Noclip Documentary: DOOM Resurrected

[Edward850]

MusicallyInspired said:

The Quake example holds a bit of water. Except that the original Quake was already a mess thematically speaking. How would you make a sequel to THAT?

Actually the thing is with Quake2 is they made the game before they realised they were stuck with the name. It was only meant to be called Quake2 as a production name, however they couldn't get another name for it so they just kept Quake2.

[MusicallyInspired]

Just furthers the point that Quake doesn't really have a central focused theme.

[JohnnyTheWolf]

MusicallyInspired said:

Prey was entirely a Bethesda decision. id wasn't involved. Doom's reboot was id's call and Beth just let them do it. That's entirely different.

I did not say id was involved either.

The Quake example holds a bit of water. Except that the original Quake was already a mess thematically speaking. How would you make a sequel to THAT?

By making another game about travelling through different dimensions and battling Lovecraftian horrors? Think of Serious Sam, but actually serious and horror-themed. It does not sound so difficult to pull off. After all, Impie did it with Strange Aeons and Ukraine-based Action Forms did it with Chasm: The Rift, so I do not see why a successful game studio like id Software could not.

[Bauul]

JohnnyTheWolf said:

Return to Castle Wolfenstein did not feel like Wolfenstein in the sense that it was more of a Medal of Honor clone than a proper sequel to Wolfenstein 3d.

Woah woah woah! Stop right there Mr.

RTCW felt nothing like a Medal of Honor or other "realistic" WW2 game. You fought zombies in crypts, rode cable cars over canyons, infiltrated secret labs filled with cyber mutants, blew up nazis with rocket launchers and lightning guns, and a final boss who looked like fantasy Rob Zombie!

It felt exactly like a proper Wolfenstein sequel to me. Complex, maze type maps with fast, aggressive enemies that to beat necessitated movement as much as shooting.

[Gez]

DooM_RO said:

It can work if it's only for a few levels.

That's why I think it could be an interesting short campaign DLC.

[Chest Rockwell]

I wish they talked about the fan reciption to the game. The was the part I hoped to see the most aside from the opening.

JohnnyTheWolf said:

That is such a weak reason to scrap an entire project though, as you could easily say the same about Doom 3 and even Doom 2016.

The people at ID didnt like doom 4 1.0. What makes you think the average consumer will?

[BluePineapple72]

Exactly Mr. Cow. What I love about iD is how real they feel as people. Not many game companies actually feel like a bunch of dudes trying to make some cool shit. Other more corporate game companies try their best at making stuff that sells really week, iD however are more dudelike, an example being is that it feels like they're willing to make a decision when one guy on the team goes "dude wouldn't it be cool if..." and then WHAM they release a masterpiece. Because their company has this very human feeling to it, the games that they release feel like their hearts have been ores into it, and it certainly pays off.

Bravo iD on DOOM, I look forward seeing what you have in store for the future!

[TAPETRVE]

Bauul said:

Woah woah woah! Stop right there Mr.

RTCW felt nothing like a Medal of Honor or other "realistic" WW2 game. You fought zombies in crypts, rode cable cars over canyons, infiltrated secret labs filled with cyber mutants, blew up nazis with rocket launchers and lightning guns, and a final boss who looked like fantasy Rob Zombie!

Medal of Honor: Allied Assault wasn't even out yet when RTCW was released, and the two original PSX games are Goldeneye-like pseudo stealth shooters. So, nope. That comparison doesn't hold any water whatsoever.

[MusicallyInspired]

You've got to believe in what you're working on if it's going to be any good. If you don't, the work will suffer. I cannot think of any example where someone did something half-heartedly and it ended up being a hit. And if there are examples, they are very very few.

JohnnyTheWolf said:

I did not say id was involved either.

I know that. I was talking moreso to TAPETRVE who first mentioned the comparison.

[40oz]

Edward850 said:

Actually the thing is with Quake2 is they made the game before they realised they were stuck with the name. It was only meant to be called Quake2 as a production name, however they couldn't get another name for it so they just kept Quake2.

