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Nevander

[v1.5] Doom 64: Retribution

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Alright guys, bit of an update and some things I've decided to do:

 

Instead of releasing the Absolution and Outcast levels as separate PWADs, the plan now is to have those two sets in addition to the Retribution episode all part of a single cohesive package. I was thinking about how it would work once they were done as separate PWADs and you'd have to be loading 3 different files to play all the maps. I'd rather simplify the process and include them already. I don't know if other sets will get the same treatment yet, like The Reckoning or Redemption Denied; mainly because I don't know jack about them and they don't seem very popular. That doesn't mean I won't convert them though. Another reason I want to include Absolution and Outcast is because they are the most official expansions to Doom 64 to date. I will most likely include the Absolution maps and the Retribution episode together in 1.4, and Outcast will be in 1.5.

 

Speaking of Absolution, I have begun officially converting those maps and am about 30% done with Nukage Facility. The other 5 exclusive maps are also converted to UDMF and are currently unplayable though and untextured. The current plan for integration into the mod is to give them their own dedicated episode, tweaking maps individually to be balanced for episode style play. The progression will be a bit out of order:

  1. Nukage Facility as the first map
  2. Crisis as the second map
  3. Death Labs as the third map (with an added secret exit to Doom 64 Museum)
  4. Shadows Watching as the fourth
  5. Finally, Forbidden Deeper as the final map in the episode
  6. Doom 64 Museum as the secret level for gearing up for map 4 and 5 (might need some kind of balancing since you get the Unmaker and all three keys here)

I also plan to write a reorganized MAPINFO PWAD to integrate these maps into the main campaign, optional of course. They would get organized similarly to Absolution's progression, although the secret levels wouldn't change and these maps would just be "placed" into the progression. Doom 64 Museum would probably be left out of this new order since it doesn't really fit anywhere and Test Facility is basically this map on steroids.

 

I am unsure if I will be adding the Nightmare Caco or Spectre into the mod for the Absolution maps. Since I have been playing the Absolution TC to help in converting the maps (to know how they play) I find these enemies either annoying or useless. In my opinion, Doom 64's bestiary is already good enough. The Spectre is basically the same as the Nightmare Spectre and the Nightmare Caco is just a pain in the ass. It's like the Doom 64 equivalent of Quake's Spawns. I can always code them in DECORATE in their own PWAD that can change default Cacos into a RandomSpawner and what not later on.

 

The new monsters from Outcast might get added though, we'll see. I do plan to include the new textures in Outcast, I have already converted them into PNGs in the right palette and wrote TEXTURES/ANIMDEFS for them. They are ready to use, let me know if you guys want the WAD of them for other projects right now.

 

Finally in the Retribution episode I have decided on adding two new weapons for use during this episode only. Of course, that won't stop you from IDFA'ing or summoning them in the main campaign to use (which might be kinda fun). These new weapons will NOT nor NEVER be placed in the main maps to be picked up. They will ONLY be placed during the new maps. The original Doom 64 maps and "campaign" will remain faithful, unless you manually give them to yourself of course, so don't worry.

 

The guns themselves are a Nailgun made by HellCatX and the cut weapon from the old Doom 64 alpha/beta screenshots. Since this weapon was meant to be an early version of the Unmaker, I actually doubt I will make it behave like the Unmaker... that is unless I can come up with some badass human version of an Unmaker weapon. I don't want to make another powerful railgun type weapon though, the Unmaker already does that and I don't want to ruin it. The current plan is to make it a Flamethrower, but I don't really like Flamethrowers... so if anyone has suggestions on a new weapon type please don't hesitate.

 

I am adding a Nailgun because NAILGUNS. You gotta love them, and there's no doubting that Doom 64 was heavily inspired by Quake. Hell, load up Quake and I dare you to say the maps don't scream Doom 64 (or rather Doom 64 screams Quake, you know what I meant). Don't worry, I will take extreme care in making it fit in the game. This isn't going to be a quick and dirty job.

 

Whew, now some short and sweet things I added to the mod itself...

  • Added an option to disable the fade in from black on map loads
  • Added an option to disable the fade out and freeze effect on map finish
  • Added an option to disable the Berserk pack auto switch to fists
  • Added an option to toggle between the classic Doom style invulnerability screen effect or stick with the normal Doom 64 screen blend

/wall of text

 

That's all I have to say for now. I will be hunkering down and getting serious on these maps very soon. No planned release date I'm afraid, because I cannot see into the future. When I get closer I will post a possible date.

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Nailgun, chaingun, what's the difference? They're essentially the same thing.

