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Foebane72

Doom 64 is NOT Doom (DEBUNKED)

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Foebane72 said:

Why was it so hard for the N64 version of Doom to actually LOOK like Doom? All they've done instead is change practically EVERYTHING about what we love about Classic Doom and make it an entirely different FPS with Doom's name attached!

I look at Doom 64 and it doesn't have the detailed textures or layouts of Doom, but entirely redesigned levels that are much poorer and SIMPLER by comparison and are frankly dull.

Where is the wonderful music of Doom? All we get is this horrible dirge which isn't memorable at all.

The monsters look vaguely recognisable but I saw nothing wrong with the original graphics, so I fail to see why the changes were necessary. They're not even more highly detailed, neither!

The sound FX are almost entirely changed too, only a few sounds remain from Doom, although I don't see why any had to be changed.

I can only guess that the N64 wasn't up to rendering Doom as it SHOULD be at all, and that sacrifices had to be made. If it was a case of making it a different experience, then it was unnecessary as the Classic Doom experience is CLASSIC enough.


1) Why it should be another PSX-doom?
2) I will not say these D64 levels are simpler\poorer, they just different, as it should be. They more like Hell Revealed series. At least, because of those damn Lost Souls.
3) Why you don't like PSX-doom ambient by mr. Hodges?
4) Because you didn't read the README. That's why you don't see why those changes were so necessary.
5) They took 'em from Doom. PSX Doom. It's fairly legit, I approve that.
6) So, why you are such moron, after all?

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Count me in on the people who love Doom 64 and got into Doom thanks to the PSX and N64 Dooms.
I've always preffered the atmosphere of those games over the PC original, Hodges music and the lighting give the levels such a great atmosphere, the midis do absolutely NOTHING for me and some of the larger maps for Doom 2 are too big and boring for their own good in my opinion.

The size of the maps on the console versions are just the right size, not too big and not too small plus im glad that the PSX version cut out some of the shitty maps and added it's own great levels.

I've never been bothered by the look of the Doom 64 monsters, they certainly could of looked a hell of a lot worse.
I'm also so glad they went in their own direction on Doom 64, who the hell would just want yet ANOTHER bog standard port...

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Since Doom 64 is on everyone's mind today, does anyone remember these images released earlier this year? I'm curious, was the bulldemon the only creature that had an actual model, or did all in-game creatures have models that were scanned? And if so, were the images ever released? I recall a screenshot of a laser weapon (not the unmaker) and some aztec-like temples from an earlier version of D64 of course.



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Avoozl said:

Speaking of the Quake 64 port someone did made a mod of it for the PC Quake, but now the link is pretty much dead and the files lost. :/


Uh, really? Why would someone make a PC port of an inferior console version of a PC game?

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JohnnyTheWolf said:

Uh, really? Why would someone make a PC port of an inferior console version of a PC game?

As a quick and easy way for people to see what they missed, I guess. I mean, people ported PS1 Doom to ZDoom.

Always been kinda disappointed the exclusive secret levels in the Saturn version (which replaced the secret stages in the PC version - Ziggurat Vertigo et al) were never back-ported, myself. That treetops stage looked interesting, but man is Quake hard to play on a Saturn controller.

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Piper Maru said:

Since Doom 64 is on everyone's mind today, does anyone remember these images released earlier this year? I'm curious, was the bulldemon the only creature that had an actual model, or did all in-game creatures have models that were scanned? And if so, were the images ever released? I recall a screenshot of a laser weapon (not the unmaker) and some aztec-like temples from an earlier version of D64 of course.

http://i.imgur.com/eWrU5Ut.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/LbFIyzj.jpg


I think all enemies had clay models since the sprites look like clay.

the temple is a beta level that was never finished Nevander is making a port of doom 64 to gzdoom and will have the beta levels here's a link:https://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/91854-wip-doom-64-retribution/

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Shadow Hog said:

As a quick and easy way for people to see what they missed, I guess. I mean, people ported PS1 Doom to ZDoom.


I suppose that is true, though it makes more sense for me to port PSX Doom to PC, as it featured an unique Aubrey Hodges soundtrack, a few new levels, atmospheric lighting as well as a new enemy (two if the Nightmare Imp had not been cut from the retail version).

From what I have seen, Quake 64 does not have much to offer in comparison, aside from the Aubrey Hodges soundtrack.

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Shadow Hog said:

Always been kinda disappointed the exclusive secret levels in the Saturn version (which replaced the secret stages in the PC version - Ziggurat Vertigo et al) were never back-ported, myself.


They're very cool levels and well-made. Even the silly monster fighting arena is unexpected.

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I've always considered that Doom 64 (And the same goes specially for Doom 3) that it's just Doom taking it's premise more seriously.

The original had a "Kill em all" attitude and didn't took itself quite seriously, while Doom 64 was more suspenseful while still mantaining most of the core of the original game. IMHO doom 64 it's doom enought for me

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MinerOfWorlds said:

How is doom 4 not doom?