In the Tim Willits interview he said that the original name for Quake 2 was "Wor" I can't remember why they chose to go with Quake 2.

[Edward850]

40oz said:

In the Tim Willits interview he said that the original name for Quake 2 was "Wor" I can't remember why they chose to go with Quake 2.

Bah, right. I don't know where I got the production name thing from.

http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200708/">

http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200708/ said:

Carmack: The old story was that Quake II which has nothing to do with Quake I was going to be a completely different name, but we got fed up with getting the names rejected so we said, “Dammit, it’s Quake II. We own that trademark.”

Basically they couldn't agree on a new name that didn't already exist in some form.

[Avoozl]

Bauul said:

blew up nazis with rocket launchers

There's nothing really unrealistic about this specifically, panzerfausts were capable of killing infantry as long as thy were in close proximity to the blasts.

[Koko Ricky]

I watched all three parts and I have to say, Doom 4 1.0 was scrapped for a reason. You can argue that Doom 3 and Doom '16 got "off track," but really, they didn't. Both are thematically and visually intense games in which a lone character wipes the floor with demons, on Mars, with very little in the way of NPC interaction and cutscenes. Doom 4 1.0 was apparently far more scripted and cinematic, had a whole rag-tag group of soldiers involved, and featured a lot of visuals that seemed very 20th century, rather than futuristic. That sounds waaaay more off base than the last two Dooms. I think what id Software did was ultimately extremely brave and audacious. Moreso than the fact that Doom '16 turned out to be a pretty great product, their refusal to complete a game that would have probably sold well because they didn't think it was fan-worthy speaks volumes of their work ethic.

[JohnnyTheWolf]

Bauul said:

Woah woah woah! Stop right there Mr.

RTCW felt nothing like a Medal of Honor or other "realistic" WW2 game. You fought zombies in crypts, rode cable cars over canyons, infiltrated secret labs filled with cyber mutants, blew up nazis with rocket launchers and lightning guns, and a final boss who looked like fantasy Rob Zombie!

It felt exactly like a proper Wolfenstein sequel to me. Complex, maze type maps with fast, aggressive enemies that to beat necessitated movement as much as shooting.

Sure, you do get to fight undead monsters and mutants at some points, but there are plenty of levels where you are just fighting regular Nazis using realistic World War II arsenal and doing things that have nothing to do with the occult. So yes, I do think it felt more like Medal of Honor than Wolfenstein. The only reason the original Medal of Honor felt like Goldeneye is because it was a console release and had to work with the console limitations.

In my opinion, a "proper" sequel would have played more like Quake; no weapon reloading, no forced stealth missions, more over-the-top enemies, etc.

mistercow said:

The people at ID didnt like doom 4 1.0. What makes you think the average consumer will?

Did they? As far as I can tell, they just claimed "it did not really feel like Doom".

MusicallyInspired said:

You've got to believe in what you're working on if it's going to be any good. If you don't, the work will suffer. I cannot think of any example where someone did something half-heartedly and it ended up being a hit.

What about Quake, the game that caused John Romero to quit id Software?

GoatLord said:

I think what id Software did was ultimately extremely brave and audacious.

Playing it extremely safe by having the game be yet another remake of the original Doom and explicitly catering to a nostalgic crowd through fanservice so blatant that it comes across as just ridiculous (e.g. the Doom dolls, the hidden classic levels that look utterly terrible in the new engine, the brotastic marketing campaign, the huge emphasis on gore as if this was still a selling point in 2016) does not strike me as "brave and audacious".

Incidentally, Doom 4 would have been the "brave and audacious" option here. After all, RAGE was not exactly a hit and id Software's name is not commonly associated with modern shooters, so they would have been stepping outside their comfort zone.

[Flesh420]

Lol wut

[Man of Doom]

JohnnyTheWolf said:

Incidentally, Doom 4 would have been the "brave and audacious" option here. After all, RAGE was not exactly a hit and id Software's name is not commonly associated with modern shooters, so they would have been stepping outside their comfort zone.

Wait, so stepping outside of their comfort zone to create what would essentially be every other "spunkgargleweewee" shooter out there, just with a demon motif that most likely wouldn't appear until much later in the game? How exactly would that be "brave and audacious?"