Unless in that episode, the nailgun replaces the chaingun, I'm cool with that.

You want suggestions? Make it shoot a medium speed projectile with A_Mushroom.

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Kaiser speculated that the unused weapon was going to be a lightning gun, so you could try that and make things even more Quake-like.

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12 hours ago, Voros said:

Nailgun, chaingun, what's the difference? They're essentially the same thing.

Unless in that episode, the nailgun replaces the chaingun, I'm cool with that.

Well since the Nailgun would fire projectiles, the usefulness would be different to the likes of the Chaingun. They'd both still have uses, since I plan to make the Nailgun have higher damage but slower projectiles. Chaingun is hitscan so instant hits, but lower damage.

 

 

12 hours ago, SiFi270 said:

Kaiser speculated that the unused weapon was going to be a lightning gun, so you could try that and make things even more Quake-like.

I was considering it, but I'm not sure how I could make a good lightning gun because it has the same problem that the Unmaker does. How to make a flat and constant beam? There's no easy way to do a beam like weapon in GZDoom. Brutal Doom 64 fakes it by putting the actual beam into the sprite, which looks really odd.

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Personally, I'm against a lightning gun.

Isn't one weapon enough? Heck, I would've loved it if in Retribution, the maps only have a nailgun instead of a chaingun, implying that this nailgun is the chaingun's successor, and all that.

As for the other weapon, ask yourself this: "what feature do the other weapons lack?" The fists are useful for berserk sessions. The chainsaw is rapid fire melee weapon. The pistol will remain a pistol. The shotgun is relatively useful in most situations. The SSG can take down tough enemies in close quarters. The chaingun is rapid fire bullet weapon. The rocket launcher, obviously an explosive weapon. The plasma gun spits out at a high rate and can be considered as a successor to the chaingun, but not quite. The BFG is the BFG. The Unmaker fires 1-3 powerful red lasers/beams.

What do they all lack in general? Could that feature be the new gun?

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So the nailgun would have basically the same utility as plasma gun, except using different ammos?

 

Because the plasma gun isn't a hitscan unlike the chaingun, but does more damage and have a similar fire rate aswell.

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1 hour ago, Voros said:

What do they all lack in general? Could that feature be the new gun?

That is very much the question! Maybe a visual element would help:

 

When you see this gun, what do you think it would or should do in your opinion?

 

Prerelease_unmaker.png

 

I originally chose Flamethrower in the D64WEAPS mod because it does have a "tank" of sorts on the right side. At least, it looks like a tank of sorts to my eye. It also has a flamethrower-esque end to the gun, something you'd see on such a gun. I know for sure I want to include this gun, it belongs in Doom 64 and it needs to be done right. I don't want a second Unmaker but I'm open to a cell based attack. Gosh.. this is hard.

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Honestly though, it's looks too detailed for a Doom 64 weapons. When I first saw this weapon, it was in Brutal Doom 64's first trailer. I thought it looked strange compared to the other weapons. It seemed out of place.

It's quite a strange weapon, so it's hard to tell what it could have been made for.

It's very techno, small and elongated (like the rocket launcher). It must do something fancy and possibly fire some kind of projectile. But what that pod looking thing? A laser pointer?

Maybe this fires some kind of homing projectile?

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If you do decide to go ahead with the Outcast monsters, Threshold II already has vanilla'd versions of the Acid Demon and the Stalker. You're free to use the DECORATE if you want to save yourself a bit of work.

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The reddish tank always made me think of a flamethrower, my money is on that being its intended role. If you want to go another way, a grenade launcher of some kind would fill a hole in Doom's armory, since rockets are the only ammo type that don't have two weapons.

 

Also hey, I told you a while back I would try to do some work on polishing the weapons. I'm still slowly working on that if you're still interested!

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Nukage Facility is about 80% done!

 

18 hours ago, cyan0s1s said:

Gauss Cannon?

The only problem with attacks like this is that they'd be Unmaker 2.0 but just a different aesthetic. This weapon will no doubt be the hardest thing to do in the entire mod.

 

15 hours ago, scalliano said:

If you do decide to go ahead with the Outcast monsters, Threshold II already has vanilla'd versions of the Acid Demon and the Stalker. You're free to use the DECORATE if you want to save yourself a bit of work.

Nice. That will help if I decide to use them. Part of me wants to ignore the new monsters completely and stick with Doom 64's standard monsters. Another part is telling me to include them all. UGH!

 

11 hours ago, Gifty said:

Also hey, I told you a while back I would try to do some work on polishing the weapons. I'm still slowly working on that if you're still interested!

