Vanilla Bugs and Fixes

E3M6 should be bumped to E3M5(empty placeholder map). Protox's remake of E2M3 has a secret exit and looks like an E3 map, will work fine in slot.

E3M7 and E3M9 should be swapped. E3M7 has interesting and hard layout, better for secret map. E3M9 is a really good map that should be played more, so should make it E3M7.

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Catoptromancy said:

Protox's remake of E2M3 has a secret exit and looks like an E3 map, will work fine in slot.


:( i dont like of that idea personaly...

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Protox said:

:( i dont like of that idea personaly...

I saw a secret exit, so I made a route for it. Our E3 map does not have a secret exit either.

Once we have Yukiherz's map and Protox finishes 2-3 of his edits, freedoom will be fully limit removing. Only 4-5 maps left in both wads that are not vanilla. Zok's maps will take considerable time to properly make vanilla without ruining them.

I think its a great time for a minor release.

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Catoptromancy said:

Zok's maps will take considerable time to properly make vanilla without ruining them.


Out of curiosity: Which maps did he make?

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From the top my head.
E1M5
E2M5
Map12
Map15
Map17

@cato if you do plan on converting zok maps, please do sonething about the switch hunts. There's barely any marking on what a switch. On my first playthrough, I roamed around the map for 15 minutes, after which I found out it opened the door to a room with another switch (which led to more roaming around, until I found out it opened the blue key room. And that's the first key of the map).

Point is, it requires past knowledge of the map to have some decent fun for casuals. Preferably add clues eg a door marked with yellow textures, connected to a switch with a yellow texture too.

Catoptromancy said:

E3M6 should be bumped to E3M5(empty placeholder map). Protox's remake of E2M3 has a secret exit and looks like an E3 map, will work fine in slot.

E3M7 and E3M9 should be swapped. E3M7 has interesting and hard layout, better for secret map. E3M9 is a really good map that should be played more, so should make it E3M7.

I'm actually against both statements. Whatever Protox is doing with C2M3, I'm sure he had it in mind for C2M3's slot.

E3M7 is a great climax map just before the boss map. I think it should stay there. Plus Blueworrior's music on that levels syncs very nicely.

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Catoptromancy said:

Our E3 map does not have a secret exit either.


i dindt made any E3 map, only few e2 and some e1 (i never touched in episode 3)

Edit: i probable got it wrong...

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I was just saying your map had a secret exit. Episode 3 needs a map with a secret exit.

Also we are running out of maps to fix! Maybe someone can replace the crusher maze in e2m9. Vanilla hates lots of plats. Enough crushers in there to VPO also. Sadly it must go. I know someone can come up with another devious section that replaces the crushers.

I will take on e1m7 soon. Updated Map Submissions thread also.

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The crusher room can simply be made smaller, can't it? It could just be a series of consecutive crushers in a tunnel rather than the whole room.

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http://prboom-plus.sourceforge.net/doom-plus.features.html

Crushers are apparently not plats, I was wrong. Might just be vpo there are so many crushers.

E1M6 has been posted. E1M7 is an actual boom map. Lots of boom stuff well used. Will be rough to make vanilla, but it will look and act extremely similar when done.

E1M7 also posted.

Only E2M9 is left.

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It's limit removing and has messy routes. Had boom style 6 key door routes. I converted several boom key doors to vanilla. There is only minor area skips due to new doors. It is exitable in chocorenderlimits. All VPO and other vanilla issues are solved, except for the crushers.

If someone wants to, they can figure out what to do with the routes or crushers. It would be fully vanilla without crushers.

http://www.geocities.ws/catodemos/freedoom/catoptromancy/c2m9_c1.wad

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Do you mean the leftmost area in the map?

I'll be blunt here: scrap it! Just remove the crushers, shorten the room and make something simple, like two opening monster closets when the player crosses it.

It's an absolutely shitty part in an otherwise well-playing map. I would remove it for quality reasons alone, not just for not being vanilla compatible.

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It is a secret map. I would rather some sort of creative trap or tricky area.

The 6 boom keys could perfectly replicate in vanilla with switches and triggers, though I kinda like the player having exit options at the end. There is already 2 exits in map, none of them secret. So just leaving the routes a bit broken, allows player to choose exit path.

EDIT> Either way, it is limit removing right now. Can be submitted if there is a release.

More testing:

MAP16 is limit removing. Good to go for next release.
MAP20 and MAP25 have boom stuff, will get rid of boom stuff.

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Catoptromancy said:

It is a secret map. I would rather some sort of creative trap or tricky area.