[mammajamma]

JohnnyTheWolf said:

Playing it extremely safe by having the game be yet another remake of the original Doom and explicitly catering to a nostalgic crowd through fanservice so blatant that it comes across as just ridiculous (e.g. the Doom dolls, the hidden classic levels that look utterly terrible in the new engine, the brotastic marketing campaign, the huge emphasis on gore as if this was still a selling point in 2016) does not strike me as "brave and audacious".

One could easily make a comparison to Mortal Kombat 9 with this.

-A remake/reboot of the first three games loaded with nostalgia-laden fanservice with MK, a reboot mostly styled after the mechanics of the first two games with Doom
-A brotastic marketing campaign (MK is pretty much regarded as the "dudebro" fighter and people forget that a lot of older PC gamers (especially adventure gamers from the early 90s) despised Doom for introducing a shitload of people to PC games and developers abandoning adventure games for more action-oriented games to appeal to the new demographic)
-Both developers had a string of mediocre games beforehand and there was concern that it wouldn't live up to the hype.
-A huge emphasis on gore (MK and Doom were the poster children of the "evils" of video game violence in the 90s, plus the MK game before 9 was rated T so this was their first game in the 360/PS3 era where they could really go all out.
-Both ended up being one of the best games of their particular genre to come out that year. (MK9 was the first MK to get major play at fighting game tournaments and Doom 2016 is pretty widely regarded as the best FPS of the year.)

Nostalgia fueled games aren't necessarily bad, you know.

[PizzaGuy]

As a guitarist myself I absolutely loved the music in this game.
it's like a mix of death metal, Nu-metal and Dubstep mashed into one.
The dynamic and the way it works around everything YOU do in the game is genius.

[TAPETRVE]

What's with all the "dubstep" nonsense? There is literally not a single instance of dubstep in this game :-D .

This is your typical late 90s electro-industrial mix; pretty much what Fear Factory would sound like today if they hadn't given up on the metal part (which is also why it's more reminiscent of Quake than DOOM).

[PizzaGuy]

TAPETRVE said:

What's with all the "dubstep" nonsense? There is literally not a single instance of dubstep in this game :-D .

This is your typical late 90s electro-industrial mix; pretty much what Fear Factory would sound like today if they hadn't given up on the metal part (which is also why it's more reminiscent of Quake than DOOM).

The arrangement on some of these tracks is very reminiscent of Dubstep.
There is a 90's sound mixed up in there but not entirely so.

[Koko Ricky]

TAPETRVE said:

What's with all the "dubstep" nonsense? There is literally not a single instance of dubstep in this game :-D .

This is your typical late 90s electro-industrial mix; pretty much what Fear Factory would sound like today if they hadn't given up on the metal part (which is also why it's more reminiscent of Quake than DOOM).

There's no industrial from the 90s that sounds like Doom '16's OST. Listen to Front Line Assembly, Alien Sex Fiend, Ministry, Skinny Puppy, NIN, Marilyn Manson, etc., and you'll see the difference. Doom '16 has some definite glitch influence, which is evident in the choppy, sometimes schizophrenic use of rhythm. The complexity of the breaks and changes are signature phrasing ideas of dubstep and to a lesser extent glitch hop, even if the bass is not oscillating. There IS an a strong industrial element as well, but that's not the only thing going on, musically.

[JohnnyTheWolf]

mammajamma said:

One could easily make a comparison to Mortal Kombat 9 with this.

I generally do not play fighting games, so I cannot speak for Mortal Kombat 9's gameplay.

However, having watched its cutscenes, I can say it has at least a really engaging story with fun, likeable characters and surprising plot twists.

Both developers had a string of mediocre games beforehand and there was concern that it wouldn't live up to the hype.

I know there were plenty of mediocre, if not downright bad Mortal Kombat games, but I do not believe the same could be said about id Software games. RAGE was a disappointment, sure, but I cannot think of another one; even the divisive Doom 3 was still a considerable success, as far as I know.