The point which I'm trying to make is that I believe Doom 64 is more like the original Doom's as opposed to what the OP is saying, and that I also believe even when compared to the later titles that it is a bit more like the originals, I never said Doom 4 is not Doom.

Wild Dog said:

Some people still thinking that a Doom game must be a carbon copy of Doom 2 with just better graphics.

I was never implying anything of the sort.

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MinerOfWorlds said:

I think all enemies had clay models since the sprites look like clay.


I thought that by 1997, the art of using 3D Studio models and then converting them to sprites had taken a solid foothold in the game development industry.

And AFAIK Doom 64's sprites were scaled down from actual hi-res 3D models. It would be interesting to source those models, rather than having all those independent attempts at recreating them. For one, they are a complete set (except for the monsters not found in Doom 64, of course).

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I quite like what small part of Doom 64 I've played, but in fairness, it does *feel* more like Quake than Doom. The atmosphere, tighter levels, slower run speed and fewer enemies all lend itself more to that kind of experience and less the arcade-blast-em-up angle of Doom.

It's not a bad thing though, change is good!

HIB said:

DOOM 64 is more DOOM than this new average installment. Plus Doom 64 levels are even better than Doom 2's ones.


This though? This can go do one. Doom 2016 is bad ass!

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Foebane72 said:

I can only guess that the N64 wasn't up to rendering Doom as it SHOULD be at all, and that sacrifices had to be made.


Guess again:



As for artistic direction, "unnecessary" and "ace" are not mutually exclusive. DOOM 64 is as much DOOM as any other incarnation. And it is glorious.

also PSX DOOM > all :D

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scalliano said:

Guess again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygIZoTyTygc

As for artistic direction, "unnecessary" and "ace" are not mutually exclusive. DOOM 64 is as much DOOM as any other incarnation. And it is glorious.

also PSX DOOM > all :D


Well said scalliano!

On a sidenote - I've been out of the loop lately, but is Threshold of Pain II completed?

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Piper Maru said:

Well said scalliano!

On a sidenote - I've been out of the loop lately, but is Threshold of Pain II completed?

2 days to get it finished Scalliano, you can do it! :D

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I confess that I'm not a big fan of Doom 64; I'm more of an action game fan than horror fan and Doom 64 went bigger on horror atmosphere than "RAWR! RIP AND TEAR! METAL RAGE, GRR!" atmosphere.
But even I acknowledge that Doom 64 is a Doom game.

It has virtually the same gameplay, with nearly every monster having the same hitpoints (or alternatively, the weapons do the same damage) and the same attacks, you move at ridiculous speeds.

Sure, they changed the graphics, the animations and the sounds and left out a few things like a couple of enemies and the shotgun animations that PC Doom enjoyed, but behind that it plays exactly like Doom - just has a creepier atmosphere (and more power to people who like).

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JohnnyTheWolf said:

Wait, so 64Doom managed to faithfully port the original game into a N64 cartridge?

Then how come neither Midway nor Williams were capable of doing so with Doom 64 and PSX Doom, respectively?

It was never their goal?

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I heard Midway had to cut monsters because of memory constraints. Also, Playstation Doom is fairly close to the original game, except for simplified architecture as well as some missing levels and monsters. If Doom can be faithfully recreated on Nintendo 64, then you would think the Playstation could do even better!

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JohnnyTheWolf said:

then you would think the Playstation could do even better!


Why? you would think all monsters and levels could have been on the disk but i don't think it would be better then the n64.

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JohnnyTheWolf said:

I heard Midway had to cut monsters because of memory constraints. Also, Playstation Doom is fairly close to the original game, except for simplified architecture as well as some missing levels and monsters. If Doom can be faithfully recreated on Nintendo 64, then you would think the Playstation could do even better!

Doom 64 is rendering things as true 3D polygons and is using higher resolution textures. What they couldn't fit in were all of the DOOM II monsters with those constraints in particular. Not with the vanilla constraints.

And if you think the original Doom sprites would look like anything but pure shit running around with horrible trilinear mipmap interpolation on them, I got some ocean front property in Denver I've been trying to get rid of for a long time now.

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Quasar said:

Doom 64 is rendering things as true 3D polygons and is using higher resolution textures. What they couldn't fit in were all of the DOOM II monsters with those constraints in particular. Not with the vanilla constraints.


Fair enough.

And if you think the original Doom sprites would look like anything but pure shit running around with horrible trilinear mipmap interpolation on them, I got some ocean front property in Denver I've been trying to get rid of for a long time now.


What?

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JohnnyTheWolf said:

Well, given how Playstation Doom was meant to be played on a TV screen, I do not see this as an issue.

Right but PlayStation Doom doesn't have mipmapping. Sprites are still pixelated there like they were on PC Doom. Also, the only monster missing from PSX is the arch-vile anyway, and he was cut because all his frames cannot fit into VRAM and, even if cut down somehow, would require the arch-vile to be nearly if not the only monster on the map, making it pretty pointless as it wouldn't have any use for its resurrection capabilities.

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