I am, but I don't know what I will use without seeing them completed I guess. Even if I don't use them in the main mod, it would still be nice to have as an official "Smooth Doom 64" that can be loaded to replace Retribution's arsenal.

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Maybe you could make it into a cross between a rocket-launcher and an energy weapon. Like maybe an aoe weapon that fires a little faster and doesn't hurt the player. It looks very similar to the rocket launcher, but more sci-fi

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3 hours ago, Jthom said:

Maybe you could make it into a cross between a rocket-launcher and an energy weapon. Like maybe an aoe weapon that fires a little faster and doesn't hurt the player. It looks very similar to the rocket launcher, but more sci-fi

Minus not hurting the player the Concussion Rifle from Star Wars: Dark Forces fulfills this role almost entirely, but it also behaves like a BFG in a sense too in that anything near it will get hit with tracers and set off additional explosions. So a cluster plasma rocket launcher?

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On 30/07/2017 at 8:35 AM, Nevander said:
  • Added an option to disable the fade in from black on map loads
  • Added an option to disable the fade out and freeze effect on map finish
  • Added an option to disable the Berserk pack auto switch to fists
  • Added an option to toggle between the classic Doom style invulnerability screen effect or stick with the normal Doom 64 screen blend

I'm the guy who wrote the big text at the moddb page and you can't imagine the smile that got bigger in my face as I read these lines :D
Also am I the only one whose automap doesn't show the secret areas even when found?

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I figured out how I want to balance Doom 64 Museum in normal map flow. Since you get all three Unmaker keys here for testing purposes in the TC, I needed a way to balance that for normal play in an episodic format. Since in my flow of the episode Doom 64 Museum comes after Crisis, this means you may or may not have the first upgrade. When the level loads, a check will be performed to see if you posses the upgrade already. Then, when you exit the map, if the check passed (meaning you have it), you will keep that upgrade when leaving the map. The other two will be removed. If you did not have the upgrade, all three will be removed.

 

I've also been thinking of how I want to re-organize the map flow of the original campaign for the optional Absolution map integration MAPINFO PWAD. Unlike the Absolution TC, I don't plan to mess up the flow too horribly by making Outpost Omega a normal map and making Crisis secret.

 

Here's what I have in mind so far:

  • Like the TC, Alpha Quadrant will now go to Nukage Facility, which then goes to Research Lab
  • Since Crisis is a really advanced tech map, it would come after Research Lab (this will also give you a second chance at the first Unmaker upgrade, not to mention another early chance at the Unmaker itself if you missed it in Outpost Omega from Holding Area)
  • Crisis then goes to Death Labs (which will retain the secret exit to Doom 64 Museum, and with the check for the upgrades above, will not distort the balance of the Unmaker)
  • If you took the normal exit of Death Labs, it will go to Final Outpost (and of course Doom 64 Museum would go to Final Outpost too)
  • Final Outpost of course will still go to Even Simpler
  • Now down a ways into the mapset, Burnt Offerings will now go to Shadows Watching. This makes the most sense because Burnt Offerings is the first map (not counting Hectic) with a fire sky, Unholy Temple is the next one with green fire, so logically it makes sense to me that Shadows Watching should go here (with blue fire sky, which is not used in normal Doom 64)
  • Finally, No Escape will instead go to Forbidden Deeper. Get some void action before heading off the fight the Mother Demon.

Order is not final of course, but I like it so far.

 

5 hours ago, Jthom said:

Maybe you could make it into a cross between a rocket-launcher and an energy weapon. Like maybe an aoe weapon that fires a little faster and doesn't hurt the player. It looks very similar to the rocket launcher, but more sci-fi

I made a weapon like this actually for my D!ZONE recreation map, but I don't really like the way the weapon turned out to be honest. I will probably re-do that WAD someday in UDMF glory to give it better treatment and greatly improve those guns (by the way, you guys should check that out if you haven't seen it before). If you try the link right now it is probably dead, so I need to re-upload it which I will do right now.

Edited by Nevander

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5 minutes ago, caikelm said:

I'm the guy who wrote the big text at the moddb page and you can't imagine the smile that got bigger in my face as I read these lines :D
Also am I the only one whose automap doesn't show the secret areas even when found?

Yep. Saw the suggestions and added those, the Berserk one I added because I hate the auto switch and GZDoom doesn't have an option for that by default, so I made one. :)

 

About secrets: they should be hidden on the map, it's normal. Most secrets are hidden in EX, and the maps generally have hidden flags on those lines in Doom Builder 64. Sometimes if a secret borders a visible wall, you will see part of the secret lines.