Nostalgia fueled games aren't necessarily bad, you know.

When they are made by big studios with the budget, resources and connections to do better, they kind of are.

I think it speaks volumes about the state of the industry when a game like Doom 2016 gets widely regarded as the best FPS of the year...

[Jaxxoon R]

I can't be wrong, it's everyone else!

[Flesh420]

JohnnyTheWolf said:

When they are made by big studios with the budget, resources and connections to do better, they kind of are.

I think it speaks volumes about the state of the industry when a game like Doom 2016 gets widely regarded as the best FPS of the year...

So like, Marty, and stuff, have specifically stated this game was created for The Old Fans and new. They had the resources and connections to make a game for the fans, so they did.
It ain't brain science, and there's no great fucking meaning to it. They wanted to create a fun Doom game.
No one fucking cares about the state of industry, we all, for the most part, already know it's been shit for a good while, FPS-wise at least.

Some shit in Doom could've been better some shit could've been worse, it's fun regardless. If you're going to spend time writing weird paragraphs about the 'deeper meaning' of things learn how to write what you actually mean, first.
In this case there's no greater meaning. It's a new Doom game, it's fun, it did something other current games aren't doing, and it was a success.

[Chezza]

JohnnyTheWolf said:

When they are made by big studios with the budget, resources and connections to do better, they kind of are.

I think it speaks volumes about the state of the industry when a game like Doom 2016 gets widely regarded as the best FPS of the year...

Are you disappointed in the premise that they openly and focused on pandering to the fan base or more so on how they done so? Regardless the game mechanic's fluidity, art / graphics and fun over story stance is capable of being incredibly fun to Doom fans and non fans alike. Lots of focus and effort went into creating Doom 2016 as it is and the results are great (in terms of the single player and mechanics).

Don't be hating on the direction if real earnest effort was invested and the result appeased the majority of fans. The marketing was also fine imo - it expressed exactly what the Doom experience was about. Didn't pretend to be deeper than it actually was.

Doom 2016 is an example of doing strong nostalgic pandering right and gives me hope in the industry. Well except for the multiplayer element. Although I still find it very fun.

[JohnnyTheWolf]

Flesh420 said:

So like, Marty, and stuff, have specifically stated this game was created for The Old Fans and new. They had the resources and connections to make a game for the fans, so they did.

Or maybe because the last time id tried to do something vaguely different (i.e. RAGE), it did not do so well and now they are afraid of taking risks.

Chezza said:

Doom 2016 is an example of doing strong nostalgic pandering right and gives me hope in the industry.

Or just taking advantage of people's low expectations for shooters. Which, to be fair, is not quite id Software's fault in this post-Duke Nukem Forever/Aliens: Colonial Marines era, where people are (rightfully) wary of much belated sequels.

[TAPETRVE]

You act as if DNF and ACM had any imortance whatsoever. They are simply shitty games, and have been rightfully forgotten. Nobody complains about them anymore, because they are about as relevant to the decline of the shooter genre as Operation Raccoon City was to the decline of survival horror. The reason contemporary fps games are so despised is because of how the continuous popularity of modern military shooters, with their focus on whack-a-mole shooting galleries, has shaped the core mechanics of the genre - even in allegedly different games such as Bulletstorm or Serious Sam 3. Hell, even the Shadow Warrior reboot was bogged down by the inclusion of stupid ironsight aim.

[Jimmy]

Can we get all three videos of this series embedded in the OP of this thread please?

Maybe as a News Submission as well?

[VGamingJunkie]

I don't get why id was so secretive with the trailer they showed for Quakecon. If the part they showed here is any indication, it looked just as polished back then. Were they purposefully withholding it from the general public to make the press feel special?

[ChickenOrBeef]

MetroidJunkie said:

I don't get why id was so secretive with the trailer they showed for Quakecon. If the part they showed here is any indication, it looked just as polished back then. Were they purposefully withholding it from the general public to make the press feel special?

I'd say the main concern was probably hype fatigue. QuakeCon 2014 happened almost two years before DOOM eventually released. id Software just wanted to see the diehard fan reaction to know they were on the right track.