picked up too fast
- MAP32 Hectic: Changed early plasma ammo reward from cells to cell packs
- MAP32 Hectic: Green armor trap trigger lines no longer set to front side only
- Lightning and thunder effect on MAP11, MAP12 and MAP30 is now less aggressive; MAP14 unchanged
- Many other minor line fixes and texture adjustments on all maps

 

[MFG38]

Gave this a brief look last night, and I've honestly got nothing bad to say about this so far. Excellent work!

[Jan]

Another thing I noticed: when you pick up the chainsaw for the first time, you don't automatically switch to it, like with other weapons.

 

Also, when you select weapon 1, it always switches to your fist, even if you already have a chainsaw. You have to press 1 twice to get the chainsaw. Having berserk or not doesn't make a difference.

[Nevander]

1 hour ago, Jan said:

Another thing I noticed: when you pick up the chainsaw for the first time, you don't automatically switch to it, like with other weapons.

 

Also, when you select weapon 1, it always switches to your fist, even if you already have a chainsaw. You have to press 1 twice to get the chainsaw. Having berserk or not doesn't make a difference.

I personally hate auto-switch, so the Chainsaw has been coded to not auto switch to it.

 

In the original game or at least in EX, the fist is always after the Chainsaw instead of before. So normal Doom 2 weapon order is Fist > Chainsaw > Pistol but Doom 64 EX is Chainsaw > Fist > Pistol. The order for my mod was changed to reflect Doom 64's order which is a better order IMO. I hate that the Chainsaw is between the Pistol and Fist.

[Jan]

10 hours ago, Nevander said:

I personally hate auto-switch, so the Chainsaw has been coded to not auto switch to it.

But if people don't like auto-switch, they can already toggle "neverswitchonpickup" to "true" in their gzdoom setup. Forcing the chainsaw not to auto-switch changes expected default behavior of both Doom64 and Doom to a personal preference.

 

I don't like this, because a) it surprises me and b) I think the reveal part of picking up a new weapon is important too: "You now have a chainsaw, cool!" and seeing it right in front of you as you pick it up, instead of it just making that "ca-chunk" sound like when you run over any random item you already have.

 

10 hours ago, Nevander said:

In the original game or at least in EX, the fist is always after the Chainsaw instead of before. So normal Doom 2 weapon order is Fist > Chainsaw > Pistol but Doom 64 EX is Chainsaw > Fist > Pistol. The order for my mod was changed to reflect Doom 64's order which is a better order IMO. I hate that the Chainsaw is between the Pistol and Fist.

Hm, in my Doom64 EX setup, the behavior is exactly the same as in the original Doom: if I have a chainsaw, pressing the weapon 1 key always gives me the chainsaw first. Again, expected default behavior.

 

In console Doom64, the chainsaw has its own slot so to speak, because with the limited controls, weapon switching has to be done sequentially. I don't think the sequence order should be construed as an order of preference though. In any Doom game, the chainsaw is clearly intended to be an upgrade over the fist, so if you press the 1 key for the melee weapon, you should get the upgraded one first.

 

Maybe a clear choice should be made between either a full console setup, where each weapon gets its own slot from 0-9, and where fist comes after chainsaw, or a more traditional Doom setup, where the melee weapons and shotgun/super-shotgun are overloaded under the same key and the behavior is the same as in PC Doom, i.e. chainsaw gets preference over the fist.

 

Console setup:

weapon 1: chainsaw

weapon 2: fist

weapon 3: pistol

weapon 4: shotgun

weapon 5: super shotgun

weapon 6: chaingun

weapon 7: rocket launcher

weapon 8: plasma gun

weapon 9: bfg

weapon 0: unmaker

 

vs.

 

Traditional Doom setup:

weapon 1: fist/chainsaw

weapon 2: pistol

weapon 3: shotgun/super shotgun

weapon 4: chaingun

weapon 5: rocket launcher

weapon 6: plasma gun

weapon 7: bfg/unmaker

 

Since we're playing it on a PC, my preference would be the traditional Doom setup, but perhaps this could be made a toggle in the Doom64 features menu?

[Salt-Man Z]

 

Yeah, I have to agree 100% that the fist/chainsaw implementation here drives me nuts. Because of it, I didn't even realize I had the chainsaw until I went to pick one up and it didn't disappear. Also: the only reason I'd ever want to use the fist in place of the saw is in a berserk situation, and hey, berserk autoswitches to the fist for you anyway.

 

Beyond that, I'm not sure I understand why "I hate autoswitch" gets addressed by only removing a single instance of it (just the chainsaw).

