[v1.5] Doom 64: Retribution

[OliveTree]

1 minute ago, Nevander said:

I can enable it in the other modes too if you think it needs it.

I played through it on HNTR and thought it could use some more ammo but there was enough health for me to beat the level at a vague 10-20 percent most of the time. I ended up running out of ammo right at the end and had to run past the baron, but it was more amusing than anything.

[Gifty]

Excellent, always glad to see this mod get updated. Is there a rough changelog of what's new in 1.5?

[Antnee]

One thing that bugs me a bit:  I like the fade in when the level starts, but it's a touch too long IMO.

I forgot about the redemption denied maps- man they are so good looking but *fuck* is there a lot of backtracking.

 

I also feel like when enemies spawn in, they are "awake" far too quickly.  Is that intentional or something that can be fixed?

[A_D_M_E_R_A_L]

4 hours ago, Nevander said:

I actually added a green armor on Doomslayer because it was insanely hard without it. I can enable it in the other modes too if you think it needs it.

The Metacenter would've been more bearable and, maybe a bit enjoyable if it had AT LEAST 1 green armor. The rest of the episode isn't too terrible IMO. Good comparison I can give is Duke It Out In D.C expansion for Duke 3D: Entering Brown Water after beating the hellhole that is Top Secret (secret level of the expansion)

[hardcore_gamer]

8 hours ago, A_D_M_E_R_A_L said:

Map 1 is up and... I hate it because of no armor at all. The rest of the maps aren't too terrible at all.

 

 

I also hated map01 because it's full of cheap and annoying traps. I died so many cheap deaths on that level. At least map02 was a lot better. I haven't finished the rest.

 

EDIT: How many maps does this new episode have?

[Thenuke]

45 minutes ago, hardcore_gamer said:

How many maps does this new episode have?

 

8 maps, no secret map.

[Sylandro]

10 hours ago, A_D_M_E_R_A_L said:

Map 1 is up and... I hate it because of no armor at all. The rest of the maps aren't too terrible at all.

 

I also found the first map a tad too difficult, but that may be because I'm a bit rusty. Last time I played was when version 1.4 came out.

 

@A_D_M_E_R_A_L I liked the playthrough. Are you using custom brightmaps? My stimpacks and medikits don't glow like yours with the addon that comes with Retribution. Also, (off topic) what mods are you using in your halloween special video?

[A_D_M_E_R_A_L]

39 minutes ago, Sylandro said:

@A_D_M_E_R_A_L I liked the playthrough. Are you using custom brightmaps? My stimpacks and medikits don't glow like yours with the addon that comes with Retribution. Also, (off topic) what mods are you using in your halloween special video?

Those are the brightmaps I made that Nevander supposed to include them with this version, but he didn't (sad day). Mods used for that Halloween vid are just my EVP and some PSX Doom music.

[Sylandro]

22 minutes ago, A_D_M_E_R_A_L said:

Those are the brightmaps I made that Nevander supposed to include them with this version, but he didn't (sad day). Mods used for that Halloween vid are just my EVP and some PSX Doom music.

 

I hope @Nevander releases the brightmaps separately, or else we’ll get to see them one year from now in 1.6 :D

[Nevander]

11 hours ago, EtherBot said:

I played through it on HNTR and thought it could use some more ammo but there was enough health for me to beat the level at a vague 10-20 percent most of the time. I ended up running out of ammo right at the end and had to run past the baron, but it was more amusing than anything.

I actually did already add more ammo than was originally there to the maps in general. They were definitely not designed for pistol starts, not even a little. The Metacenter might need more as you suggest. Will take note of this and adjust the balance for later.

 

7 hours ago, Gifty said:

Excellent, always glad to see this mod get updated. Is there a rough changelog of what's new in 1.5?

Super rough log:

- Many accuracy tweaks

- 8 new maps

- Fixed HUD scaling

- Adjusted some HUD sprites

 

That doesn't look like a lot but the full changelog is damn long lol.

 

7 hours ago, Antnee said:

One thing that bugs me a bit:  I like the fade in when the level starts, but it's a touch too long IMO.
...

I also feel like when enemies spawn in, they are "awake" far too quickly.  Is that intentional or something that can be fixed?

I'll check it out in EX to see how long it is and adjust if needed.

 

They are awake right away on purpose because the original game left them invulnerable while they were still appearing and it's always felt cheap and annoying. Making it like that would be super easy, just move Thing_Activate after the the fade in finishes.

 

7 hours ago, A_D_M_E_R_A_L said:

The Metacenter would've been more bearable and, maybe a bit enjoyable if it had AT LEAST 1 green armor. The rest of the episode isn't too terrible IMO.

