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GoatLord

What do you think of nightmare mode?

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I went through the entire game on ultra violence, which was mighty challenging at times, and now I'm trying it on nightmare. I've gotta say I'm really impressed with how much more difficult it is than UV. Is it me or is the blast radius from barrels much greater in nightmare? Or maybe it just causes more damage. In either case, I sometimes have to restart an area 10-20 times before getting past it, and once I do it's incredibly satisfying. I would die sometimes five seconds in, multiple times, and then suddenly, on the verge of giving up, I would perform this incredible ballet and kick everyone's ass as though I had experienced a sudden jump in skill. I find this thrilling. It feels completely fair, because there was not a single instance where I thought to myself, "Oh, well, that's the game fucking up, not me."

At the same time, the brutality of this setting is really something. Multiple times, I've been killed in the middle of collecting health and there's nothing quite so frustrating as collapsing on the ground, surrounded by health pickups. It brings to mind face planting on top of a medikit, only to have it take up half the screen. I've also been slain numerous times while performing a glory kill, and it seems that the possessed are one of the most dangerous enemies in the game. If I get too close to an imp, he'll scratch me, but I can dance with him and eventually take care of business. But the possessed do this bitch slap that takes off some 40-60 hit points, a bit excessive if you ask me, and numerous times I was killed by them in about one second because I got a bit too close. When I get too close to stronger enemies, I usually have quite a bit more luck. Even the baron or revenant doesn't do me in that fast.

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Zemini said:

I just wish it was more than just "monsters hit harder". Found it just meh.


The monsters are already sufficiently challenging on their own. Adding difficulty such as increasing projectile frequency / speed would be a turn off and programming more advanced A.I. is very difficult.

Just imagine the possessed guards shooting twice as many projectiles while you have a shitty unmodded pistol. Ouch.

Although I would like to see a particular enemy type that works as a unit, flanking the player and strategically positioning themselves until you kill the head of the pack - then they go in blits mode and carelessly friendly fire.

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Nightmare mode is challenging alright. Part of it is strategizing when to use Glory Kills and when to simply settle for a normal kill, as well as knowing when rushing forward to collect that cluster of health packs is simply too risky of a proposition. You have to be a bit more cautious in Nightmare mode, or you'll end up dying repeatedly.

On my last Nightmare play, I managed to only die half a dozen times through the course of the game. I may soon be ready for a serious attempt at Ultra Nightmare.

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I love nightmare mode, it's become the standard feel for new doom to me. I wish there where higher difficulty levels though honestly, even on NM ammo managment isn't difficult.

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Nightmare on a controller adds to the challenge. It's funny that despite the nice feel and accuracy of a mouse, it really is less challenging that way. I've been playing more single players on a controller, but wouldn't dream of doing that on mp.

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Honestly, I cant picture how anyone plays on less than NM. It becomes easier and easier the more you play it. Sometimes, like last week I played the lazarus map and that area with the helix stone .... I REKT it with mostly just the super shotgun (non mastered). Felt so easy. And when the last patch came out with the bug that turns your NM saves into HMP, i was wondering what just happened before I realised it was on HMP lol. Werent even denting my health.

Of course, i still havent completed unm because of mistakes like death due to environment or sometimes being rusty / tired and still getting killed.

Maybe i should shut up and try a no upgrades run ....

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I have to say, nightmare is a b*cth. Any armor and health pick ups gives you no more than 30 health points, and a Possesed Scientist can do 75 damage! Also, it feels like enemies are more aggressive. Imps and Possesed soldiers seem to charge their shots more often, and so on.

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Sig said:

Nightmare on a controller adds to the challenge. It's funny that despite the nice feel and accuracy of a mouse, it really is less challenging that way. I've been playing more single players on a controller, but wouldn't dream of doing that on mp.


Yeah, I play it on a PS4 and it's exceedingly challenging. It actually feels pretty good for the most part, which surprised me, but there's still a jagged sense of movement that requires a lot of mastery to smooth out.

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DeadSimple said:

I have to say, nightmare is a b*cth. Any armor and health pick ups gives you no more than 30 health points, and a Possesed Scientist can do 75 damage! Also, it feels like enemies are more aggressive. Imps and Possesed soldiers seem to charge their shots more often, and so on.


Yes but the first 2 levels are way too hard on first try! Get past those and you will see how quickly the difficulty curve changes!

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massivefanofdoom said:

Get past those and you will see how quickly the difficulty curve changes!


I can see what you mean. After that, helmets seem less common, until you get to the Cyberdemon fight. Jesus Christ...

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DOOM is one of the few shooters that I'd argue actually should be played with a controller at least once, if only for funsies, simply because of its heritage - after all, the '90s originals were played with the arrow keys on your keyboard alone by most people, unless you were an early adopter of the available proto-m+kb control solutions.

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DeadSimple said:

I can see what you mean. After that, helmets seem less common, until you get to the Cyberdemon fight. Jesus Christ...


Helmets?

What I meant was you only have 100health/50armor for the first 2 levels, and the runes, argent cells, and praetor suit points really start piling up from level3/4 onwards.

First 2 levels, on the first try, are just too frustrating. I know the feeling. I wanted to tear my hair out too. Just stick to it.

But I'm telling you now, if you want to win at nightmare you have to get used to moving a lot. Nonstop. I used to like getting involved in tearups too 1v1, standing in one place, holding my ground biting down on my mouthpiece, strafing and shooting at an imp or a big bad hellknight. Forget it, keep moving. You'll take too much incoming damage. Once you get the super shotgun, you will 1-2 shot everything anyway.