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7 minutes ago, Nevander said:

About secrets: they should be hidden on the map, it's normal. Most secrets are hidden in EX, and the maps generally have hidden flags on those lines in Doom Builder 64. Sometimes if a secret borders a visible wall, you will see part of the secret lines.

At least it's not a bug, though I'd like to know where are my previously found secrets :v

 

Hey, about the Retribution episode: It will adapt the stuff found in the Doomslayer Testaments, right? How do you plan on making the "Titan" mentioned there and, most importantly, the Praetor Suit?

 

(Last thing: any chance on the viewable demon keys on the gzdoom's alternate hud?)

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The Plasma Rifle already covers the projectile rapid fire weapon, I think you could look at later Quake games for a unique Nailgun, like Team Arena's spread Nailgun.

 

For the cut weapon, perhaps some sort of Freezegun? Can always say the Tank is full of liquid nitrogen and game logic :p.

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21 minutes ago, caikelm said:

Hey, about the Retribution episode: It will adapt the stuff found in the Doomslayer Testaments, right? How do you plan on making the "Titan" mentioned there and, most importantly, the Praetor Suit?

 

(Last thing: any chance on the viewable demon keys on the gzdoom's alternate hud?)

I plan to, yes. I wrote the plot of the episode somewhere in the thread. Back a few pages I think. As far as the Titan and Praetor Suit, I have no idea. Unless someone artistically inclined can lend a hand and make some resources to fit those based on the new DOOM, I might have to make that kind of stuff be "just in lore."

 

As far as showing the Demon Keys on the alt HUD, that can't be done as far as I know. The alt HUD is deliberately unmoddable. The only place to see them is the automap while using the Doom 64 HUD (aka statusbar view).

 

9 minutes ago, YukiHerz said:

For the cut weapon, perhaps some sort of Freezegun? Can always say the Tank is full of liquid nitrogen and game logic :p.

Good idea, but then I'd have to write new states for every monster that can be frozen and make tinted blue versions of them to be their frozen state. Starting to just lean back to the original plan of Flamethrower... lol.

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Wow this looks great!Finnaly a way to play non-brutal doom 64 in GZDoom :D

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Just now, Nevander said:

I plan to, yes. I wrote the plot of the episode somewhere in the thread. Back a few pages I think. As far as the Titan and Praetor Suit, I have no idea. Unless someone artistically inclined can lend a hand and make some resources to fit those based on the new DOOM, I might have to make that kind of stuff be "just in lore."

Well, since almost ALL of the classic doom series' story is presented in this format, I would be happy if the Titan were just a regular cyberdemon and the demon priests were arch-viles.

For the trap that the demons set for doomguy you could do something similar to Phobos Anomaly of the original Doom, with the monsters atacking before the level ends and stuff.

For the Praetor Suit: in my opinion changing the player's suit literally is not that necessary, but you could minimally change the player's behavior instead, like making it slightly faster, resistent and strong. Maybe make the health, armor and ammo glow blue, green and red like in DOOM (the praetor suit is said to have context sensitive HUD and those features can be made togglable). I don't know if the Delta V jump-boots and praetor tokens originated from the Praetor Suit or were manufactured by UAC but if they were not, you could make the suit have some features like double jump (I personally still prefer the no-jumping gameplay), barrel damage immunity or something like that (like I said, I'm fine with the "just in lore" thing :v).

 

Just now, Nevander said:

As far as showing the Demon Keys on the alt HUD, that can't be done as far as I know. The alt HUD is deliberately unmoddable. The only place to see them is the automap while using the Doom 64 HUD (aka statusbar view).

Oh, I didn't know that, sorry :'v

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20 hours ago, caikelm said:

Titan were just a regular cyberdemon and the demon priests were arch-viles.

For the trap that the demons set for doomguy you could do something similar to Phobos Anomaly of the original Doom, with the monsters atacking before the level ends and stuff.

For the Praetor Suit: in my opinion changing the player's suit literally is not that necessary, but you could minimally change the player's behavior instead, like making it slightly faster, resistent and strong.

My current idea for the Titan is a scaled up Cyberdemon with much darker skin, maybe the Cyberdemon "daddy" if you will.

 

The trap the demons set I plan to do some major scripting for a really cool sequenced event with lowering floors, earthquakes, you name it. I want to make it seem like the player is literally being buried alive.

 

I do not plan to alter any player stats, since in DOOM 2016 is when you actually upgrade it using the Argent cells. The Praetor Suit prior to upgrading it is basic, and we can assume the base speed increase and stuff is the same movement speed and stuff as in Doom 64 (once again, lore only type of interpretations).