The Metacenter was made by a different guy than all the rest so that's why it feels different and harder. I will enable the armor in the other difficulties next update.

 

1 hour ago, Sylandro said:

I hope @Nevander releases the brightmaps separately, or else we’ll get to see them one year from now in 1.6 :D

Funny guy. I hope it doesn't take almost a full year again. There will be less to do for 1.6 in comparison, so it take that long won't assuming my PC stays working.

[Koko Ricky]

I'm a bit surprised at the lack of gradient lighting like in the original. Doesn't the Doom Builder 2 Bugfix have Doom 64-esque lighting options?

[Nevander]

1 hour ago, GoatLord said:

I'm a bit surprised at the lack of gradient lighting like in the original. Doesn't the Doom Builder 2 Bugfix have Doom 64-esque lighting options?

When I started the mod, it was not possible yet and wasn't even considered until the GEC guys came along with the effects working in a GZDoom fork. We still don't know how they did it.

 

Even after it was made, it was and still is primitive. It can't be changed during a map with ACS and it doesn't work with 3D floors. Those are serious issues. I also have no idea how they work in conjunction with absolute brightnesses, light effects, and stuff like that. So basically, it's still not that good yet.

 

I put the proper lighting on the far backburner, because it doesn't seem to be getting more advanced yet. I am saving it for a 2.0 update, with focus on overhauled lighting across ALL maps.

 

Then there's the issue of GZDoom performance on my PC. I still use 2.2.0 because I have unstable frame rates in anything higher, and anything lower won't work for the mod. Until I upgrade my hardware or a miracle happens, the lighting is stuck in dev hell for now.

 

There's your explanation as to why the lighting is still wrong.

[Antnee]

8 hours ago, GoatLord said:

I'm a bit surprised at the lack of gradient lighting like in the original. Doesn't the Doom Builder 2 Bugfix have Doom 64-esque lighting options?

 

Not trying to pile on- @Nevander answered this pretty well- but now that you've done some 64EX mapping, go try doing the same thing in GZDB.  Just try duplicating *one* room's lighting, and take note of how long it takes you.

Seriously, getting the gradients to look the same is a massive friggin headache at best, and probably not possible to get 1:1 at worst.

 

Quote

They are awake right away on purpose because the original game left them invulnerable while they were still appearing and it's always felt cheap and annoying. Making it like that would be super easy, just move Thing_Activate after the the fade in finishes.

 

I get that, but the problem becomes really apparent in the Metacenter.  If something spawns close to you, you're already damaged before you can possibly react (because they're already halfway through their attack animation before the spawn sound is even through playing)

[Koko Ricky]

I played around extensively with GZDoom's colored lighting before getting into Doom 64 mapping and, now that I think about it, yes, it is quite a hassle getting it to look 64-esque. The floor/ceiling fades and sector coloring emulate some aspects but not others. It's a significantly different approach to lighting that looks good, but isn't appropriate for getting that signature look. It would seem that the D64 engine, despite lacking many modern source port features, can do things with lighting that only the bugfix fork can allow.  

[hardcore_gamer]

Am I the only one who can't get switches to activate macros? When I select a switch surface and use the 256 action (macro 1) and the "use" activation type nothing happens when I try to use the switch. And yet if I do to same with a linedef and select the "cross" activation option then it does work. What am I doing wrong here?

 

EDIT: The switch works for some reason if I use the shootable activation type rather than use. I am not sure what is wrong here.

[Antnee]

21 minutes ago, hardcore_gamer said:

Am I the only one who can't get switches to activate macros? When I select a switch surface and use the 256 action (macro 1) and the "use" activation type nothing happens when I try to use the switch. And yet if I do to same with a linedef and select the "cross" activation option then it does work. What am I doing wrong here?

 

EDIT: The switch works for some reason if I use the shootable activation type rather than use. I am not sure what is wrong here.

 

Try using the "switch check height" flag, up top.

[hardcore_gamer]

34 minutes ago, Antnee said:

 

Try using the "switch check height" flag, up top.

 

Yea that fixed it.

 

EDIT: Is there any way to control the amount of time that passes during the "wait" command? By default it only waits until the last action is done.

Edited November 3, 2018 by hardcore_gamer

[hardcore_gamer]

Never mind this comment.

Edited November 3, 2018 by hardcore_gamer

[Antnee]

1 hour ago, hardcore_gamer said:

 

Yea that fixed it.

 

EDIT: Is there any way to control the amount of time that passes during the "wait" command? By default it only waits until the last action is done.