 

6 hours ago, Jan said:

Hm, in my Doom64 EX setup, the behavior is exactly the same as in the original Doom: if I have a chainsaw, pressing the weapon 1 key always gives me the chainsaw first. Again, expected default behavior.

In fact, according to the wiki, the original Doom didn't even allow you to switch to fists if you had a chainsaw (barring a beserk pack); that ability was added in source ports.

[Jan]

28 minutes ago, Salt-Man Z said:

In fact, according to the wiki, the original Doom didn't even allow you to switch to fists if you had a chainsaw (barring a beserk pack); that ability was added in source ports.

 

That's correct... I had forgotten about that.

[Nevander]

9 hours ago, Jan said:

But if people don't like auto-switch, they can already toggle "neverswitchonpickup" to "true" in their gzdoom setup. Forcing the chainsaw not to auto-switch changes expected default behavior of both Doom64 and Doom to a personal preference.

 

I don't like this, because a) it surprises me and b) I think the reveal part of picking up a new weapon is important too: "You now have a chainsaw, cool!" and seeing it right in front of you as you pick it up, instead of it just making that "ca-chunk" sound like when you run over any random item you already have.

 

Hm, in my Doom64 EX setup, the behavior is exactly the same as in the original Doom: if I have a chainsaw, pressing the weapon 1 key always gives me the chainsaw first. Again, expected default behavior.

 

In console Doom64, the chainsaw has its own slot so to speak, because with the limited controls, weapon switching has to be done sequentially. I don't think the sequence order should be construed as an order of preference though. In any Doom game, the chainsaw is clearly intended to be an upgrade over the fist, so if you press the 1 key for the melee weapon, you should get the upgraded one first.

 

Maybe a clear choice should be made between either a full console setup, where each weapon gets its own slot from 0-9, and where fist comes after chainsaw, or a more traditional Doom setup, where the melee weapons and shotgun/super-shotgun are overloaded under the same key and the behavior is the same as in PC Doom, i.e. chainsaw gets preference over the fist.

 

Since we're playing it on a PC, my preference would be the traditional Doom setup, but perhaps this could be made a toggle in the Doom64 features menu?

The pickup sound is unique to weapons, not every item. Can you seriously not tell when you've picked up a Chainsaw? The auto switch is a forced disable because like I said I personally hate it and I would imagine most people would not appreciate their weapon suddenly changing to a Chainsaw when they had out something like a Super Shotgun. It's an immediate downgrade and I've seen it screw up so many situations because the game auto switched to an inferior weapon. I just always thought of the Chainsaw being the one weapon that should never auto switch. If you really don't like this behavior I can remove the forced removed auto switch for the Chainsaw but the weapon order is unlikely to be changed.

 

The order I chose is based on the scrolling through of weapons in Doom 64 EX. When you go from weapon to weapon by scrolling with whatever keys you have assigned it starts left to right 0 through 9. Slot 0 is the Chainsaw, slot 1 is the fist, slot 2 is the pistol. This means the order of scrolling is Chainsaw > Fist > Pistol. You have it listed here as console doom setup, except the weapons still share slots which they do even in Doom 64 EX. Yes if you press your key for Fist, it goes to Chainsaw first, but I don't know how to keep the scroll order as it is but change which one gets brought up first without breaking the first thing. I also have no idea how I could make that into a toggle. I don't think it's possible unless I create a whole new player class just for that and that seems like overkill.

 

If you absolutely must have it the original way it's very easy to create a patch file to change the order.

[Salt-Man Z]

Wait, so how does the shotgun/SSG work when weapon scrolling? (I must confess to never using the mouse; I'm strictly a keyboarder.)

[leodoom85]

2 minutes ago, Salt-Man Z said:

Wait, so how does the shotgun/SSG work when weapon scrolling? (I must confess to never using the mouse; I'm strictly a keyboarder.)

Pistol <---> Shotgun <---> Super shotgun <---> Chaingun

:)

[isaacpop23]

Here, I'll even make the patch for you! It removes the no auto switch to the chainsaw, and makes it select the chainsaw instead of the fists first when hitting the keyboard.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B54PxECTuW7uTHRGeVZJYVpNcVk
 

[CyberDemonEmpress]

I just downloaded it and it's pretty awesome. I love the reload animations.

[DoodGuy]

Why are the monster sprites SO TALL?

[Voros]

1 hour ago, DoodGuy said:

Why are the monster sprites SO TALL?

I thought the same, but Doom 64 does have larger sprites than Classic Doom. Although the sprites look weird with 16:9/16:10 ratio.

[JohnnyTheWolf]

You could always say it makes them more intimidating this way.