Imagine ppl who did it on unm or no upgrades :P :P

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Nightmare does get easier the farther you're able to get through the game. once you've reached something like the ruined Argent Facility, you should be strong enough to handle the rest of the game with relative ease.

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I wish that nightmare mode was also more than just enemies hit harder. I wish that they could incorporate monster respawning like they had in the old games. That would quite a fun challenge.

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GoatLord said:

I went through the entire game on ultra violence, which was mighty challenging at times, and now I'm trying it on nightmare. I've gotta say I'm really impressed with how much more difficult it is than UV. Is it me or is the blast radius from barrels much greater in nightmare? Or maybe it just causes more damage. In either case, I sometimes have to restart an area 10-20 times before getting past it, and once I do it's incredibly satisfying. I would die sometimes five seconds in, multiple times, and then suddenly, on the verge of giving up, I would perform this incredible ballet and kick everyone's ass as though I had experienced a sudden jump in skill. I find this thrilling. It feels completely fair, because there was not a single instance where I thought to myself, "Oh, well, that's the game fucking up, not me."

At the same time, the brutality of this setting is really something. Multiple times, I've been killed in the middle of collecting health and there's nothing quite so frustrating as collapsing on the ground, surrounded by health pickups. It brings to mind face planting on top of a medikit, only to have it take up half the screen. I've also been slain numerous times while performing a glory kill, and it seems that the possessed are one of the most dangerous enemies in the game. If I get too close to an imp, he'll scratch me, but I can dance with him and eventually take care of business. But the possessed do this bitch slap that takes off some 40-60 hit points, a bit excessive if you ask me, and numerous times I was killed by them in about one second because I got a bit too close. When I get too close to stronger enemies, I usually have quite a bit more luck. Even the baron or revenant doesn't do me in that fast.


Possessed have to somehow make up for being melee only, it is nightmare mode after all. On nm, avoid
Glory kills at all cost except when you really need hp and ammo. Learn to move a lot, anf also move sideways and diagonally. Not sure about barrels doing more damage and having a higher radius, but imps and possessed dont attack faster- just do more dmg.

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The horde imps, (the ones that are more likely to run up and try and box you) do attack faster or "more frequently".

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If you play arcade mode enough, trying to get a slayer rating in all difficulties, you will see that there is a slight change in behavior in demons between them. Slight, but it's there.

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Sig said:

If you play arcade mode enough, trying to get a slayer rating in all difficulties, you will see that there is a slight change in behavior in demons between them. Slight, but it's there.


I see. Well I didnt see it, I played HMP (unintentionally) when the save game revert bug occurred and enemies to me were as fast as on NM. The damage, though, was obviously different.

Maybe until the devs confirm it, I will keep thinking it is placebo to most people.

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doom_is_great said:

I wish that nightmare mode was also more than just enemies hit harder. I wish that they could incorporate monster respawning like they had in the old games. That would quite a fun challenge.


It's not really fun in the original games, why would it be fun here?

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Also, how would that even work? Unlike the Original Doom, Doom 2016 has a limit as to how many enemies it can have onscreen at once due to limitations of consoles especially, there's a reason Snapmap is limited to 12 visible enemies at once. This is a far cry from the Original Doom where they were just flat sprites that you could pump them out in big numbers, that's why there's never really any "slaughter maps" outside of waves. Having enemies respawn, especially if you're moving forward and having other enemies spawning in, would probably burden the engine pretty damn fast.

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GoatLord said:

It's not really fun in the original games, why would it be fun here?

Nightmare respawns are fun if you are looking to speedrun classic Doom but outside of that it sucks.

Besides, Doom 2016 already forces enemies down your neck as it is.

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GoatLord said:

It's not really fun in the original games, why would it be fun here?

Because they've got to cater to masochists somehow.

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massivefanofdoom said:

Helmets?


What I meant from that was that, when you die, your helmet stays there for all who pass to see. The first level has a lot of helmets, then it kind of lightens until you get to the platforming section that leads to level 2's classic level with about 6 helmets on one platform, then it gets really low on helmets due to upgrades, better weapons, ETC., then you get to the Cyberdemon fight, and helmets are all over the place, then the numbers get progressively lower as less threats are implemented and little more than upgrades are introduced.

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Gothic Box said:

Because they've got to cater to masochists somehow.


You'd think Ultra Nightmare would take care of that, even Classic Doom didn't have the delightful self hatred of starting the ENTIRE FREAKING GAME OVER every time you die.

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DeadSimple said:

What I meant from that was that, when you die, your helmet stays there for all who pass to see. The first level has a lot of helmets, then it kind of lightens until you get to the platforming section that leads to level 2's classic level with about 6 helmets on one platform, then it gets really low on helmets due to upgrades, better weapons, ETC., then you get to the Cyberdemon fight, and helmets are all over the place, then the numbers get progressively lower as less threats are implemented and little more than upgrades are introduced.


Aren't you doing normal NM? That helmet thing is for UNM. And well, yeah. It gets overall easier as you get on through the levels. (with upgrades) The boss fights are only 3 in the game so they got to be a bit hard. And it IS nightmare :) Where have you arrived?

PS Yesterday was Sunday, so I was bored at a point and played again. ARC, lazarus, necropolis, and titan iirc. It gets tough again on NM when you are rusty!! Tho the 2 times I died, I will admit it was because I was again stationary for the most part. I like to stand, strafe and demolish, but you can't do that on nightmare, especially on UNM. Gotta keep moving and pick off stuff slowly slowly.

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MetroidJunkie said:

You'd think Ultra Nightmare would take care of that, even Classic Doom didn't have the delightful self hatred of starting the ENTIRE FREAKING GAME OVER every time you die.

That's for über-masochists. *curls into fetal position*

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