Yep.  You could add this after:

 

Delay(30);

 

30= 1 second

 

Also we're posting in the wrong thread

[hardcore_gamer]

4 minutes ago, Antnee said:

Yep.  You could add this after:

 

Delay(30);

 

30= 1 second

 

Also we're posting in the wrong thread

 

lmao yea I just realized that. I thought this was the community chest 64 thread lol.

[Antnee]

So now that I'm wrapping up B64, I'm going to start seriously messing around with this port- my question is, can I "reserve" a bunch of custom thing slots?  And if so, what ranges?

[Koko Ricky]

On 11/3/2018 at 5:33 PM, Antnee said:

Yep.  You could add this after:

 

Delay(30);

 

30= 1 second

 

Also we're posting in the wrong thread

Lol yeah, but I found this information very helpful for the Community Chest 64 project!

[OliveTree]

I just wanna say, some mad alchemy in the movement tweaks, weapon animation and sound effects, enemy behavior and death animation etc makes this mod VERY satisfying to play. Moreso than vanilla doom or even brutal doom imo. Having a blast with this, especially the bonus episodes.

[Nevander]

Could you guys help with something? I've just been made aware that the yellow key on MAP23 Unholy Temple fails to move to the final place it's supposed to spawn at and instead stays where it is initially placed (hidden at exit switch). Please tell me if it happens to you and what version of GZDoom you are using. Thanks.

 

EDIT: Please try this on both default compatibility mode and Doom (Strict).

 

 

10 hours ago, Antnee said:

So now that I'm wrapping up B64, I'm going to start seriously messing around with this port- my question is, can I "reserve" a bunch of custom thing slots?  And if so, what ranges?

You can use a really high range like higher than 18000 or so, since I use anything between 1 and 16000.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Nevander

[Alter]

3 hours ago, Nevander said:

Could you guys help with something? I've just been made aware that the yellow key on MAP23 Unholy Temple fails to move to the final place it's supposed to spawn at and instead stays where it is initially placed (hidden at exit switch). Please tell me if it happens to you and what version of GZDoom you are using. Thanks.

 

EDIT: Please try this on both default compatibility mode and Doom (Strict).

 

 

You can use a really high range like higher than 18000 or so, since I use anything between 1 and 16000.

Happened on 3.2.0 for me.

[Antnee]

7 hours ago, Nevander said:

Could you guys help with something? I've just been made aware that the yellow key on MAP23 Unholy Temple fails to move to the final place it's supposed to spawn at and instead stays where it is initially placed (hidden at exit switch). Please tell me if it happens to you and what version of GZDoom you are using. Thanks.

 

EDIT: Please try this on both default compatibility mode and Doom (Strict).

 

You can use a really high range like higher than 18000 or so, since I use anything between 1 and 16000.

I'll give that a test and report back.

 

So the 18000 range, that's fine, but isn't that just the editor number?  What about the Tid?  Does that matter?

[Gez]

On samedi 3 novembre 2018 at 5:41 AM, Nevander said:

Even after it was made, it was and still is primitive. It can't be changed during a map with ACS and it doesn't work with 3D floors. Those are serious issues.

Doom 64 has no ACS and no 3D floors. I'll say it again: you want further enhancements, that's what the feature suggestion forum is for.

 

On samedi 3 novembre 2018 at 5:41 AM, Nevander said:

I also have no idea how they work in conjunction with absolute brightnesses, light effects, and stuff like that. So basically, it's still not that good yet.

They're just colors. In Doom 64, dimmer light levels are achieved by simply using darker colors (so in GZDoom terms, it's actually in full brightness).

[Nevander]

2 hours ago, Gez said:

Doom 64 has no ACS and no 3D floors. I'll say it again: you want further enhancements, that's what the feature suggestion forum is for.

For the last time, I fucking know. The assumption was because GZDoom is an advanced port, someone would have already thought of this and added it the same time the colors were. I guess it's not as advanced as I thought.

 

2 hours ago, Gez said:

They're just colors. In Doom 64, dimmer light levels are achieved by simply using darker colors (so in GZDoom terms, it's actually in full brightness).

And again, I KNOW. You missed the point of my concern. A full bright sector colored by a bright color level is affected by actions like Light_Strobe in what way? It will do nothing because how can GZDoom differentiate if the colors determine the light level? This isn't Doom 64 EX.

[Antnee]

• @Gez

[Antnee]

@Gez  I think you should try to replicate the lighting of just one room from EX into GZDoom.  Nevander is right, it's not as simple as you're making it out to be.

 

(I can't delete my weird post above, sorry)