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Kaiser

PowerslaveEX Source Code Released

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Does it really need to be said? Seems kinda obvious to me.


Anyway good to see that officially made public; hopefully someone will fork it and move it forward.

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wheresthebeef said:

Have you ever said the reason why the original download was taken down?


It's complicated, but part of it was because people didn't seem to get the hint that this was a unofficial hobby/community project and instead believed it was something official. Word got around, toes got stepped on, etc, etc

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Gez said:

hopefully someone will fork it and move it forward.


Ditto. I'll take a look at this. Powerslave always was a neat game and could really be turned into something incredible with a modern sourceport.

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Kaiser said:

It's complicated, but part of it was because people didn't seem to get the hint that this was a unofficial hobby/community project and instead believed it was something official. Word got around, toes got stepped on, etc, etc


Yeah that's too damn bad. Wonder who the hell still cares about the IP?

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Cyanosis said:

Yeah that's too damn bad. Wonder who the hell still cares about the IP?


I certainly do! :D I remember playing PowerSlave on PC a lot. I used to have friends who loved Doom and Duke Nukem 3D and have never heard of PowerSlave before, so I would always recommend it to them.

I'm very hopeful to see what people can do with this source-code!

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I never had it for PSX nor did I own a Saturn but I did try the PC version a few times. The controls were so unfriendly to work with regardless of what scheme I tried that I couldn't get into it for very long sadly.

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It is a shame it didn't last long enough to see the Saturn version get ported. Granted, the PS1 version wasn't that different, but it was different enough that I kind of subtly preferred it... Bomb-jumping being a big one.

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You've probably heard about this already, but just in case (and for any other person who might be interested): someone has the Turok N64 source code!

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Night Dive already has a copy of the original Turok source code. What we don't know is if it's from the same build, however, and what else these computers may hold, including source assets.

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Question: What is the potential of utilizing Power Slave's source code, compared to what is already available with doom's source-ports? What can it do that Doom's engine can't?

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Kontra Kommando said:

Question: What is the potential of utilizing Power Slave's source code, compared to what is already available with doom's source-ports? What can it do that Doom's engine can't?

It can play Powerslave.

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Edward850 said:

Well you're in luck, there's one >right here<.


ah ha.

So a source-code is the same thing as a source-port I guess.

I assumed a source-port was another type of software that was able to process the source-code. I honestly, have no clue.

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When you have the source code, make changes and release a new version for newer hardware and operating systems, then it's a source port.

Sometimes you can release a "source port" without having access to the original source code, through reverse engineering the old game and painstakingly recreating its engine. I think Doom 64 EX is like that.

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A long while ago, a company called id Software released the source code to Doom. But it wasn't PC Doom they released, it was Linux Doom. Most people back then, just like now, did not use Linux. So to make use of that source code, they had to port it to DOS -- and when they did it, they called it a "source port". The word was coined and now is used even when you don't actually port (if you get a Windows source code and build a Windows app with it, you didn't do any porting) and sometimes even when you don't actually have the source, and the more proper term would be engine recreation.

Strife and Doom 64 are examples where it's kinda borderline between source port and engine recreation -- we don't have the source to Strife or Doom 64, but we have very similar sources (Doom, Jaguar Doom, Heretic, Hexen) and so it's possible with reverse engineering to change them into a recreation of the original engine.

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Edward850 said:

Night Dive already has a copy of the original Turok source code. What we don't know is if it's from the same build, however, and what else these computers may hold, including source assets.

I thought the version by night dive was said to be a reverse engineered N64 version since the original source code was unobtainable before now?

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Avoozl said:

I thought the version by night dive was said to be a reverse engineered N64 version since the original source code was unobtainable before now?

No. It started out that way, when Kaiser was working on it on his own. When Nightdive picked up the franchise (due to Kaiser's pre-existing work), the source code was obtained from the original developers and was used to make the port much more accurate than it was previously. As the one who worked on stuff like the scripting for the Campaigner, I can tell you it'd have been ridiculous trying to finish stuff like his logic up while squinting at MIPS assembly in IDA Pro.

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Avoozl said:

I thought the version by night dive was said to be a reverse engineered N64 version since the original source code was unobtainable before now?


PSX, it was generally considered the best version of the game.

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Spocks_Beard said:

PSX, it was generally considered the best version of the game.

What? Turok was never on the PSX. It should be evident that's what we were talking about because Night Dive have absolutely nothing to do with PowerslaveEx.

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Quasar said:

No. It started out that way, when Kaiser was working on it on his own. When Nightdive picked up the franchise (due to Kaiser's pre-existing work), the source code was obtained from the original developers and was used to make the port much more accurate than it was previously. As the one who worked on stuff like the scripting for the Campaigner, I can tell you it'd have been ridiculous trying to finish stuff like his logic up while squinting at MIPS assembly in IDA Pro.


Very interesting, I figured this wasn't 100% faithful to the original source as the enemies' reaction times seem sped up on the remaster compared to their lobotomized performance on the PC version (which in itself was a lazy port so they might of broke something).

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Edward850 said:

What? Turok was never on the PSX. It should be evident that's what we were talking about because Night Dive have absolutely nothing to do with PowerslaveEx.


I meant Powerslave, I didn't read the other replies. Sorry.

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Spocks_Beard said:

PSX, it was generally considered the best version of the game.



Referring to Powerslave, I'm not convinced of that. I've played both, and though proudly and admittedly biased, the Saturn version is slightly better in a few keys areas. Namely load time, lighting and better contrast of textures and framerate. The PSX has smoother textures, but the game looks a little dull and flat. The PSX also had a few better sound effects and of course transparency, but it's not quite at the same level this time. :)

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Gez said:

Strife and Doom 64 are examples where it's kinda borderline between source port and engine recreation -- we don't have the source to Strife or Doom 64, but we have very similar sources (Doom, Jaguar Doom, Heretic, Hexen) and so it's possible with reverse engineering to change them into a recreation of the original engine.


Im guessing that is what happened with the Blood source code? People tried to do that with Duke Nukem's eduke and tweaking of the Build engine but could never get it to be a faithful recreation?

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Bernie said:

Im guessing that is what happened with the Blood source code? People tried to do that with Duke Nukem's eduke and tweaking of the Build engine but could never get it to be a faithful recreation?

Yeah, but it's harder with Build games, because there is much less in common between titles.

What happened with Doom is that id developed a game, and then licensed the entire code to Raven and Rogue/Velocity (and Digital Café). So you've got an entire game code that you can tweak and rewrite, and there's going to be a lot of stuff that's kept without much change because it just works.

Build on the other hand was developed by mad genius Ken Silverman as mostly a renderer. You can think of it as the Unity of the 90s. There's also physics and a few other functions, but it doesn't amount to an entire game by itself: notably all the game logic (stuff like monster AI, level changes, damage handling, etc.) is not from Build and had to be developed independently. That's why you don't find Duke Nukem-style CON scripts in Blood or Witchaven for instance. It's known (see GEORGE.TXT) that the Blood developers, in particular, found the Build code (and its author) quite frustrating to work with.

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