Play around with the lighting. A mazey room that's hard to see due to the constant vanishing light, and with monsters here there.

Catoptromancy said:

MAP16 is limit removing. Good to go for next release.

My favourite map :D I blame the music.

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MAP16: Vanilla Compatible. Removed a billion vertexes from dirt foot path, that is all.
http://www.geocities.ws/catodemos/freedoom/catoptromancy/map16_c1.wad

MAP20: Vanilla Compatible. Managed a time-delay blue key grab. Vanillafied the monster teleports to work almost identical to the boom version. Minor gameplay change. All stairs and teleports in outside area simplified. Midtex bridge is solid.

http://www.geocities.ws/catodemos/freedoom/catoptromancy/map20_c6.wad

Hopefully I overestimated MAP25 also.

EDIT> Nope. MAP25 is going to be rough. This is a fully boom map with well used features. It can and will be vanilla, but there will be noticeable changes. I will release a fully limited removing version, as well as a vanilla version.

So far, only the old MAP13 and MAP25 will be the only maps that needed significant changes.

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Haven't checked out the fix, but were those spectres removed? They always the block player on the broken bridge via infinitely tall actors. It's an unnecessary annoyance.

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Added a block monster line in lava. Link updated.

EDIT>
MAP25 coming along nicely, but slowly. Managing to convert the boom actions into vanilla. Luckily the only wide open area is overlooking the DM arena, so vanilla is very possible with minimal detail removal.

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Catoptromancy said:

Added a block monster line in lava. Link updated.

Much better now, looks good.

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If you plan on recording demos, can do them to show off coordinated action?

I did them myself, but they now desync :( plus, one of your demos (map08) shows off how to get the first key. That's should be considered cheating.

Maybe I'll record them again.

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Voros said:

If you plan on recording demos, can do them to show off coordinated action?


What does that mean?

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i know this question is off topic but does anybody know where i could get the pwad version of freedoom?

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Catoptromancy said:

What does that mean?

Pure action, but not the reckless kind.

Eg https://www.doomworld.com/vb/attachment.php?postid=1711399
(Note may desync as it was not recorded with latest repo iwad)

MrD!zone said:

i know this question is off topic but does anybody know where i could get the pwad version of freedoom?

0.8 and before typically had PWAD versions on release. You can get those from GitHub, and Catoptromancy's mirror. They must have ditched the concept after 0.8 though.

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MrD!zone said:

i know this question is off topic but does anybody know where i could get the pwad version of freedoom?


You can open slade, filter maps, select all, then paste into an empty wad. If you only want the maps.

Voros said:

Pure action, but not the reckless kind.


I have many maps to demo. I play safe to actually exit. Also I have been sightseeing in these new demos to check for bugs or other stuff. The faster I can exit a map, the faster we get another release done. Versions of freedoom older than 0.7 have broken and unexitable maps, not going to happen anymore.

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Voros said:

Pure action, but not the reckless kind.

Eg https://www.doomworld.com/vb/attachment.php?postid=1711399
(Note may desync as it was not recorded with latest repo iwad)

0.8 and before typically had PWAD versions on release. You can get those from GitHub, and Catoptromancy's mirror. They must have ditched the concept after 0.8 though.

ok. thank you :)

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Catoptromancy said:

I play safe to actually exit.

That's cool.

Catoptromancy said:

The faster I can exit a map, the faster we get another release done.

I'd rather not let the release be done just yet. I've updated the dehacked file to have intermission screens that should be friendly to 4:3 monitors.

And theres the help screen. Sheesh, too cluttered to be of any help really. I plan on rearranging everything in the Makefile so that it's easier to understand. If you look closely, the csawa0 sprite is barely recognisable with the background.

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Voros said:

one of your demos (map08) shows off how to get the first key. That's should be considered cheating.


My MAP08 demos no longer work, I don't think I used any tricks.

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I must be confusing myself with the repo demos and IWAD demos. I assumed you're talking about recording new demos for the IWADs' release, not recording repo demos of all maps.

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I noticed a pull request for in-game demos. We are planning(I suggested on irc) a coop and dm demo for each iwad, as well as two single player demos. In a sp, coop, dm, long sp, order. First single player demo should be casual style in a relatively easy map, with a semi-intentional death. The last single player demo should be much longer than the first in a hard map, while played fast.

It seems like a nice setup. To really demonstrate what is capable in freedoom.

Anyone can join the irc and idle around. We will eventually get to making those multiplayer demos soon. Download Choco-doom too! Whoever has the best looking demos while recording multiplayer will have their demo added to iwad.

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