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Retribution connects Doom 64 with Doom 2016. Then why not take inspiration from Doom 2016's weapons? Personally, they've been fun to recreate in DECORATE, such as the mobile turret triple cannon thing, the HAR's mini missile launcher, the shotgun's triple shot and grenade launcher, etc.

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Got the Nailgun coded in and I am happy with it right now. Currently it's balanced to be stronger than the Chaingun but with less ammo with a fire rate that is a bit slower than the Plasma Rifle. I don't have a fire sound picked out for it yet but the firing animation is beautiful. Remember, the Nailgun and the new mystery gun that I can't decide what to do about will only be placed into the Retribution maps, only way to get them in normal Doom 64 or any of the old expansions is to spawn them yourself or do IDFA/IDKFA. I am considering making them non-cheat weapons, which means IDFA doesn't grant them and instead must be summoned. Not sure about that though. Thoughts?

 

I am practically done with Nukage Facility and I am about 50% done with Crisis. I also wanted to mention that for the Absolution and Outcast maps, they will not be 100% identical 1:1 copies with every little detail carbon copied. The reason being is because I am finding lots of places for general improvements, mainly in regards to texturing and stuff of that nature. I also plan to make general fixes to things that Boom format can't do, thanks to UDMF and ACS. An example of that being making the Demon key in Crisis actually move across the conveyor belt and come to the player instead of just appearing after using the switch.

 

Some other things include giving Death Labs a proper gameplay makeover so that it works as a map in a progression with a normal exit that appears similarly to Even Simpler's exit. As noted before, Death Labs will still have the teleporter to Doom 64 Museum but it will be the episode's secret exit. I hope to come up with a cool method of opening that secret exit because the Death Labs layout gives me lots of choices for some fast paced switch action.

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Chiming in on the unmaker ideas. I thought it would be cool to turn it into a lightning gun similar to Quake's (In the spirit of id arsenals here) except it shoots an unrefined stream of demonic energy so it makes it look like red lightning. Instead of a function like a direct contact beam similar to Brutal Doom64's version. It can do minor damage and can temporarily stun (constant temporary flinch) monsters leaving them wide open to infighting possibilities, concentrated shock can cause monsters to gib much like a direct hit from a rocket launcher although it would be a waste of energy ammo on medium tier monsters since it's better for the utility.

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Pretty much done with Crisis. The Unmaker upgrade conveyor belt thing is really cool now. I even made it so that the path down the conveyor opens up, further opening the map up as a whole since I noticed Crisis has a lot of ways to move around the map. It also looks like an actual conveyor belt line with gates now.

 

Started and already pretty much finished my version of The Absolution TC's "Death Labs" map. It's going to kick major ass. Originally of course it's meant to be a map you go to from Doom 64 Museum to test stuff out but I've reworked it as a harder Even Simpler, with a secret exit to Doom 64 Museum. I love the layout of Death Labs so I wanted to turn it into a real map.

 

Although, I had to tweak some things that were placed on the map to make more sense as an actual level. For example, the Unmaker and all three keys were removed since you will be getting the Unmaker and the orange key on Crisis (which comes before this map). The orange upgrade was replaced with a Blursphere, the purple upgrade was replaced with a Megasphere, the cyan upgrade was replaced with an Invulnerability and finally the Unmaker was replaced with a Berserk.

 

I also removed the Chainsaw and moved the Rocket Launcher from the spawn point to where the Chainsaw was. Finally, the actual fighting starts from a switch the player must press. This lets you prepare and move around without starting a shitstorm like in the one from the old TC.

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Just now, Voros said:

Can't wait to ditch Absolution TC :)

Indeed. Playing the unique maps to convert them is a serious PITA. The worst part is that the TC doesn't let me run in a window AND be able to freely ESC out and move my mouse back to GZDB. I have to ALT+TAB every time when I'm ready to progress more or work on the map. I do room-by-room so the process is tedious but that's the same thing I did for the main maps from EX. It's just that EX didn't capture the mouse when in the escape menu.

 

Does anyone know if there's a way to fix that in the Absolution TC? Make it stop capturing the mouse even when in the menu.

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If your still looking for an idea for a cell based weapon that goes with the Nailgun in the retribution episode, I think you should make a weapon that shoots out a ball of plasma, not as big at the BFG's projectile but bigger than a plasma ball, and as soon as it lands it pops into this plasma pool that hurts enemies as they step in it. (Similar to an upgrade found in Doom 2016) Or maybe if it were to use rocket ammo.. Proximity Mine launcher, anybody? The plasma blob is still a cool idea though, and the tank in the flame thrower sprite would fit well for this too. Dunno just some ideas.

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