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Bad King John

Single WADs not at Map01

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No doubt asked before, but why do some single level authors position their level at other than Map 01? I've just reviewed one at Map 20, and they lost a star from me because of it. Did the author think his level is only seen at its best after playing through the 19 previous stock Doom II maps?

It's been said that it's to get a particular piece of background music, but I've seen cases where the author is clearly expert enough to incorporate any music they want into their wad - in fact the author of the one I just reviewed has done exactly that with some of his other levels.

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Even if I know how to change music, I think changing the slot is a more elegant solution since it doesn't require any additional lumps (either a midi file or a DEHACKED patch that changes the music), which also means that the filesize will be smaller.

Also, every map slot has a different feel in my opinion. I will perceive the same map differently if it's a Map17 instead of Map01. A special slot gives the level a little more character, just like the name, the sky and the soundtrack do. For example, to me it makes sense that the CHORD levels are Map2X since they are tough and hellish. Seems silly to not take advantage of that and always use the first slot.

In prboom-plus you can just write "-warp" without specifying the slot and it will take you to the first level of the pwad. So this never bothered me. Maybe other ports should incorporate this feature.

Btw, I wonder if that was Spinal Injury.

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Some map slots have special hardcoded behavior, notably boss maps and maps with secret exits. Then there's the music - the author might be able to reinclude the music for a map in a MAP01 slot, but maybe he just couldn't be bothered to do so, didn't want to increase the file size, or due to respect to copyright. Some mappers also can't (or can't be bothered to) change a map's slot after they already put it to a higher slot with an intention to put other maps before it.

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There's also the sky.
And sometimes they do it like this because they have or plan to make several wads in a series. Example: 666EPIS.WAD (he never finished it, but was planning full episode)
Use a launcher or program like wadwhat if the text file isn't clear on what level is replaced. Also sometimes they have a batch file that warps to the right level.

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Well, a reason why would a mapper place his map on a slot other that MAP01 might be the fact that the map is for the Ultimate Doom. (hehehe)

From my own experience: I was making an UDoom PWAD with a custom INTERPIC, but as there are all those animated thingies on E1-E3, I had to place it in the E4M1 slot, where the interpic is just that static gray thing. The WAD had 2 sequels that took E4M2 and E4M3, because plot matters.

Another WAD of mine was in the E3M1 slot for the music and sky.

Well sorry, I don't do Doom 2.

EDIT: yeah, I did forget to say that I also automatically enter the first map whenever playing a pwad. So I like the method of placing a dummy map in the E1M1 slot that just tells you what the actual map's slot is.

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There's also special behavior like how killing all X enemies will lower a wall as in MAP07.

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I'm releasing TNT maps in odd map numbers because one day in the distant future there may be 32 of them.

That and music/skies I can't be arsed to change myself.

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lots of good reasons in this thread. I'll also add that an author might want to include their own intermission texts, starting at 7, 11, or 20. Some folks might want to link it to the next level; I think Chris Hansen did one that ended with the opening of Evilution's Storage Facility, which was the next normal map (TNT IWAD)

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The master levels for Doom II which aren't on MAP01 are on a different slot because:

Black Tower - MAP25 (atmospheric music and sky)
Blood Sea - MAP07 (666 tag special secret)
Geryon - MAP08 (atmospheric music)
Mephisto - MAP07 (boss music and 666 tag and 667 tag triggers)
Minos - MAP05 (atmospheric music)
Nessus - MAP07 (hardcore music)
The Express Elevator To Hell - MAP15 (to link to MAP31)
Vesperas - MAP09 (good music)
Virgil - MAP03 (hellish and tense music)

That thing where you knocked down a full star just because it wasn't up to your prefrence is the most selfish thing I've ever heard.

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Bad King John said:

Did the author think his level is only seen at its best after playing through the 19 previous stock Doom II maps?


Probably not. Assuming the WAD came with an accompanying text file, as is standard (possibly mandatory?) of any idgames submission, there's a spot where the mapper notes which maps have changed. If you start up a PWAD and find that you're staring at Entryway, it's easy enough to check the text file and IDCLEV from there.

In addition to all of the above considerations, sometimes a mapper has in mind to create a map in the same style of the vanilla map it replaces. Didn't like The Chasm? Make your own! Thought Icon of Sin could've used a better layout? Go for it! As these maps are actually meant to overwrite the slot, it makes sense to use that slot. Heck, someone was recently asking specifically about E2M9 replacements, so it's not unheard of. Might even be interesting to compile maps like that into a megawad and see how it plays.

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joe-ilya said:

The master levels for Doom II which aren't on MAP01 are on a different slot because:

Black Tower - MAP25 (atmospheric music and sky)
Blood Sea - MAP07 (666 tag special secret)
Geryon - MAP08 (atmospheric music)
Mephisto - MAP07 (boss music and 666 tag and 667 tag triggers)
Minos - MAP05 (atmospheric music)
Nessus - MAP07 (hardcore music)
The Express Elevator To Hell - MAP15 (to link to MAP31)
Vesperas - MAP09 (good music)
Virgil - MAP03 (hellish and tense music)

That thing where you knocked down a full star just because it wasn't up to your prefrence is the most selfish thing I've ever heard.

Well explained - I wouldn't say it's selfish to take a star away, but more unreasonable and kind of OTT.

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joe-ilya said:

That thing where you knocked down a full star just because it wasn't up to your prefrence is the most selfish thing I've ever heard.


While kind of unusual to lower a rating based on map slots, it's not nearly as bad as people rating 0/5 in a genre they don't enjoy and writing "Only good with Russian Overkill".

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I would understand players voting 0/5 at things that aren't up to their genre, although I'd rather have them not to vote at all if that's the case.

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joe-ilya said:

That thing where you knocked down a full star just because it wasn't up to your prefrence is the most selfish thing I've ever heard.

LoL! You should get out more! I've been playing levels and reading the comments in the /idgames Archive database quite a bit lately and there are some very "selfish" commenters out there. 0/5 or 1/5 for otherwise OK levels, just because someone did not like the style, is very common, which is a shame. The system could do with some kind of meta-moderation as some other web-sites do.

Kapanyo said:

I wouldn't say it's selfish to take a star away, but more unreasonable and kind of OTT.


Having read some reasons in this thread for making a single wad at other than Map01 (although I don't find all of them compelling), I would not take a star off for that reason in future.

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I have seen several instances where authors would release one map per map slot, with the expectation that if you wanted to load all of their maps at the same time, you could.

Judas, Danzig and Mancer do this off the top of my head.

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